Mess in Delhi today
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Join Date: Jun 2008
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Mess in Delhi today
Was anyone inbound or outbound from Delhi this afternoon till evening? The controller on 126.35 was a mess and sounded lost with all the diversions due to weather and traffic. It took us 3 calls to get identified and given a level when we were outbound. Almost everyone on the frequency was hopping mad including us. I only wonder what's going to happen when the monsoon strikes.
PS - Srilankan 195 was indeed nice to see your patience levels with the controller.
PS - Srilankan 195 was indeed nice to see your patience levels with the controller.
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ASR?
If you feel the need to post on here about it (i guess it was above the usual chaos that is Indian ATC) then I hope you submitted an ASR to the company?
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I really don't see anything extraordinary in this situation. This is par for the course when dealing with Indian ATC. And this when AI and KF are flying with curtailed skeds. Not expecting anything different during this monsoon either.
If you are new here, you have to get used to it. Only two tones on Indian RT, rude and panic. Although, to be fair, there are some good guys dispersed all over the system. But on average, they barely make it through the day without shouting or losing the plot.
Enjoy.
If you are new here, you have to get used to it. Only two tones on Indian RT, rude and panic. Although, to be fair, there are some good guys dispersed all over the system. But on average, they barely make it through the day without shouting or losing the plot.
Enjoy.
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With 40 departures and 36 arrivals and the airport being as good as closed what were you expecting?
The airplanes weren't able to get in because of windshear during approach at both 28/10 as well as 29/11...
The ATC guys did a great job as per me.
The airplanes weren't able to get in because of windshear during approach at both 28/10 as well as 29/11...
The ATC guys did a great job as per me.
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For those who complain about Indian ATC.. Try flying into any Saudi Airports.
Was once cleared direct to final approach fix of a major international airport 160 miles away, descent at pilot discretion,cleared for the approach and when established was cleared to contact the tower!! (I would have appreciated a landing clearance and taxi to the gate as well))
Taking off from the same airport. Just off the runway at 400 ft got a TA with a military traffic at 1000 feet crossing right to left !!
Was once cleared direct to final approach fix of a major international airport 160 miles away, descent at pilot discretion,cleared for the approach and when established was cleared to contact the tower!! (I would have appreciated a landing clearance and taxi to the gate as well))
Taking off from the same airport. Just off the runway at 400 ft got a TA with a military traffic at 1000 feet crossing right to left !!
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DEL come a long way, still many miles to go. Some controllers used to be down right rude. Much improved these days; no longer talk to you like HM in prep school. One particular lady though, absolutely top of the heap; music to my 'years'. Cool, calm and crystal clear!! Indeed therapeutic, especially during stormy arrivals.
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GE90-115B: Hahah! Nice one!
Was running simulations for New Doha Aiport some weeks ago and when it got busy for the controller he issued the same clearance:
"Cleared ILS 16L. Decend own discretion. Call me established..."
Haha, But was not as extreme as yours. Was around 60miles out
Was running simulations for New Doha Aiport some weeks ago and when it got busy for the controller he issued the same clearance:
"Cleared ILS 16L. Decend own discretion. Call me established..."
Haha, But was not as extreme as yours. Was around 60miles out
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Was once cleared direct to final approach fix of a major international airport 160 miles away, descent at pilot discretion,cleared for the approach and when established was cleared to contact the tower!
Chennai
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Some of the problem is the ATC but a big problem is all the non standard RT in use and basically the use of busy RT channels like a CB radio.
There is a big problem already of frequency congestion, without everyone "hey Captain, happy landing captain"
Thank god they are now starting to use CPDLC on some routes!
There is a big problem already of frequency congestion, without everyone "hey Captain, happy landing captain"
Thank god they are now starting to use CPDLC on some routes!
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Chennai ATC for sure seems far more professional, only I hope they would be able to maintain with the kind of density Delhi has. Presently they handle only around a third of the volume delhi gets. PT6A makes a very valid point. Can't we desist from using VHF for pleasantries; and its not just Good Morning Captain, Happy Landing Captain, which is bad enough... folks just carry on..... Dont we have enough avenues to network...Send the guy a box of choclates if you wish but kindly spare us the needless. Use 123.45 if you must...even there ICAO Annex 10 states that “123.45 Mhz shall be designated for use as an Air-to-Air communications channel to enable aircraft engaged in flights over remote and oceanic areas, out of range of VHF ground stations, to exchange necessary operational information and to facilitate the resolution of operational problems“. Like all ICAO documents, this is a recommendation, and local laws would prevail, but the point I am making, this too should be kept free for relays etc...
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Flying in Riyadh two years ago was a bit of an adventure. We were inbound from the south east, BA from the Northwest and another from the another jet from the Northeast. One CB giving off natures wonder some 30 miles to the East… with ETAs some 7 minutes apart. The controller was truly at sea with dealing with three aircraft at once and the ominous CB to the East. Truly on edge to borderline panic in his voice. Would not respond to RT calls from all of us requesting our respective sequence. I contacted Tower to see if he could help sort out the mess. Finally got it all sorted out. Two had to hold until one landed with the remaining holding until the second landed. I was glad to be in overtime that month.
Yep... I have to agree. Chennai gets my vote too!
Bangalore does a pretty good job too. Hyderabad tends to keep one high from the North expecting a 17 degree descent profile
for runway 09R at minimum clean speed.
Yep... I have to agree. Chennai gets my vote too!
Bangalore does a pretty good job too. Hyderabad tends to keep one high from the North expecting a 17 degree descent profile for runway 09R at minimum clean speed.
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I fail to see the problem. I've seen better. Direct the IAF from ~500nm out. Also seen direct the airport ~800nm out. What's the problem?
Try this..
Tower: XXX cleared for immediate take off behind saudia (B777) from intersection.
Me: Sir, unable to accept your clearance due wake turbulence separation requirement. (we were medium)
Tower: Uhhh .. (some chat in the background) followed by no response.
Me: Tower did u copy ?
Tower: Ok I know wake turbulence ok .. you are cleared for takeoff immediately when clear of the wake turbulence !!!
? Me: Cleared for take off immediately when clear of the wake turbulence
Usually airports in this region are alright with dubai being the best. But sometimes the arrival in dubai is so tight that we feel a bit of wake from the preceding aircraft especially during peak arrival times and always have to stay a 100 feet above the assigned altitude during vectors on approach.
I have not flown in India yet and cant wait to fly there and as many of you have quoted, even I ve heard chennai is the best. I was recently talking to an Approach controller based out of chennai and he says the problem in chennai especially when the runway in use is 25, is the non availability of rapid exit taxi way or a suitable exit from the runway as a result he has to give extra track miles between simultaneous arrivals.
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Happens everywhere...OMDB cleared to take-off just as the 380 is rotating down the runway...bollocking when i didn't...KDTW yelled at for crossing a runway..(still parked on the stand)...spend a few days in any busy ATC facility and imagine yourself trying to retire off a job like that....no thanks!! Never had anything different in India than anywhere else...well.....BOM-HF... but I wouldn't call that an ATC facility anyway...
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ironbutt57 .. agree its a pretty nerve wracking job..
Also for those who dont know here is a bit of info about Bombay HF..
The guys that you talk to on Bombay/Mumbai HF are not Air Traffic Controllers themselves. They just relay our position reports to VHF Enroute controllers and pass on any message from them to us (pilots). Dont ask me why this is done.. I Dont Know..
So next time you dont get a direct to some where dont scold that guy.. after all he s just the relay dude.
Also for those who dont know here is a bit of info about Bombay HF..
The guys that you talk to on Bombay/Mumbai HF are not Air Traffic Controllers themselves. They just relay our position reports to VHF Enroute controllers and pass on any message from them to us (pilots). Dont ask me why this is done.. I Dont Know..
So next time you dont get a direct to some where dont scold that guy.. after all he s just the relay dude.
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Clear as a bell on Delhi arrival !!
Could not agree with you more. Flying into Delhi is not a particularly happy occasion at the best of times but getting in when one of the runways is closed or there has just been a runway change or there is weather, you need to have an efficient controller on the other end of the airwaves. There is one particular lady who is a master at handling all the traffic efficiently and calmly. Never have I heard her get upset or give a call that needs a 'say again'. There should be a way for pilots to give some kind of an award to the ones who make life for aviators a little better !!
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Give the Indian ATC a break..
Guys give the Indian ATC a break. These guys were not trained to handle such exponential rise in Air Traffic. Given what they re trained for and what they handle definitely needs some appreciation. Yes there definitely is some short coming especially if the ATC could think a bit more logical then just behaving like robots it would ease things a bit. Also to give these guys a bit of credit, Indian ATCO are probably one of the lowest paid in the world!! A comparison of Approach Controller's pay in Middle East or Western World to Delhi or Mumbai would be a shocking 1/10 th of the pay.. Am sure an approach controller would make no more than 1000 - 1200 US (INR 50,000 - 70,000) a month !!
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The actual ATCO's are only part of the problem, the lack of flow control and other tactical options are another.
Why does the Government of India not look to bring in a company to help them run the ATC system? Like what the UAE did?
Why does the Government of India not look to bring in a company to help them run the ATC system? Like what the UAE did?