Writ plea against engaging foreign pilots in India ...
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I hear and believe, from a reliable contact in India, the CVR's are regularly downloaded as a matter of course.
This information contained there in, can end up anywhere. Determined probably by the highest bidder!
I really dont know what is the most amazing. The fact the crews are eavesdropped on, or the India aviation community rolling over and taking this sort of rubbish.
Yes, India the great.
This information contained there in, can end up anywhere. Determined probably by the highest bidder!
I really dont know what is the most amazing. The fact the crews are eavesdropped on, or the India aviation community rolling over and taking this sort of rubbish.
Yes, India the great.
Last edited by doubleu-anker; 25th Jun 2010 at 01:23.
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mob mentality
these days esp after mangalore crash people seem to think it is open day on india bashing . i thought this was a proffesional pilots forum but very little proffesionalism seemm to be shown here . mods who seem to be active elswhere are turning a total blind eye to abuse thead creep beyond belief .
expats and others need to understand that civil aviation in india dates back to the 1930s. indain airlines (the airline) was putting 250 hr cpl holders in the right seat of boeing 737s since they were launched . SAFELY. it depends on the training they get . and let me tell you from personal experince is that most problem fos today are from just logging hours at some FIRST world school somewehere rather than world class academies like IGRUA in india. india has a safety record( READ the statistics )which is good if not the best . TOTALLY manned by indians till the aviation boom of the 90s when a mutual need of money and pilots led to a flood of pilots in india.
expats tell me which country does not try to keep the foriegners out . especially the ignorant ones who think they are gods gift .
jimmygill my compliments on holdin the fort against the kind of morons who seem to be here .
mods ..u seem to be very active elsewhere int his thread we have rectal orifices calling indians babboons and u are sleeping ?? shame
let me also state that indai has a LOT of problems with corruption and bureaucracy and so on but not any more than any developing country . in fact less than most . ask pilots who have flown in china.India needs to deal with all her problems by people suggesting specifics and beieve me gradually specifics are being implemented .BUT by and large given her constraints a booming SAFE aviation scenario which so many people seem to want to share but spit on simultaenously. pathetic. even more pathetic are the disgruntled sacked and disgraced guys of whom i suspect toptup is one. of course most of the rabble posting here i doubt are fit to be called professional pilots .
before the flak arrrives i dont propose to debate the issue with people who seem to be beneath contempt .
cheers
NB excuse lack of typing skills and caps . ....helmet , door!!!!!!
expats and others need to understand that civil aviation in india dates back to the 1930s. indain airlines (the airline) was putting 250 hr cpl holders in the right seat of boeing 737s since they were launched . SAFELY. it depends on the training they get . and let me tell you from personal experince is that most problem fos today are from just logging hours at some FIRST world school somewehere rather than world class academies like IGRUA in india. india has a safety record( READ the statistics )which is good if not the best . TOTALLY manned by indians till the aviation boom of the 90s when a mutual need of money and pilots led to a flood of pilots in india.
expats tell me which country does not try to keep the foriegners out . especially the ignorant ones who think they are gods gift . jimmygill my compliments on holdin the fort against the kind of morons who seem to be here .
mods ..u seem to be very active elsewhere int his thread we have rectal orifices calling indians babboons and u are sleeping ?? shame
let me also state that indai has a LOT of problems with corruption and bureaucracy and so on but not any more than any developing country . in fact less than most . ask pilots who have flown in china.India needs to deal with all her problems by people suggesting specifics and beieve me gradually specifics are being implemented .BUT by and large given her constraints a booming SAFE aviation scenario which so many people seem to want to share but spit on simultaenously. pathetic. even more pathetic are the disgruntled sacked and disgraced guys of whom i suspect toptup is one. of course most of the rabble posting here i doubt are fit to be called professional pilots .
before the flak arrrives i dont propose to debate the issue with people who seem to be beneath contempt .
cheers
NB excuse lack of typing skills and caps . ....helmet , door!!!!!!
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Before you go can you post a link to these statistics? I've done a quick google and can't find much.
Before seeing any statistics I'd like to add that India's fleet is still quite small on a global scale (about 450 airframes???) so it doesn't need many incidents to skew the statistics towards the less safe side whether you look at incidents per flying hour or per x amount of flights flown.
Before seeing any statistics I'd like to add that India's fleet is still quite small on a global scale (about 450 airframes???) so it doesn't need many incidents to skew the statistics towards the less safe side whether you look at incidents per flying hour or per x amount of flights flown.
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The Petition.
The simple reason for the petition is not flight safety, but jobs. Make it difficult for the expats - they will leave - more jobs for the locals - hurrah 
. The fact is that the amount of proof of... that you have to submit before coming here as a foreigner is staggering (because all foreign documents are considered falsified) So now DGCA shall check the same (probably falsified) papers once more. Top that with a local Class 1 + a JAA/FAA Class 1 because JAA/FAA still want their guys to take a medical with a JAA/FAA approved aviation physician or the "mother" license (and hence the FATA) will run out! Great plan.....and of course, coming from the Union, it goes into the "Politics and Lip Service" file; no different from TROTW.
But please, do not for one nanosec claim or even think this has anything to do with Flight Safety. Flight Safety starts with good CRM (none-existing here as defined by TROTW), good Airmanship Training (look that up), solid aviation knowledge (you don`t get that at Joe`s pilot factory in MIA) before type rating onto a pax jet, plus an extensive (min 6 mth) OPS course before getting into the right seat. Ad to that a functional ATC environment with pilot discipline and safe airports (BOM is the most risky airport of more than 200 major airports that I have experienced). Ask any of the nightslipping foreign carrier`s pilots about their background (or elect to stay in denial).
I write this because I am concerned, not because I want to point any fingers - except at DGCA who allow Indian planes to be manned with pilots not up to Industry Standards, locals or expats. We cannot have F/Os who come within seconds of a mid-air plane breakup because they cannot find the yoke in front of them, or F/Os who cannot bear upon themselves to give the off-par Captain proper warning or take over control .
The problem has to do with the Great Gold Rush. From stockholders to wannabe pilots everyone see an oportunity to make it quick and easy, and yes....nobody`s taking time to do more than minimum required. I know of 1 (one) Indian colleague who has used his waiting time for a job on aviation related studies; how many of you hi-squakers have done more than minimum...honestly??
Of course the experience requirement should be same for all, and of course a medical from some 3rd world Bolongaqland should be scrutinised, but look inside instead of being so defensive. Indian aviation has more accidents in the making, and the new proposals will not improve the situation a bit.
And now for a Monson question: If your radar picks up a cell at 30NM while in 0.5dg down tilt, what is the altitude of the cell, when you fly at FL290?? (So far, none of my co-pilots knows . Do you?......Yes. it is relevant.)
. The fact is that the amount of proof of... that you have to submit before coming here as a foreigner is staggering (because all foreign documents are considered falsified) So now DGCA shall check the same (probably falsified) papers once more. Top that with a local Class 1 + a JAA/FAA Class 1 because JAA/FAA still want their guys to take a medical with a JAA/FAA approved aviation physician or the "mother" license (and hence the FATA) will run out! Great plan.....and of course, coming from the Union, it goes into the "Politics and Lip Service" file; no different from TROTW.But please, do not for one nanosec claim or even think this has anything to do with Flight Safety. Flight Safety starts with good CRM (none-existing here as defined by TROTW), good Airmanship Training (look that up), solid aviation knowledge (you don`t get that at Joe`s pilot factory in MIA) before type rating onto a pax jet, plus an extensive (min 6 mth) OPS course before getting into the right seat. Ad to that a functional ATC environment with pilot discipline and safe airports (BOM is the most risky airport of more than 200 major airports that I have experienced). Ask any of the nightslipping foreign carrier`s pilots about their background (or elect to stay in denial).
I write this because I am concerned, not because I want to point any fingers - except at DGCA who allow Indian planes to be manned with pilots not up to Industry Standards, locals or expats. We cannot have F/Os who come within seconds of a mid-air plane breakup because they cannot find the yoke in front of them, or F/Os who cannot bear upon themselves to give the off-par Captain proper warning or take over control .
The problem has to do with the Great Gold Rush. From stockholders to wannabe pilots everyone see an oportunity to make it quick and easy, and yes....nobody`s taking time to do more than minimum required. I know of 1 (one) Indian colleague who has used his waiting time for a job on aviation related studies; how many of you hi-squakers have done more than minimum...honestly??
Of course the experience requirement should be same for all, and of course a medical from some 3rd world Bolongaqland should be scrutinised, but look inside instead of being so defensive. Indian aviation has more accidents in the making, and the new proposals will not improve the situation a bit.
And now for a Monson question: If your radar picks up a cell at 30NM while in 0.5dg down tilt, what is the altitude of the cell, when you fly at FL290?? (So far, none of my co-pilots knows . Do you?......Yes. it is relevant.)
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Expat
I have been reading this BS for a while.I worked in India as an Expat.I went to India because I could not find work in US.During my time in India I have come across many low timed pilots .Many of them have completed the CPL/IR/ME from US,Australia,Newzeland,UK,etc.They have taken by the airlines and gone for Type in Toulouse,Madrid etc.Thye have done the IOEs and have been released on line.
I was glad to fly with many of them.They were very sharp,they knew the MCDU,they knew the RT,they knew how things work in Aviation in India.Thye were allways wanting to learn,asking many questions,and doing all the right things as far as I am concerned.Many of them flew PF once they have been cleared by the DGCA.They did make command decesions to operate the aircraft safely.They flew from A to B safely.
I was very impressed with many of my co pilots . As an expat I allways new that I am in India for as long as the industry need me.In that time as an experienced pilot my job was also to pass on the knowledge and experience I have learned in my career to my fellow co pilots so that they will become a good aviators and pilots as they gain experience.
I strongly disagree to many of these bashings on co pilots regarding there ability to fly safely.
India till the start of private airlines in the 1990s allways had the co pilots come through the same schools and flying clubs around the country many of them finished the CPL not even had there multi engine rating went straight in to the cockpit of jets.They flew the old Pushpaks,152 etc.They learned it in the right seat of a jet.Most of them made it to be a safe good capts who are in the late 50s and early 60s.
So its not right to say that all Indias pilots are bad.I have come across many who have worked with me over the years from the India who has flown with Air India. many are Damn well good pilots.So for the young and old expat or not what makes a good pilots is His own ability and hardwork and standards.
Yes you will come across a few who are not up to it.That happens not only in India it happens in US also so to blame all of the young 250 hrs pilots not been able to fly is not the rightway.
As expats tell me honestly will you allow an Indian Citizen to fly for say Air china,British airways,Luftansa,Qantas,swiss,Finnair................
The answer for that would be No....Yes I have seen a few working with airlines in USA But they are American Citizens.
Now for the part that say some guys are not up to the STD a lot of blame can go to my fellow counrty men who has trained them in the initial days......
so please stop this BS and try to give back to the country who has given you a job in your hard times by helping the young pilots to learn and grow.
All the best for all the fellow pilots in India FLY SAFE.
Have an open mind ,learn,learn and more and more
Good luck
Viking
I was glad to fly with many of them.They were very sharp,they knew the MCDU,they knew the RT,they knew how things work in Aviation in India.Thye were allways wanting to learn,asking many questions,and doing all the right things as far as I am concerned.Many of them flew PF once they have been cleared by the DGCA.They did make command decesions to operate the aircraft safely.They flew from A to B safely.
I was very impressed with many of my co pilots . As an expat I allways new that I am in India for as long as the industry need me.In that time as an experienced pilot my job was also to pass on the knowledge and experience I have learned in my career to my fellow co pilots so that they will become a good aviators and pilots as they gain experience.
I strongly disagree to many of these bashings on co pilots regarding there ability to fly safely.
India till the start of private airlines in the 1990s allways had the co pilots come through the same schools and flying clubs around the country many of them finished the CPL not even had there multi engine rating went straight in to the cockpit of jets.They flew the old Pushpaks,152 etc.They learned it in the right seat of a jet.Most of them made it to be a safe good capts who are in the late 50s and early 60s.
So its not right to say that all Indias pilots are bad.I have come across many who have worked with me over the years from the India who has flown with Air India. many are Damn well good pilots.So for the young and old expat or not what makes a good pilots is His own ability and hardwork and standards.
Yes you will come across a few who are not up to it.That happens not only in India it happens in US also so to blame all of the young 250 hrs pilots not been able to fly is not the rightway.
As expats tell me honestly will you allow an Indian Citizen to fly for say Air china,British airways,Luftansa,Qantas,swiss,Finnair................
The answer for that would be No....Yes I have seen a few working with airlines in USA But they are American Citizens.
Now for the part that say some guys are not up to the STD a lot of blame can go to my fellow counrty men who has trained them in the initial days......
so please stop this BS and try to give back to the country who has given you a job in your hard times by helping the young pilots to learn and grow.
All the best for all the fellow pilots in India FLY SAFE.
Have an open mind ,learn,learn and more and more
Good luck
Viking
