job for fresh CPL holder
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Tailwind you really don't get it do you...
nobody here is criticising your skills or your training. I will speak for myself here but EVERY pilot that i know did the same as you and I !!! We all started with training to get a CPL, all earned in honesty and all logged on the hours ! I have now 2000 hours and I will agree that today the only thing I don't have to get into an airline is money ... so far everyone i asked asks me to pay for a type rating !! I have a mountain of loans to pay back to my bank for the next coming years !!! Guess what... i'm not the only one !
Now, good for you if you have 50000US to spend !!! (although type rating doesn't cost that much). But as a fresh pilot, how in the world can you come on a site like that and compare some pilots with prostitutes !!! man please read carefully, so far in all the answers that pilots gave to you, NONE criticised the fact that you are ready to pay for your training, EVERYBODY does it at some point mate !!!!!!!!!!! some sooner than later... what everyone is very unpleased with is the way you are addressing other pilots on this website... and let me guess, not only pilots on this website but people around you.
And Born1987, if Tailwind has been looking for a long time doesn't justify such a behavior !!!!!! I've been trying to get in an airline for 2 years now and still not able to. Do I go all over the place and say this industry is corrupted, the only thing that will give me a job is lick someone's a
s, that too many people are prostitutes and only if they sleep left and right can get their dream job ? I do not believe so ... don't use the current crisis as an excuse for everything, things don't work like that.
nobody here is criticising your skills or your training. I will speak for myself here but EVERY pilot that i know did the same as you and I !!! We all started with training to get a CPL, all earned in honesty and all logged on the hours ! I have now 2000 hours and I will agree that today the only thing I don't have to get into an airline is money ... so far everyone i asked asks me to pay for a type rating !! I have a mountain of loans to pay back to my bank for the next coming years !!! Guess what... i'm not the only one !
Now, good for you if you have 50000US to spend !!! (although type rating doesn't cost that much). But as a fresh pilot, how in the world can you come on a site like that and compare some pilots with prostitutes !!! man please read carefully, so far in all the answers that pilots gave to you, NONE criticised the fact that you are ready to pay for your training, EVERYBODY does it at some point mate !!!!!!!!!!! some sooner than later... what everyone is very unpleased with is the way you are addressing other pilots on this website... and let me guess, not only pilots on this website but people around you.
And Born1987, if Tailwind has been looking for a long time doesn't justify such a behavior !!!!!! I've been trying to get in an airline for 2 years now and still not able to. Do I go all over the place and say this industry is corrupted, the only thing that will give me a job is lick someone's a
s, that too many people are prostitutes and only if they sleep left and right can get their dream job ? I do not believe so ... don't use the current crisis as an excuse for everything, things don't work like that.
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tailwind, 1987—when one posts this sort of question in a professional forum, under whatever circumstances, it naturally raises questions about one’s decision making and integrity in general. Other ppruners have brought to light corruptions within the DGCA with an intent to report it, and to discuss finding solutions to get around it, lessen or eliminate it from the system, not to promote it.
@tailwind, It could be true that DGCA takes bribes for cpl conversion, and the right agents 25 lakhs for securing you a job. It is just not appropriate for you to ask for assistance in looking for agents here. There are pilots and pilot organizations in India and in PPRuNe who are campaigning against corruption in the system, fighting to make it fair and square for all Indian and expat pilots. You undermine their collective efforts by openly asking members to point you to corrupt officials for help. What everybody is trying to tell you is, rethink about it and take your willing to bribe plea elsewhere.
@tailwind, It could be true that DGCA takes bribes for cpl conversion, and the right agents 25 lakhs for securing you a job. It is just not appropriate for you to ask for assistance in looking for agents here. There are pilots and pilot organizations in India and in PPRuNe who are campaigning against corruption in the system, fighting to make it fair and square for all Indian and expat pilots. You undermine their collective efforts by openly asking members to point you to corrupt officials for help. What everybody is trying to tell you is, rethink about it and take your willing to bribe plea elsewhere.
....thats exactly what every one is stressing..!
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my gosh r u comparing yourself,dgca,pilots,aviation personals with prostitutes?pls even respect your beautiful country u r denoting here your country india.
Last edited by born1987; 28th Apr 2009 at 15:50.
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tailwind you cannot compare pilots with prostitutes this is the worst thing i ever heard.i think u need to take good lesson on how to behave and speak in front of all professional persons.this is not your friends chat room where u can say whatever u want and use words that u want(i request administrator/moderator to pls bann tailwind to post further)because after comparing pilots with prostitutes his next question surely going to be about per hour rate of air hostess so he can enjoy while flying.
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[quote]
tailwind you cannot compare pilots with prostitutes this is the worst thing i ever heard.i think u need to take good lesson on how to behave and speak in front of all professional persons.this is not your friends chat room where u can say whatever u want and use words that u want(i request administrator/moderator to pls bann tailwind to post further)because after comparing pilots with prostitutes his next question surely going to be about per hour rate of air hostess so he can enjoy while flying.
[quote]
born1987,
I have a suggestion for you. Please change your nickname to born2007. You dont sound older than 2 or 3 !!!!!!!
Once again, just as I thought, everyone has grossly misunderstood me.
I have NOT compared pilots with prostitutes.
Sigh ! No wonder ICAO wants engalish profeciency !
What I meant was that sometimes circumstances force even good honest people to temporarily choose the wrong path.
Just like how some innocent helpless, jobless, girls with no money to run their families turn to prostitution out of desperation, same way .. sometimes some (not all) aspiring pilots have to resort to doing things which they normally would not.
and im not talking about agents or middlemen.
Airlines themselves are doing it. For example paramount.
tailwind you cannot compare pilots with prostitutes this is the worst thing i ever heard.i think u need to take good lesson on how to behave and speak in front of all professional persons.this is not your friends chat room where u can say whatever u want and use words that u want(i request administrator/moderator to pls bann tailwind to post further)because after comparing pilots with prostitutes his next question surely going to be about per hour rate of air hostess so he can enjoy while flying.
[quote]
born1987,
I have a suggestion for you. Please change your nickname to born2007. You dont sound older than 2 or 3 !!!!!!!
Once again, just as I thought, everyone has grossly misunderstood me.
I have NOT compared pilots with prostitutes.
Sigh ! No wonder ICAO wants engalish profeciency !
What I meant was that sometimes circumstances force even good honest people to temporarily choose the wrong path.
Just like how some innocent helpless, jobless, girls with no money to run their families turn to prostitution out of desperation, same way .. sometimes some (not all) aspiring pilots have to resort to doing things which they normally would not.
and im not talking about agents or middlemen.
Airlines themselves are doing it. For example paramount.
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Tailwinds35,
I understand your argument that you need your money to bribe the authority to do things smooth and fast, but the fact that you said "whose arse to kiss" etc, does give almost everyone in this forum reading your thread assumes that you really are an arse kisser, don't be surprised if I do think that you used your arse kissing capability to earn your license. Before you shout again, think of these;
1. How mentally retarded are you, as a new guy in the industry, thinking that your money and arse kissing capability is all that you need to posses to have a career.
2. By saying "whose arse to kiss" to pave your way to whatever aviation career you are after, that shows that people in the industry are inconsiderate enough to only consider your money, not you talent. Which of course they are not.
Now, tune your attitude for this industry mate. You either can take this comment constructively by really changing your attitude, or just yell back to me defending whatever there is that you wish to, and insult me in whatever way you can.
CLEARLY, we can all judge who you are by what your attitude is like.
Have a good Day.
Silver Spur
I understand your argument that you need your money to bribe the authority to do things smooth and fast, but the fact that you said "whose arse to kiss" etc, does give almost everyone in this forum reading your thread assumes that you really are an arse kisser, don't be surprised if I do think that you used your arse kissing capability to earn your license. Before you shout again, think of these;
1. How mentally retarded are you, as a new guy in the industry, thinking that your money and arse kissing capability is all that you need to posses to have a career.
2. By saying "whose arse to kiss" to pave your way to whatever aviation career you are after, that shows that people in the industry are inconsiderate enough to only consider your money, not you talent. Which of course they are not.
Now, tune your attitude for this industry mate. You either can take this comment constructively by really changing your attitude, or just yell back to me defending whatever there is that you wish to, and insult me in whatever way you can.
CLEARLY, we can all judge who you are by what your attitude is like.
Have a good Day.
Silver Spur
Last edited by Silver Spur; 29th Apr 2009 at 18:08.
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'engalish profaciency ' ?????????
This is too good to be true . The twit is a natural comedian .
Anyway , there's a good time to reflect on the realities as well . If there wasn't ways to get in through some dubious schemes , those lousy questions wouldn't be asked .On the other hand , if such ......people ........din't become pilots , maybe the schemes wouldn't exist .
Don't you want to use your 25 lakhs for a new brainscan ? sounds like a good investment to me .
This is too good to be true . The twit is a natural comedian .
Anyway , there's a good time to reflect on the realities as well . If there wasn't ways to get in through some dubious schemes , those lousy questions wouldn't be asked .On the other hand , if such ......people ........din't become pilots , maybe the schemes wouldn't exist .
Don't you want to use your 25 lakhs for a new brainscan ? sounds like a good investment to me .
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In the current market just having what you term "250 quality hrs" does not make you competitive. Very few outfits are hiring and the competition is tough. Folks are resorting to buying their own type ratings and while that sets you on a higher playing field, it does not mean you will get hired.
Assuming all things being equal, then your connections will help in India.
Otherwise, you have a long wait, unfortunately. It can be 2-3 years. If you can't find a job in aviation move on to something else and maintain your currency as best you can (hard to do in India). Accept any flying job you receive. In the past many freshers scoffed at flying the ATR, in fact refused. They only wanted the AB or NG. Times have changed.
What I find disturbing at times that there are a few CPL holders who actually don't really have a real interest in aviation. They only did it b/c of the potential for income. I had an F/O once you said he got into aviation b/c he was making 50,000/month as a lawyer fresh out of law school. He could make much more as a pilot. His attitude and flying skills were evident.
Assuming all things being equal, then your connections will help in India.
Otherwise, you have a long wait, unfortunately. It can be 2-3 years. If you can't find a job in aviation move on to something else and maintain your currency as best you can (hard to do in India). Accept any flying job you receive. In the past many freshers scoffed at flying the ATR, in fact refused. They only wanted the AB or NG. Times have changed.
What I find disturbing at times that there are a few CPL holders who actually don't really have a real interest in aviation. They only did it b/c of the potential for income. I had an F/O once you said he got into aviation b/c he was making 50,000/month as a lawyer fresh out of law school. He could make much more as a pilot. His attitude and flying skills were evident.
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" If a tree falls in the forest and nobody hears it......does is make a sound"
If I bribe someone to get my license converted, and nobody sees me, did I actually bribe him"
It seems that most of the people who are writing against Tailwind are from India.
He just put it like it is.....One HAS to kiss arse to get things done.....
Check the result from the last Air India Exam....how many candidates who get thru are Air India relatives?????? and how many are there on merit?????
I've seen over 80 of my friends try to get their lic. converted to a DGCA CPL and each on has paid at least one, some as high as 2.5 lakhs in chai/panee.
WHY?????????
If we want tailwind and other 250 hour guys to stop asking "whos arse to/or not to kiss", then we need to make sure he doesnt have to.....
Ive never seen a 250 hour FAA grad...ask whos arse to kiss in theFAA in Oklahoma City to get a lic.....
WHY
Because you dont have to.....
Why ask that to the DGCA.....because u have to....
so blame the DGCA babus....not Tailwind for saying it like it is.....
If I bribe someone to get my license converted, and nobody sees me, did I actually bribe him"
It seems that most of the people who are writing against Tailwind are from India.
He just put it like it is.....One HAS to kiss arse to get things done.....
Check the result from the last Air India Exam....how many candidates who get thru are Air India relatives?????? and how many are there on merit?????
I've seen over 80 of my friends try to get their lic. converted to a DGCA CPL and each on has paid at least one, some as high as 2.5 lakhs in chai/panee.
WHY?????????
If we want tailwind and other 250 hour guys to stop asking "whos arse to/or not to kiss", then we need to make sure he doesnt have to.....
Ive never seen a 250 hour FAA grad...ask whos arse to kiss in theFAA in Oklahoma City to get a lic.....
WHY
Because you dont have to.....
Why ask that to the DGCA.....because u have to....
so blame the DGCA babus....not Tailwind for saying it like it is.....
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Dear VIMANMAN,
I agree with you yankee, but this guy is either trying to offend everybody here or is an idiot !
We, as Capts, have to identify this kind of attitude guys in the cockpit and put them in the position they deserve with CRM of course.
Regards.
I agree with you yankee, but this guy is either trying to offend everybody here or is an idiot !
We, as Capts, have to identify this kind of attitude guys in the cockpit and put them in the position they deserve with CRM of course.
Regards.
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Tailwinds
250 hours and already an idiot with an attitude no problemo!
tell you what, try to buy a surplus brain and maybe it would function better and help you think a bit more careful. and if you cant find one, use that money to send yourself to school that teaches proper manners.
250 hours and already an idiot with an attitude no problemo!
tell you what, try to buy a surplus brain and maybe it would function better and help you think a bit more careful. and if you cant find one, use that money to send yourself to school that teaches proper manners.
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no mas....no masss....
ding...ding....ding....ding.....
enough!! im throwing in the towel for "tailwind" ..
no way Round 4 will end in a stand-up....
NO MAS.....NO MAS......!!!!
enough!! im throwing in the towel for "tailwind" ..
no way Round 4 will end in a stand-up....
NO MAS.....NO MAS......!!!!
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Hi Xptr and ATR101
Thanx for the quik reply.....
Just for the record, I hold an Indian Lic. ....and flew in India for 4 years....I also paid a handsome amount to the DGCA babus in chai/panee to get it converted ....I was qualified, yet had to pay...WHY????
What exactly about Tailwinds post got all of you gents so upset?
Was it that he asked about the truth....If he would have asked who he should bribe, rather than whos arse he should kiss...wouldtha havebeen acceptable?
In India, we dont talk about Sex as it is taboo, yet we have the 2nd highest pop. in the world, we have the highest rate of AIDS per capita in the world, and a rape rate that is nothing to be proud of, but we still try to portray the 'Sita' (how pure we are).
The same holds true about corruption, We all do it, yet we dont speak about it and when anyone confronts us about it, we berate that person for even daring to ask us about it....
The difference between Sex being Taboo and Corruption is that Sex maybe be ethically or morally wrong, but corruption as well as being morally and ethically wrong, is a CRIME, It is against the law.....but we hide behind smoke and mirrors, and spend our days justifying it....
I see nothing wrong in Tailwinds post.....
I see a lot wrong in the attitude of the respondents....
Thanx
PS I am really enjoying this debate...but its midnite here so ill beback bright and early to respond to any further posts....Good night
Thanx for the quik reply.....
Just for the record, I hold an Indian Lic. ....and flew in India for 4 years....I also paid a handsome amount to the DGCA babus in chai/panee to get it converted ....I was qualified, yet had to pay...WHY????
What exactly about Tailwinds post got all of you gents so upset?
Was it that he asked about the truth....If he would have asked who he should bribe, rather than whos arse he should kiss...wouldtha havebeen acceptable?
In India, we dont talk about Sex as it is taboo, yet we have the 2nd highest pop. in the world, we have the highest rate of AIDS per capita in the world, and a rape rate that is nothing to be proud of, but we still try to portray the 'Sita' (how pure we are).
The same holds true about corruption, We all do it, yet we dont speak about it and when anyone confronts us about it, we berate that person for even daring to ask us about it....
The difference between Sex being Taboo and Corruption is that Sex maybe be ethically or morally wrong, but corruption as well as being morally and ethically wrong, is a CRIME, It is against the law.....but we hide behind smoke and mirrors, and spend our days justifying it....
I see nothing wrong in Tailwinds post.....
I see a lot wrong in the attitude of the respondents....
Thanx
PS I am really enjoying this debate...but its midnite here so ill beback bright and early to respond to any further posts....Good night
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What's wrong with the first post is that the author believes that money, bribes, and brown nosing are how one becomes a professional airline pilot. No sir. They may very well enable one to drive an airplane in some parts of the world but they will never make one a professional airline pilot. The two are not the same thing.
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Tailwind wrote
I got my Indian CPL with 250 hours and Multi engine rating.
I know how this industry works, so anyone in this forum please tell me who I should hump, or whos arse to kiss etc and how much to pay to get job with details. can negotiate but not more than 22-25 Lacs.
greatly appreciate ..
thanks !
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I see this whole issue far differently than most respondents....
No "professional pilot" wants to brown nose, bribe, or kiss arse to get the job done, but In india...one HAS to....
As a "professional pilot", does it make u less professional if you pay a bribe, brown nose or kiss arse....(I am sure there are many airline captains and FOs in India who have paid bribes to get their licenses in india, in fact I am one of them and i am sure I am not the only one). i actaully wonder how many of the respondents who have berated Tailwinds unprofessional attitude have procured their lic. w/out even an xtra rupee leaving their wallet? things tha make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I get the feeling that asking about giving bribes, as tailwind did, is the issue....because many "professional pilots" (incl. myself) have engaged in exactly the things he was merely asking about....YET "Tailwind" is un professional....and we who pay bribes are so called "professional'
Seems to me that "calling a spade a spade is tough thing to do in India"
One question
Is it worse to ask about robbing a bank....or to actually rob the bank.
But i do suppose that if I merely ask about robbing the bank....I am not a professional bank robber....but if i actually rob the bank....then I am a Professional.....(if I use the same logic that has been used on this thread)
Thanx to all for the engaging debate....thouroughly enjoying myself....
I got my Indian CPL with 250 hours and Multi engine rating.
I know how this industry works, so anyone in this forum please tell me who I should hump, or whos arse to kiss etc and how much to pay to get job with details. can negotiate but not more than 22-25 Lacs.
greatly appreciate ..
thanks !
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think I see this whole issue far differently than most respondents....
No "professional pilot" wants to brown nose, bribe, or kiss arse to get the job done, but In india...one HAS to....
As a "professional pilot", does it make u less professional if you pay a bribe, brown nose or kiss arse....(I am sure there are many airline captains and FOs in India who have paid bribes to get their licenses in india, in fact I am one of them and i am sure I am not the only one). i actaully wonder how many of the respondents who have berated Tailwinds unprofessional attitude have procured their lic. w/out even an xtra rupee leaving their wallet? things tha make you go Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I get the feeling that asking about giving bribes, as tailwind did, is the issue....because many "professional pilots" (incl. myself) have engaged in exactly the things he was merely asking about....YET "Tailwind" is un professional....and we who pay bribes are so called "professional'
Seems to me that "calling a spade a spade is tough thing to do in India"
One question
Is it worse to ask about robbing a bank....or to actually rob the bank.
But i do suppose that if I merely ask about robbing the bank....I am not a professional bank robber....but if i actually rob the bank....then I am a Professional.....(if I use the same logic that has been used on this thread)
Thanx to all for the engaging debate....thouroughly enjoying myself....
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I think I see this whole issue far differently than most respondents....
No "professional pilot" wants to brown nose, bribe, or kiss arse to get the job done, but In india...one HAS to....
No "professional pilot" wants to brown nose, bribe, or kiss arse to get the job done, but In india...one HAS to....
As a "professional pilot", does it make u less professional if you pay a bribe, brown nose or kiss arse.
One question
Is it worse to ask about robbing a bank....or to actually rob the bank.
Is it worse to ask about robbing a bank....or to actually rob the bank.