Mas downsizing part 1
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Mas downsizing part 1
I heard rumours that those twelve (12) stations to be offline is only part 1 of downsizing.
Part 2 to be announced after Hari Raya Puasa is believed to include (in)voluntary seperation scheme (i.e. redundancy) and more stations to be offline (e.g LAX, EWR).
I am surprise the management didn't adjust the BCG recommendation to take advantage of diminishing Ansett Australia or was it too late to change?
[ 06 October 2001: Message edited by: snowmanfx ]
Part 2 to be announced after Hari Raya Puasa is believed to include (in)voluntary seperation scheme (i.e. redundancy) and more stations to be offline (e.g LAX, EWR).
I am surprise the management didn't adjust the BCG recommendation to take advantage of diminishing Ansett Australia or was it too late to change?
[ 06 October 2001: Message edited by: snowmanfx ]
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What a shame. It's always been a good airline but the in-house politics and the wrangling for position has really scr*wed it up.
Will the redundancy program really help or are we just paying lip service? The deadwood is still floating around.
Will the redundancy program really help or are we just paying lip service? The deadwood is still floating around.
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This is a blessing for MAS. Finally we can get rid of all the dead wood. This includes the retirees on the B744. Maybe there will be slots for dynamic capable young commanders
These Jurassic old farts have past their prime and not been able to adapt to the NEW way of flying, namely CRM. So things are looking up after all. Let MAS prosper with the Right people.
These Jurassic old farts have past their prime and not been able to adapt to the NEW way of flying, namely CRM. So things are looking up after all. Let MAS prosper with the Right people.
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Hey Cavi, some of the younger prats have even a greater problem with CRM. Yelling and screaming on the flightdeck, enough to embarrass the pax, who nervously ask the cabincrew if everything is ok. Talk about being professional and CRM! Time you for an attitude check me thinks. Geriatric or childish, neither is better.
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Iso,
I must agree with you that some of these young commanders are not applying CRM correctly. But when I ask them where they learn these tantrums from it's from their beloved Captains. These Old commanders feels that CRM are for everyone else. Some teaches CRM but NEVER practice it. The old school of thought is going on rampant on the B744. " I the Captain , Don't question me " So let weed out these Bad hats whether young or old. They can always practice their CRM skills at transmile, SQ or maybe Pelangi.
I must agree with you that some of these young commanders are not applying CRM correctly. But when I ask them where they learn these tantrums from it's from their beloved Captains. These Old commanders feels that CRM are for everyone else. Some teaches CRM but NEVER practice it. The old school of thought is going on rampant on the B744. " I the Captain , Don't question me " So let weed out these Bad hats whether young or old. They can always practice their CRM skills at transmile, SQ or maybe Pelangi.
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Caviar4me, you display all the arrogance of youth!! Just how old are these "geriatric" retirees that you refer to?
I believe that my 36 years of experience will see me in good stead, far better than one of these young and new commanders you speak of.
Bide your time, when it is time for you, you will be called, in the mean time you should enjoy the opportunity to learn at the knee of your elders. And yes, I have done all three CRM courses and put it to use for almost 36 years.
I believe that my 36 years of experience will see me in good stead, far better than one of these young and new commanders you speak of.
Bide your time, when it is time for you, you will be called, in the mean time you should enjoy the opportunity to learn at the knee of your elders. And yes, I have done all three CRM courses and put it to use for almost 36 years.
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Khan.... I did fly on the B744. There are quite a number of commanders that have very little systems knowledge and procedures well that was something alien. I had to literally coach a number of the captains as they were well below par. One good thing was they realise their shortfall. I believe a number of them are due to retire and also 1 or 2 on contract. So let us rejuvenate the B744.
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Khan,
Cavier4me states a very valid point. Didn't feel any arrogance nor rudeness from his post. Some Capts do think that the only way to display command quality is to Shout and Scream; that you'd need a very composed and able copilot to cope with this sort of short comings in ensuring the 2 man operations still exit.
CRL
Cavier4me states a very valid point. Didn't feel any arrogance nor rudeness from his post. Some Capts do think that the only way to display command quality is to Shout and Scream; that you'd need a very composed and able copilot to cope with this sort of short comings in ensuring the 2 man operations still exit.
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Slasher, a very good question! I think we can all thank our previous chairman for bringing our wonderful company to the state it is in today.
Stand back Tan Sri and pat yourself on the back and know that you are a beacon in the aviation industries of Asia. A benchmark, an empecible standard of corporate management to be emulated by those that aspire to acheive the same. A global airline! Bukan!
Stand back Tan Sri and pat yourself on the back and know that you are a beacon in the aviation industries of Asia. A benchmark, an empecible standard of corporate management to be emulated by those that aspire to acheive the same. A global airline! Bukan!
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Oh really u have dumb B744 commanders who can shout?Amazing, cos I agree with u. Some of them do not know how many engines the big bird has.Ciao 
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: marlin ]
[ 10 October 2001: Message edited by: marlin ]
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All the problems there are interdependent, eg: personal greed especially, politicking, interpersonal conflict, masterminding, protecting one's a$$ resulting in a WIDE SYSTEMIC FAILURE. More negative energy will be spent patching the symptoms when the root of the problem is not properly diagnosed.
I think MAS will never recover, especially in this current economic state. In short I reckon it'll just be another flag-waving excercise..and a very expensive one too. Just goes to show that the locals have got a long way to go in returning a profit.
I think MAS will never recover, especially in this current economic state. In short I reckon it'll just be another flag-waving excercise..and a very expensive one too. Just goes to show that the locals have got a long way to go in returning a profit.
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All these screaming and raving in the cockpit by the old and young are just done by bad personalities and not the trait of good pilots. No amount of CRM can help them. They are just bad tempered and should start thinking of changing career, like a parade sargeant in the army.
If your engine caught fire and cannot be extinguised no amount of screaming can help.
So be professional, tell the crew and pax in a calm voice that all of you are going down then scream all you want when the flame licked your skin.
If your engine caught fire and cannot be extinguised no amount of screaming can help.
So be professional, tell the crew and pax in a calm voice that all of you are going down then scream all you want when the flame licked your skin.
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Gentlemen,
I have had the opportunity to fly on the right for some exceptional commanders as well as some very dissapointing ones.
Now I too am a commander and a trainer,and I say this in all honesty that a person's competence comes from his/her personal attitude and pride in his work.It has nothing to do with his age or the fact that he has reached the apex of his career(B744)or just starting out.
To those who pretend that all is well with the younger generation,do take an honest look.They are some among this generation too who know not as much as they ought too, only worse they don't have the experience to boot as well.(Believe me it will count when the chips are down,assuming you have been paying attention to its lessons)As for those who are "gen-ed UP",do you think it's possible that they were well guided by some of those "geriatrics" ?
Blaming the more senior ones for the misbehaviour of the "younger" pilots is simply being callous.(caviar4me)
We need to learn both from the books as well as the experience life and others have to offer us.Don't be in a rush or think we know all there is too know.As the saying goes "Ambil yang jernih,buang yang keruh" and you'll be be a better man for it.
Cheers!
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: steelbird ]
I have had the opportunity to fly on the right for some exceptional commanders as well as some very dissapointing ones.
Now I too am a commander and a trainer,and I say this in all honesty that a person's competence comes from his/her personal attitude and pride in his work.It has nothing to do with his age or the fact that he has reached the apex of his career(B744)or just starting out.
To those who pretend that all is well with the younger generation,do take an honest look.They are some among this generation too who know not as much as they ought too, only worse they don't have the experience to boot as well.(Believe me it will count when the chips are down,assuming you have been paying attention to its lessons)As for those who are "gen-ed UP",do you think it's possible that they were well guided by some of those "geriatrics" ?
Blaming the more senior ones for the misbehaviour of the "younger" pilots is simply being callous.(caviar4me)
We need to learn both from the books as well as the experience life and others have to offer us.Don't be in a rush or think we know all there is too know.As the saying goes "Ambil yang jernih,buang yang keruh" and you'll be be a better man for it.
Cheers!
[ 14 October 2001: Message edited by: steelbird ]
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Hey guys.... what's all this hogwash about them guys on the B744. CRM or not, it all boils down to oneself. Don't blame them guys up there coz' as cool dudes, one must be able to know whats right or wrong.
As commanders, we must lead by example but I see some of you are no better than them up there. Look yourselves in the mirror and ask oneself b4 you start pointing fingers on others.
Yep..... MAS sure is in the dumps and no miracle can help them now. With pyg at the helm, small wonder we are what we are now.
The other day, they decided to defer all promotions and send them back to the respective fleets and more to come guys... they are talking about sending "online" pilots back to their respective old fleets. What a shame coz' it will do more harm than good.
Looks like it's not rainy days we facing but more of storms and thunder!!!
As commanders, we must lead by example but I see some of you are no better than them up there. Look yourselves in the mirror and ask oneself b4 you start pointing fingers on others.
Yep..... MAS sure is in the dumps and no miracle can help them now. With pyg at the helm, small wonder we are what we are now.
The other day, they decided to defer all promotions and send them back to the respective fleets and more to come guys... they are talking about sending "online" pilots back to their respective old fleets. What a shame coz' it will do more harm than good.
Looks like it's not rainy days we facing but more of storms and thunder!!!
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I agree with some of the points raised but the bottom line is you.... yourself. As Commanders, we must be able to weed out what's wrong and lead the young one's especially the Co-pilots. If one wants to be called professionals, then one must act like one.... unless you want to be drivers.
Just look at the lorry drivers on the roads, they act like hooligans. We complain about their attitude, much the same with some of your complaints about the "so-called" old farts on the B744... but you 'young' ones act just like them, infact worse than that.
I've heard stories about them young commanders act as if you're the only flyers in this damn world. And I have trained these so-called macho guys on the big birds and what do I see... "sheer incompetence", a Commander that don't even know basic command qualities.
Yeah, you guys can fly; there's no doubt about that. But flying alone does not suffice in these modern times. A lot is expected from Commanders nowadays as we are not only trained to fly but to manage an aircraft.
Let's not talk about them old farts up there with their so called "command qualities" but what we can do to improve the cockpit environment. No amount of training, be it CRM, PEW or even FITP can help if we do not improve ourselves.
The saying goes: "Don't do onto others what you don't want others to do onto you"
Just look at the lorry drivers on the roads, they act like hooligans. We complain about their attitude, much the same with some of your complaints about the "so-called" old farts on the B744... but you 'young' ones act just like them, infact worse than that.
I've heard stories about them young commanders act as if you're the only flyers in this damn world. And I have trained these so-called macho guys on the big birds and what do I see... "sheer incompetence", a Commander that don't even know basic command qualities.
Yeah, you guys can fly; there's no doubt about that. But flying alone does not suffice in these modern times. A lot is expected from Commanders nowadays as we are not only trained to fly but to manage an aircraft.
Let's not talk about them old farts up there with their so called "command qualities" but what we can do to improve the cockpit environment. No amount of training, be it CRM, PEW or even FITP can help if we do not improve ourselves.
The saying goes: "Don't do onto others what you don't want others to do onto you"
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MAStake, agree but unhappily so. It is the culture of the company that it has been like this for so long, and there are alot of people to blame. As soon as people stop thinking what's in it for me, and get more motivated to think, what can I do for the company, and then get something for me, then, and only then will we see the so called paridigm shift. Funny litte saying, with funny personalities struggling to stroke their own egos. And that is all it amounts to, at the expense of the company.
This of course means it doesn't help if you have people who are put out of work, no food on the table, families are without, a future that is totally unclear, and insecurity, and of course personal self esteem eroded. All for the sake of a few greedy egos.
So guys, be thankful if you have a job, some of you wont for long, and maybe me as well. It is up to the new management to change it. Give them as much support as you can, as your very future may depend on it.
This is an opportunity to show the elite ego maniacs that integrity is a far greater virtue than strutting around with your nose in the air with a fractured personality.
Keep at it.
This of course means it doesn't help if you have people who are put out of work, no food on the table, families are without, a future that is totally unclear, and insecurity, and of course personal self esteem eroded. All for the sake of a few greedy egos.
So guys, be thankful if you have a job, some of you wont for long, and maybe me as well. It is up to the new management to change it. Give them as much support as you can, as your very future may depend on it.
This is an opportunity to show the elite ego maniacs that integrity is a far greater virtue than strutting around with your nose in the air with a fractured personality.
Keep at it.
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STEELBIRD,
YOU ARE A GOOD MAN,I'COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER.GOOD ON YOU!
CAVI,
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF OTHER CO-PILOTS
COMPLANING ABOUT THE SAME CAPTAIN? OR PERHAPS
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ALWAYS"HAD IT" FROM ALMOST EVERY CAPTAINS?OPS!
YOU ARE A GOOD MAN,I'COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER.GOOD ON YOU!
CAVI,
HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF OTHER CO-PILOTS
COMPLANING ABOUT THE SAME CAPTAIN? OR PERHAPS
YOU ARE THE ONE WHO ALWAYS"HAD IT" FROM ALMOST EVERY CAPTAINS?OPS!
