Vietnam Airlines (info please)

[ia1166]

Originally Posted by EagleA25

Well, that's kinda how things work here in SE Asia; you pay to fly and pay to upgrade; again, there are NO unions and seniority is a reference, nothing else. Besides, it isn't really that much different from what most of us did when we started our training and got pur PPL's and CPL's; also, no one's putting a gun to your head, you can stay put if you like...
Personal preference of lifestyle, I guess; also, money is not everything, some of us have been flying the mini-bus for a while; I'm looking forward to a change of pace if the opportunity arised...
have a great weekend everyone!

Sure. Depends on your take on it. 22 years on the scarebus, and never paid for anything in aviation apart from the odd sim check, means it is a hard step for me to take. We all have choices.

Also as has been said here a lot, i think 5 more years here is slightly optomistic maybe? So where would you go with a 350 type rating. As a contractor the type to be on is the 320, sad as it is.

[pezetaroi]

Originally Posted by ia1166

Also as has been said here a lot, i think 5 more years here is slightly optomistic maybe? So where would you go with a 350 type rating. As a contractor the type to be on is the 320, sad as it is.

That precisely, is something to think a lot about, as mercenaries our best weapon will always be the 320... Undoubtedly the 350 will give us a completely different panorama, but besides the fact that we will have to pay for our rating and have a reduced salary during the training, after the 5 year contract our options will be very limited...

[ThunderLizard]

350 or 320

Just browse through 330 jobs on Rish or Parc today. That's what A350 jobs will be like in a few years. That being said, my guess is the 320 will continue to offer the best job security, in SE Asia at least. There's just so many of them.

[ia1166]

Time will tell of course. But i heard the 350 isn't proving very popular. Lots more options with a 787 rating i would have thought.

Its all speculation, but work on the 320 is guarenteed for another 10 years at least.

[EagleA25]

Originally Posted by ThunderLizard

Just browse through 330 jobs on Rish or Parc today. That's what A350 jobs will be like in a few years. That being said, my guess is the 320 will continue to offer the best job security, in SE Asia at least. There's just so many of them.

I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?

[wingdeagle]

Originally Posted by VietJetPilot

Since everyone here knows about the Hanoi runway excursion, I'd like to widen the perspective a little and dedicated tgos post to Vietnam Airline's Shaming Tradition/Policy and make the following known:
the Turd's who used his family influence and illegally manipulated crew rostering to go for a quick spin in the A321 with one of his high school buddies junior FO.

Here a quick resume:

Turd goes off-roading in Noi Bai during a thunderstorm overhead after his junior FO not just asked but demanded a Go-Around THREE TIMES is the BEST example of what Vietnam's Aviation Youth has to offer!






After coming back to the runway, he taxies back to the gate, parks his plane, pretends nothing even happened, then even tries to bribe the mechanics on the spot. But since pictures were already taken, technicians, well aware of their dilemma, did not want to stick their heads for this ignoramus into a noose and declined (good for them!)

Even though this event showed the level of immaturity of this super-star, his complete lack of Aeronautical Decision Making and the process involved, no ethical remorse what so ever for the safety of his clients but only for his own image and career, an unimaginable level of incompetence and disrespect for Crew Resource Management administration as a Commander, he is currently receiving "remedial training" with some of the most mediocre A321 instructors of the company who are just ****ting their pants to put any constructive criticism into the training file about this asshat as they all know it will cost them their job! This guy has DANGEROUS written all over him, but since he's the son of... well, you all get the picture! Now, lets compare this with the Expat Pilot in Da Nang who took complete responsibility for the actions of his Vietnamese first officer; well, the Safety Management System is Top-Notch in Vietnam Airlines!

Guys, please, the underlying message here for interested pilots is: DO NOT come to Vietnam Airlines if you value your careers! Every month since January VNA received an unprecedented amount of resignations as the problems are getting more and more evident. There are SO many better Air Carriers out there offering not just more money, better benefits but at a WAY lower risk to your health! It will NOT end well! Here you will be part of an airline that prefers to "safe face" than to adequately address safety issues! The way this is done is extremely mediocre and reactive in every way!

#VietnamAirlines #IATA #AviationSafety #SkyTeam

Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.

[ia1166]

Originally Posted by EagleA25

I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?

It wont be transferable to a UK Easa licnece. Its a good point that after leaving here it will be useless as your licence will be cancelled.

At the moment i am home in my own bed every night bar 3 or 4. And i am always in bed by midnight ish.

Look at the long haul guys. Its a brutal lifestyle. And you cant take your wife with you here either.

[pezetaroi]

Originally Posted by wingdeagle

s If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ?

Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here (and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier) so there's really nothing we can do about it but fly on the safe side, or is there?

Back on the 350; yes, the rating will be on our "exclusive" license and very difficult to add to our international one, so another point to think about.

cheers

[EagleA25]

So..?

Originally Posted by wingdeagle

Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.

Wing: we are not "part" of this; every Commander is responsible for his/her own flight; if Vietjetpilot wants to make a dent into VNA, he is barking at the wrong place; here, at leat I belive, the majority are serious and career oriented pilots who look for information and opinions on opportunities and operational issues; I'm really not interested on reading about a young colleagues escapades.
My personal opinion on that issue? Not the first; won't be the last. If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future which will have far reaching consequences affecting everyone, not just local pilots!
As this Airline is under Communist rule, what would you like the pilot community in VNA to do? Go on strike?
Vietjetpilot, wake up man; this airline is "taking advantage" of the pilots that come here, quit your complaining and start taking advantage of them!

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion: anyone know what is the EASA requirement to add the type to the license is?

[ElitePilot]

With regards to 330/350 transfer once you have 500hours on type, do a skill test, do the paperwork, pay the money wait for the endorsement. I don't see the problem.

[ia1166]

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

[EagleA25]

Hmmm

Originally Posted by ia1166

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

You got a good point there... is the A330 and 350 "one license" now?
If so, the future for the A330Neo looks kinda interesting...

[nike]

Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here

Normalisation of deviance.

and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier)

Nope.

If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future

Hahaha! Management would never take responsibility.

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion

Sad state of affairs on show here.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by ia1166

I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.

I would recommend you recheck all of the above with an ATO because I believe you are incorrect

[safelife]

EASA rule is rating can be renewed till 36 months lapsed. Thereafter full course required.
Renewal training depends on your flying duty in between. A320 lapsed three years while flying 330 or 350 (comparable aircraft) means no additional training required, just the LPC.

[ElitePilot]

IA you are not correct. First of all EASA TRTO's went out many years ago replaced by ATO.
It is not mandatory with most states I am aware of to go through an ATO as there is no training requirement so long as you meet the requirements from Commision Reg 1178 just a Skill Test and evidence of flight hours on third country license.
Next you do not lose a 320 rating after 2 years. You can not fly the plane for years and keep it current by LPC every year with no ATO. Or let it lapse with increasing "recommended" sim sessions as per ATO discretion up to 3 years as safelife says.
I'm not trying to pick an argument but if you're not interested don't make false statements if you don't know, it misleads.

[ia1166]

Sure, i probably am a long way out of date as i am not particularly interested in paperwork and suggested anyone considering this should check their state regulations.

I can ask my mates up in the belgrano for clarification maybe.

I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,

[Luke SkyToddler]

Go ask captain M or captain V at Green Dot Aviation, they've done loads of EASA renewals for VNA pilots

[ia1166]

Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.

[ZFT]

Originally Posted by ia1166

Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.

Sure, but not all easa is the same.

Seems to defeat the purpose?