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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

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Vietnam Airlines (info please)

Old 5th Aug 2017, 15:56
  #1381 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: 36N 33E
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Originally Posted by ThunderLizard View Post
Just browse through 330 jobs on Rish or Parc today. That's what A350 jobs will be like in a few years. That being said, my guess is the 320 will continue to offer the best job security, in SE Asia at least. There's just so many of them.
I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 17:10
  #1382 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
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Originally Posted by VietJetPilot View Post
Since everyone here knows about the Hanoi runway excursion, I'd like to widen the perspective a little and dedicated tgos post to Vietnam Airline's Shaming Tradition/Policy and make the following known:
the Turd's who used his family influence and illegally manipulated crew rostering to go for a quick spin in the A321 with one of his high school buddies junior FO.

Here a quick resume:

Turd goes off-roading in Noi Bai during a thunderstorm overhead after his junior FO not just asked but demanded a Go-Around THREE TIMES is the BEST example of what Vietnam's Aviation Youth has to offer!






After coming back to the runway, he taxies back to the gate, parks his plane, pretends nothing even happened, then even tries to bribe the mechanics on the spot. But since pictures were already taken, technicians, well aware of their dilemma, did not want to stick their heads for this ignoramus into a noose and declined (good for them!)

Even though this event showed the level of immaturity of this super-star, his complete lack of Aeronautical Decision Making and the process involved, no ethical remorse what so ever for the safety of his clients but only for his own image and career, an unimaginable level of incompetence and disrespect for Crew Resource Management administration as a Commander, he is currently receiving "remedial training" with some of the most mediocre A321 instructors of the company who are just shitting their pants to put any constructive criticism into the training file about this asshat as they all know it will cost them their job! This guy has DANGEROUS written all over him, but since he's the son of... well, you all get the picture! Now, lets compare this with the Expat Pilot in Da Nang who took complete responsibility for the actions of his Vietnamese first officer; well, the Safety Management System is Top-Notch in Vietnam Airlines!

Guys, please, the underlying message here for interested pilots is: DO NOT come to Vietnam Airlines if you value your careers! Every month since January VNA received an unprecedented amount of resignations as the problems are getting more and more evident. There are SO many better Air Carriers out there offering not just more money, better benefits but at a WAY lower risk to your health! It will NOT end well! Here you will be part of an airline that prefers to "safe face" than to adequately address safety issues! The way this is done is extremely mediocre and reactive in every way!

#VietnamAirlines #IATA #AviationSafety #SkyTeam
Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.

Last edited by wingdeagle; 5th Aug 2017 at 17:20.
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Old 5th Aug 2017, 18:04
  #1383 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
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Originally Posted by EagleA25 View Post
I think in the end its a question of lifestyle; on the 321 I manage 27 days at home average sleeping on my own pillow; the 350? No one knows yet, but costs of livonf will definetly increase (wife will want to come along everywhere; but who can blame her?).
The question also is, will the 350 rating be accepted anywhere else after 5 years as the License will say "for VNA only"? You might not even want to stay after your contract is over... and then?
Another input I had was that the 330 and 350 will be one rating, especially when the A330Neo comes out...
It seems that sometimes bigger is not always better...
Suggestions?
It wont be transferable to a UK Easa licnece. Its a good point that after leaving here it will be useless as your licence will be cancelled.

At the moment i am home in my own bed every night bar 3 or 4. And i am always in bed by midnight ish.

Look at the long haul guys. Its a brutal lifestyle. And you cant take your wife with you here either.
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Old 6th Aug 2017, 01:02
  #1384 (permalink)  
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Join Date: Oct 2004
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Originally Posted by wingdeagle View Post
s If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ?
Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here (and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier) so there's really nothing we can do about it but fly on the safe side, or is there?

Back on the 350; yes, the rating will be on our "exclusive" license and very difficult to add to our international one, so another point to think about.

cheers
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Old 6th Aug 2017, 01:36
  #1385 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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So..?

Originally Posted by wingdeagle View Post
Amazing ! So a privileged kid takes a 321 ride for a spin, puts it into grass, taxies to the gate like nothing happened, tries to bribe engineers etc. All this sounds very believable and yes, in other countries this would be a criminal offense ! Next thing you know, the discussion turns into 321 vs 350. If this is all the concerns you have gentlemen (and ladies ?), you are a part of the direction this flying circus is heading to. Shiny new jets and the egos that come with flying them make pilots blind to the safety issues or do they not ? Thanks for posting VietJetPilot.
Wing: we are not "part" of this; every Commander is responsible for his/her own flight; if Vietjetpilot wants to make a dent into VNA, he is barking at the wrong place; here, at leat I belive, the majority are serious and career oriented pilots who look for information and opinions on opportunities and operational issues; I'm really not interested on reading about a young colleagues escapades.
My personal opinion on that issue? Not the first; won't be the last. If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future which will have far reaching consequences affecting everyone, not just local pilots!
As this Airline is under Communist rule, what would you like the pilot community in VNA to do? Go on strike?
Vietjetpilot, wake up man; this airline is "taking advantage" of the pilots that come here, quit your complaining and start taking advantage of them!

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion: anyone know what is the EASA requirement to add the type to the license is?
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Old 6th Aug 2017, 07:57
  #1386 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Transition Level
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With regards to 330/350 transfer once you have 500hours on type, do a skill test, do the paperwork, pay the money wait for the endorsement. I don't see the problem.
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Old 6th Aug 2017, 13:51
  #1387 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11
I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.
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Old 6th Aug 2017, 17:27
  #1388 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Hmmm

Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.
You got a good point there... is the A330 and 350 "one license" now?
If so, the future for the A330Neo looks kinda interesting...
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 00:27
  #1389 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Whether we like it or not, that's just the way it works here
Normalisation of deviance.

and everywhere else where expats are part of a Flag Carrier)
Nope.

If VNA management does not feel it is worth any more disciplinary actions then it is them who will take responsibility for any events in the future
Hahaha! Management would never take responsibility.

Back to the A350 upgrade discussion
Sad state of affairs on show here.
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 00:49
  #1390 (permalink)  
ZFT
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Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
I do. It has to be done at an approved trto for the uk i believe. Another problem is you will lose your A320 rating after 2 years if you dont fly the 320, and will require a full type rating courseat an approved TRTO to recover that rating. Its a minefield now.

I would certainly be getting it in writing from your home country. I may be wrong, but i am not interested anyhow.

You could make yourself unemployable if you are not careful.
I would recommend you recheck all of the above with an ATO because I believe you are incorrect
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 01:09
  #1391 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: FL510
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EASA rule is rating can be renewed till 36 months lapsed. Thereafter full course required.
Renewal training depends on your flying duty in between. A320 lapsed three years while flying 330 or 350 (comparable aircraft) means no additional training required, just the LPC.
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 06:47
  #1392 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
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IA you are not correct. First of all EASA TRTO's went out many years ago replaced by ATO.
It is not mandatory with most states I am aware of to go through an ATO as there is no training requirement so long as you meet the requirements from Commision Reg 1178 just a Skill Test and evidence of flight hours on third country license.
Next you do not lose a 320 rating after 2 years. You can not fly the plane for years and keep it current by LPC every year with no ATO. Or let it lapse with increasing "recommended" sim sessions as per ATO discretion up to 3 years as safelife says.
I'm not trying to pick an argument but if you're not interested don't make false statements if you don't know, it misleads.
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 07:02
  #1393 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11
Sure, i probably am a long way out of date as i am not particularly interested in paperwork and suggested anyone considering this should check their state regulations.

I can ask my mates up in the belgrano for clarification maybe.

I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 07:42
  #1394 (permalink)  
 
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Go ask captain M or captain V at Green Dot Aviation, they've done loads of EASA renewals for VNA pilots
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 08:49
  #1395 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11
Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.
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Old 7th Aug 2017, 10:36
  #1396 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
Sure, but not all easa is the same. Better to check with your home country. I have some old chopper mates up in the belgrano who keep an eye on my stuff.

I have heard some of the 330 guys can struggle to get a lpc from their home country. Getting sim and a tre or whatever they are called now. I can only imagine getting one on the 350 could be an expensive event. Getting your easa 320 lpc out here is expensive too. Certainly a lot lot more than my one was in england. And getting a sandbag for the other seat?

Its just more sense to me to stay on the 320. The cost to change fleet could be invested in property which is more interesting than slogging back and forward to japan at night.

Alternatively go to China Southern where its just a bond.
Sure, but not all easa is the same.
Seems to defeat the purpose?
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Old 8th Aug 2017, 01:30
  #1397 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Eagles Nest
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I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,[/QUOTE]

Even though I should stay out of this 350 discussion as it does not affect me, here are a few reasons I can see why: you avoid four sectors in the overcrowded skies of Vietnam. You have practiced enough holding patterns, tired of dealing with mediocre Vietnamese ATC and got fed up with switching airplanes in the middle of a busy flying day. You stay away from the "I just got released" 200 hour wonders who know all the level 1,2,3 numbers by heart, but don't remember one memory item of the Airbus (only God knows how 90% of them get "released" nowadays) , you sit in a pub in Narita having your ego massaged by telling your mates from other airlines you are flying a brand new A350 , sit in a Paris cafe enjoying a nice cup of coffee and the "views", all while your A321 mates back in Vietnam are continuously getting harassed with schedule changes and calls out on their stand by days to either do a typhoon flight some "air aces" don't feel like operating or it's a Sunday morning and they have to cover "sick" calls. I do agree with ia1166 though, going to the 350 severely limits a contract pilot's options should there be a need to find a new job.

Last edited by wingdeagle; 8th Aug 2017 at 01:52.
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Old 8th Aug 2017, 01:44
  #1398 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Originally Posted by wingdeagle View Post
I am still wondering why any contract pilot would choose to fly the 350 though, but then again i only work so i can live,
Even though it does not affect me, there are many good reasons I can see why: you avoid four sectors in the overcrowded skies of Vietnam. You have practiced enough holding patterns, tired of dealing with mediocre Vietnamese ATC and got fed up with switching airplanes in the middle of a busy flying day. You stay away from the "I just got released 200 hour wonders who know all the level 1,2,3 numbers by heart, but don't remember one memory item of the Airbus (only God knows how 90% of them nowadays get "released")" , you sit in a pub in Narita having your ego massaged by telling your mates from other airlines you are flying a brand new A350 , sit in a Paris cafe enjoying a nice cup of coffee and the "views", all while your A321 mates back in Vietnam are continuously getting harassed with schedule changes and calls out on their stand by days to either do a typhoon flight some "air aces" don't feel like operating or it's a Sunday morning and they have to cover "sick" calls. Like everything in aviation, it's all a trade off. Cheers.[/QUOTE]

You are funny... 🤣
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Old 9th Aug 2017, 11:40
  #1399 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 11
I only have 3 4 sector days this month, 3 overnight stays, 2 in dad and 1 in cxr. No night flights, 60 hours flying.

Are you keeping a record of your duty time? 4 sector days really ramp it up,and you will exceed the 4 week limit, not the 7 day one.

In response to your 350 reasoning, I save almost all my salary and dont need to be buying 10 euro coffee in paris, sitting around on my own all day, or in some bar talking to pilots, same for Narita thanks. Seen it once, dont need to see it again, and i certainly dont want to sit in the front of an airplane for 5 excruitiating hours in the dark, or worse 12 hours. I actually like take off and landing as its interesting. And i get to chat to people on the ground a bit, and make a cup of tea.

Also lots of free time in the gym of my choice, not some hotel gym. Lovely.

You will need to get assesed and signed off by a UK ATO for your 350 rating. Good luck as not many operators in the uk. You will have to pay a premium for a mainline tre i suspect for check also. Which will need to be a UK ATO approved checker. Thats from my mate in the bee hive. Do your own research.

And why would you keep your A 320 type rating on your home licence while flying the 350 on your VN one. Puts you right up,the creek should you suddenly become unemployed. You need currency.

My mates quote good luck, not many 350 operators here.

Which is my point i guess.

Last edited by ia1166; 9th Aug 2017 at 12:50.
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Old 10th Aug 2017, 23:56
  #1400 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
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Agree to disagree...

Originally Posted by ia1166 View Post
I only have 3 4 sector days this month, 3 overnight stays, 2 in dad and 1 in cxr. No night flights, 60 hours flying.

Are you keeping a record of your duty time? 4 sector days really ramp it up,and you will exceed the 4 week limit, not the 7 day one.

In response to your 350 reasoning, I save almost all my salary and dont need to be buying 10 euro coffee in paris, sitting around on my own all day, or in some bar talking to pilots, same for Narita thanks. Seen it once, dont need to see it again, and i certainly dont want to sit in the front of an airplane for 5 excruitiating hours in the dark, or worse 12 hours. I actually like take off and landing as its interesting. And i get to chat to people on the ground a bit, and make a cup of tea.

Also lots of free time in the gym of my choice, not some hotel gym. Lovely.

You will need to get assesed and signed off by a UK ATO for your 350 rating. Good luck as not many operators in the uk. You will have to pay a premium for a mainline tre i suspect for check also. Which will need to be a UK ATO approved checker. Thats from my mate in the bee hive. Do your own research.

And why would you keep your A 320 type rating on your home licence while flying the 350 on your VN one. Puts you right up,the creek should you suddenly become unemployed. You need currency.

My mates quote good luck, not many 350 operators here.

Which is my point i guess.
Mate; I hate to disagree, but I understand that the 330 and 350 are essentially now the same license with EASA:

https://www.easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/20140917%20A350%20Letter%20of%20Acceptance.pdf

So, I have a feeling that once you are able to get the A350 TR on your license a whole world of operators flying the A330 and in the future A330Neo's open up; and yes, in most companies, bigger means better (pay, time off, destinations, treatment)... but as you said, its everyone's personal choice... which opens up another can of worms: how will Brexit affect EASA

10 Euro Coffee? With a view of the Eifel Tower, right? 😆 I might get myself into tge smuggling business as the cabin crew is; geez!
I used to love T/O's and landings, too, and especially hand-flying! What I liked even more is tutoring amd teaching young and aspiring First Officers. But, since here the levels of aeronautical incompetence have to be protected and good stick and rudder skills are just considered "show-off-skills", A321 Fleet SOP now states that the autopilot is to remain connected until landing configuration is set! Yeah, with the auto-trim operating, those configuration changes seem to be extremely hazardous!
So, yeah, I actually prefer not to anymore, I compensate my need for this kind of adrenalin rush on my vacation time flying Extra 300's at home!

But there is a good point you are making: here in VNA they use that bird to fly only to Da Nang, Hanoi, Tokio and Paris, thats all, or am I missing anything? 🙄

Last edited by EagleA25; 11th Aug 2017 at 00:12. Reason: More stuff...
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