Housing allowance SIA Cargo
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While this is becoming a bit of a personal battle between the two of you, it would be wise to step back and really contemplate what is being said...
To be fair, i must agree that both sides do have a valid pt from their pts of view. HA should be paid to expats, that is true... everywhere in the world whether big or small there is at least some form of HA, cheap construction workers have their dorms, while rich IT managers can afford their condos. The rent in Singapore has truely been crazy and I am sure a lot of expats have been badly hit. I mean even if you had rented a place for 2yrs it is still a pain to move halfway through ur stint.
It is also true that there has been a certain air of discontentment abt the amount the expats are asking for.
However I would like to point out that this unhappiness doesnt just stamp from the fact that the expats are asking for an increase in HA. This unhappiness has started from many smaller things
How many PF sectors have the expats captains actually given the FOs?? ask any FO, and i am sure you will get the answer.....
Do the expats captains (who are supposedly more experienced) actually help the progression of the other younger pilot he has beside him? or does he just treat him as a slave?
Are the rosters fair?
because laying over for 4 days in an outside station so that you can pay a visit to your family isnt fair when the local fellows only have 2days at home after a pattern
While i agree that majority of the people are generally nice pple, not all of them make nice pilots, and even less of them are good captains....
To be fair, i must agree that both sides do have a valid pt from their pts of view. HA should be paid to expats, that is true... everywhere in the world whether big or small there is at least some form of HA, cheap construction workers have their dorms, while rich IT managers can afford their condos. The rent in Singapore has truely been crazy and I am sure a lot of expats have been badly hit. I mean even if you had rented a place for 2yrs it is still a pain to move halfway through ur stint.
It is also true that there has been a certain air of discontentment abt the amount the expats are asking for.
However I would like to point out that this unhappiness doesnt just stamp from the fact that the expats are asking for an increase in HA. This unhappiness has started from many smaller things
How many PF sectors have the expats captains actually given the FOs?? ask any FO, and i am sure you will get the answer.....
Do the expats captains (who are supposedly more experienced) actually help the progression of the other younger pilot he has beside him? or does he just treat him as a slave?
Are the rosters fair?
because laying over for 4 days in an outside station so that you can pay a visit to your family isnt fair when the local fellows only have 2days at home after a pattern
While i agree that majority of the people are generally nice pple, not all of them make nice pilots, and even less of them are good captains....
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UAREAPIG?
You registered a new account to say all this.
You making the above true?
You registered a new account to say all this.
Having a bunch of anonymous nicks come in to "prove" the claims of other anonymous nicks, all with curiously similar styles of writing, just shows your collective level of intelligence. Any fool can register a bunch of nicks and have them talk to each other.
I just love it when one anonymous user with an anonymous registration email address climbs up on that big high horse................
Join Date: Jun 2001
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How many PF sectors have the expats captains actually given the FOs?? ask any FO, and i am sure you will get the answer.....
Do the expats captains (who are supposedly more experienced) actually help the progression of the other younger pilot he has beside him? or does he just treat him as a slave?
Do the expats captains (who are supposedly more experienced) actually help the progression of the other younger pilot he has beside him? or does he just treat him as a slave?
My last COP was 5 sectors. My local F/O got 4 of them. Why? Because he is keen, well prepared, has a great attitude and is pleasant to fly with. Not in any way subservient, sucking up to me or any other form of servile behaviour that you care to name - just a nice guy. If you don't get many PF sectors you might consider that statement.
Questions?
Notes for TI - though why we bother to humour him I don't know.
1. When 4PW's was editing his post (assuming 0609Z) re our condo I was airborne giving my local F/O his fourth PF sector out of 5 operating sectors.
2. I will pass on the gay comments to Mrs Bananas - she likes a good laugh.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 21st Sep 2007 at 19:49.
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THERMAL IMAGE
You misunderstood. BB did not accept anything. It was a request on his part and said request is denied. He doesn't need it. You do. After carefull consideration, I have decided (only for YOU) to not only pay for the beer and GIRL (or boy if that's what floats your boat), but also to pay for anger management therapy. You really do need to get out more. When "in town" on Friday nights, I can usually be found in Clarke Quay at Iguanas. Be happy to buy you a "grita" and then take you to "Orchard Towers". I think you could find something there that would interest you. And I'll have you home to your family by curfew time. One thing I won't pay for are acting lessons. You must really be good at hiding your anger and resentment while on the flight deck. Since you have challenged others here, I challenge you to express your "true" feelings to the ex-pat asshole sitting next to you next time you go to work.
Now, who's the hypocrite?
PQ
You misunderstood. BB did not accept anything. It was a request on his part and said request is denied. He doesn't need it. You do. After carefull consideration, I have decided (only for YOU) to not only pay for the beer and GIRL (or boy if that's what floats your boat), but also to pay for anger management therapy. You really do need to get out more. When "in town" on Friday nights, I can usually be found in Clarke Quay at Iguanas. Be happy to buy you a "grita" and then take you to "Orchard Towers". I think you could find something there that would interest you. And I'll have you home to your family by curfew time. One thing I won't pay for are acting lessons. You must really be good at hiding your anger and resentment while on the flight deck. Since you have challenged others here, I challenge you to express your "true" feelings to the ex-pat asshole sitting next to you next time you go to work.
Now, who's the hypocrite?
PQ
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UAREAPIG
What planet did you just come in from? 4-day layovers at home to see mom and the kids? Since joining this esteemed outfit, I have had a sum total of three layovers "near" my family, none being of a 4 day duration. Meanwhile, every time a local comes home to SIN, he is "home". And for more than 2 days every month. Fair has nothing to do with it.
Your comment regarding ex-pat captains helping the "progression" of FOs? What exactly do you mean? The aircraft we fly is a B-744F, NOT a T-744F. And we just don't fly in the local training airspace.
And finally regarding sectors, on my trips, I start out and then alternate every other leg with the FO. That is as long as the guy next to me knows what the f--k he's doing and can fly basic airplane. I wasn't hired to be an instructor. That's SIA's job.
How are things done in "wonderful India"?
PQ
What planet did you just come in from? 4-day layovers at home to see mom and the kids? Since joining this esteemed outfit, I have had a sum total of three layovers "near" my family, none being of a 4 day duration. Meanwhile, every time a local comes home to SIN, he is "home". And for more than 2 days every month. Fair has nothing to do with it.
Your comment regarding ex-pat captains helping the "progression" of FOs? What exactly do you mean? The aircraft we fly is a B-744F, NOT a T-744F. And we just don't fly in the local training airspace.
And finally regarding sectors, on my trips, I start out and then alternate every other leg with the FO. That is as long as the guy next to me knows what the f--k he's doing and can fly basic airplane. I wasn't hired to be an instructor. That's SIA's job.
How are things done in "wonderful India"?
PQ
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Thanks for that PQ.
You make some very good points.
Now, for TI, UREAPIG et al. Can we please get back to the thread and discuss Housing Allowance.
I move that it is insufficient and that any company that gave a damn about its employees would have already introduced measures to mitigate the crippling rental increases effectively forced on tenants at tenancy renewal.
Discuss!
You make some very good points.
Now, for TI, UREAPIG et al. Can we please get back to the thread and discuss Housing Allowance.
I move that it is insufficient and that any company that gave a damn about its employees would have already introduced measures to mitigate the crippling rental increases effectively forced on tenants at tenancy renewal.
Discuss!
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HOUSING ALLOWANCE
The discussion seems to center on two related issues: Is the amount enough and quality of living accomodation? It's all relative. What TI and undoubtedly many other locals (Captains, Foes, HR managers, Chief Pilots alike) don't realize, is that the ex-pats SIA hire are used to a certain standard of accomodation back home. It has nothing to do with if a HDB flat is "good enough" for us. Why would I take a job anywhere if I thought I would have to pay more than 15-20% of my pay for living accomodation of a standard I am not only used to but what I want? Why would I go down in standard of accomodation at this stage of my life? I have worked hard and been fortunate enough to be able to own and live in landed houses since 1974. I would not have come here if my salary would not support that standard.
Would TI take a job in a foreign country where his salary would allow him to only afford a standard of accomodation of say a kampong hut, assuming he is used to a HDB flat standard? I think not? Would an executive come to Singapore to take a job if he is used to a 10,000 sq/ft mansion at home and all his employer would give him in Singapore is enough to afford the level of the kind of house that I am living in here? I doubt it.
TI has also thrown out the race card. FYI TI, I'm the only white/round-eye on my street. Since coming here, I have not heard one word from ANY ex-pat that could even be considered remotely racist regarding locals. Does TI have a problem with people not of his ethnic origin?
Finally, my lease expires next Summer. If the rent goes up more than a $1000 or if that standard of accomodation somewhere else in SIN is not available within my budget (not SIA's), I'm outta here. Bond notwithstanding.
PQ
PS: To the pundits that claim we knew what we were getting into when we signed on the dotted line, so don't whine: There is no way we could have forseen a cost of housing increase of 30% a few years into our contracts, nor a deficit of 10-15% in earnings from that which was advertised.
The discussion seems to center on two related issues: Is the amount enough and quality of living accomodation? It's all relative. What TI and undoubtedly many other locals (Captains, Foes, HR managers, Chief Pilots alike) don't realize, is that the ex-pats SIA hire are used to a certain standard of accomodation back home. It has nothing to do with if a HDB flat is "good enough" for us. Why would I take a job anywhere if I thought I would have to pay more than 15-20% of my pay for living accomodation of a standard I am not only used to but what I want? Why would I go down in standard of accomodation at this stage of my life? I have worked hard and been fortunate enough to be able to own and live in landed houses since 1974. I would not have come here if my salary would not support that standard.
Would TI take a job in a foreign country where his salary would allow him to only afford a standard of accomodation of say a kampong hut, assuming he is used to a HDB flat standard? I think not? Would an executive come to Singapore to take a job if he is used to a 10,000 sq/ft mansion at home and all his employer would give him in Singapore is enough to afford the level of the kind of house that I am living in here? I doubt it.
TI has also thrown out the race card. FYI TI, I'm the only white/round-eye on my street. Since coming here, I have not heard one word from ANY ex-pat that could even be considered remotely racist regarding locals. Does TI have a problem with people not of his ethnic origin?
Finally, my lease expires next Summer. If the rent goes up more than a $1000 or if that standard of accomodation somewhere else in SIN is not available within my budget (not SIA's), I'm outta here. Bond notwithstanding.
PQ
PS: To the pundits that claim we knew what we were getting into when we signed on the dotted line, so don't whine: There is no way we could have forseen a cost of housing increase of 30% a few years into our contracts, nor a deficit of 10-15% in earnings from that which was advertised.
Last edited by portquartercv67; 22nd Sep 2007 at 12:29.
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A couple of years ago the Roxy was offering Bed & Breakfast at $100 per night or a month for $2700. I will let you know later today what their current rate is.
Hot off the press:
Same room is now $160 per night. No official monthly rate but I am advised that it should be about $4500.
Hot off the press:
Same room is now $160 per night. No official monthly rate but I am advised that it should be about $4500.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 24th Sep 2007 at 12:47.
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guys,
come over to changi/loyang side. there are six condos grouped on flora road/drive itself. rental for a 2 bedroom 1000 sqft condo range from 1800-2200, 3 bed room 1200-1400 sqft from 2500-3000 per month.
pool,tennis,squash,gym,bbq park,shuttle to mrt and 7mins to airport by cab. they are azalea park,ballota park,carissa park,avila garden,dhalia park etc.
*by the way, i am a local (not fr india) and expat/local captains i flown with ALL gladly gave sectors unless their own currency restricted. appreciated!
come over to changi/loyang side. there are six condos grouped on flora road/drive itself. rental for a 2 bedroom 1000 sqft condo range from 1800-2200, 3 bed room 1200-1400 sqft from 2500-3000 per month.
pool,tennis,squash,gym,bbq park,shuttle to mrt and 7mins to airport by cab. they are azalea park,ballota park,carissa park,avila garden,dhalia park etc.
*by the way, i am a local (not fr india) and expat/local captains i flown with ALL gladly gave sectors unless their own currency restricted. appreciated!
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Thanks NF. It doesn't really help expats who are already settled though.
If they are coming up for tenancy renewal with children / wife settled in nearby schools / social settings etc it does seem unfair to expect people to move home just because SIA Cargo Housing Allowance has become inadequate. My view is quite simple. If the Housing Allowance covered the rental initially, it should also cover it at renewal.
That is also what the expat contract implies.
If they are coming up for tenancy renewal with children / wife settled in nearby schools / social settings etc it does seem unfair to expect people to move home just because SIA Cargo Housing Allowance has become inadequate. My view is quite simple. If the Housing Allowance covered the rental initially, it should also cover it at renewal.
That is also what the expat contract implies.
Last edited by BANANASBANANAS; 29th Oct 2007 at 01:47.
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Somewhat true BB; but NF has a point. There are school buses ( Singapore is only 40 mins drive from somewhere to anywhere ) and an efficient transport system exists.
There is an excess of crew on the mainline fleet and destinations are also reducing. Cargo is sometimes a 'feast or famine' business and profit is hard to achieve - be careful not to price yourself out of work, despite the contractual impressions. Besides SQ has a 'history' with their contractual obligations !
This property hike will not last forever - plenty of expats moved in the mid 90's ( I daresay with some regret ); be wise and make the most of the property resources available and keep yourself viable.
Sorry if it hurts or appears unsympathetic (it's not the intent) - life is a compromise.
There is an excess of crew on the mainline fleet and destinations are also reducing. Cargo is sometimes a 'feast or famine' business and profit is hard to achieve - be careful not to price yourself out of work, despite the contractual impressions. Besides SQ has a 'history' with their contractual obligations !
This property hike will not last forever - plenty of expats moved in the mid 90's ( I daresay with some regret ); be wise and make the most of the property resources available and keep yourself viable.
Sorry if it hurts or appears unsympathetic (it's not the intent) - life is a compromise.
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Fair points Highlander - to a degree.
I don't think anyone is expecting an increase in Housing Allowance of at least 50%, which is how much the URA rental index has increased in just over 2 years but the $200 per month increase is rightly viewed as an insult by most Cargo pilots.
Rather than pilots pricing themselves out of work, I would suggest that SIA C is starting to price itself out of pilots.
I don't think anyone is expecting an increase in Housing Allowance of at least 50%, which is how much the URA rental index has increased in just over 2 years but the $200 per month increase is rightly viewed as an insult by most Cargo pilots.
Rather than pilots pricing themselves out of work, I would suggest that SIA C is starting to price itself out of pilots.
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Just a quick point wrt bussing...Not all areas have coverage for some schools, and that makes it harder to move farther away from the popular areas. Where we live, school bus 'fees' are 2K per year!....adds to the CoL doesn't it?