Tiger Airways
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Tiger Airways
Can anyone out there in Tiger give me an idea of what it's like there. I have applied but the huge volume of paperwork is enough to put anyone off. The new pay deal sounds good but over on a BMIBaby thread on the main forum there's a story that a senior training captain from Baby is joining Tiger. Not surprising I suppose as the new CEO came from Baby. Does anyone know whats going on. Is there a big shakeup in Tiger? It all seems good and secure from the outside and the pilot managers I spoke to were great. I'm planning to move my family to Singapore from the UK but if there's an upheaval in Tiger perhaps this is not the time to do it. Any info there Tiger pilots? What's going on?
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jet2easybaby
You might like to look at the Jet Star Asia package - I understand that it's a lot better than the present A320 Tiger package.
Also Singapore based A320 operator Jet Star has an Oz ethos rather than a Singaporean one - see the thousands of previous postings on Temasek (Singapore Government) owned Singapore Airlines - and is much less likely to unilaterally change the pilot employment contract (always for the worse) than is similarly Temasek owned and controlled Tiger.
As you probably realise, Tiger has been having huge difficulty attracting pilots, due in no small part to the derisorily small package initially on offer and born of the beloved and all consuming market forces philosophy. These self same forces have obliged Tiger management to improve the package (it's not because they love pilots!), so I'd wait around for a while, if you're presently in employment, and see if the "force" improves things further.
Please also bear in mind that living expenses are quite high in Singapore.
Best of luck.
You might like to look at the Jet Star Asia package - I understand that it's a lot better than the present A320 Tiger package.
Also Singapore based A320 operator Jet Star has an Oz ethos rather than a Singaporean one - see the thousands of previous postings on Temasek (Singapore Government) owned Singapore Airlines - and is much less likely to unilaterally change the pilot employment contract (always for the worse) than is similarly Temasek owned and controlled Tiger.
As you probably realise, Tiger has been having huge difficulty attracting pilots, due in no small part to the derisorily small package initially on offer and born of the beloved and all consuming market forces philosophy. These self same forces have obliged Tiger management to improve the package (it's not because they love pilots!), so I'd wait around for a while, if you're presently in employment, and see if the "force" improves things further.
Please also bear in mind that living expenses are quite high in Singapore.
Best of luck.
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jet2easybaby
Take heed of what High Cirrus has said. I find it hard to believe that you are seriously considering joining Tiger from the UK.
The package for someone who has children to educate is dreadful.
As an A320 Rated Pilot ? you can do a lot better elsewhere. Jetstar might be worth looking at for the reasons stated by High Cirrus.
Take heed of what High Cirrus has said. I find it hard to believe that you are seriously considering joining Tiger from the UK.
The package for someone who has children to educate is dreadful.
As an A320 Rated Pilot ? you can do a lot better elsewhere. Jetstar might be worth looking at for the reasons stated by High Cirrus.
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Thanks Cirrus and Court. I have done the research on salary and Tiger's is better than Jetstar's deal but without the Qantas concessions which is a consideration. The new deal for Capts in Tiger pays better than either Jetstar, Valuair or even Silkair but you have to work 90 hrs or more a month to get it but that's the case with all the Locos. Valuair's deal is crap compared with the others. The Capts there are working their butts off for about 2,500 - 3000 a month less than Jetstar or Tiger at the same hours.
I have heard of problems in SIA in the past but havent they done a new pay deal too? I believe this is a seperate operation and that SIA doesn't interfere in running Tiger. The education cost doesn't bother me as I don't have any kids. Anyway many thanks for the advice.
I have heard of problems in SIA in the past but havent they done a new pay deal too? I believe this is a seperate operation and that SIA doesn't interfere in running Tiger. The education cost doesn't bother me as I don't have any kids. Anyway many thanks for the advice.
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jet2easybaby
Sounds like you’re well organised and if you have an A320 rating and don’t have kids, then you can give notice to quit right away if and when Tiger start screwing around with the package or contract. If you don’t have a rating, then they will have you by the short and curlies and you’ll be something of a hostage (like the rest of us). If you’re coming from UK, also remember the current Ł/S$ exchange rate of 1/3.08
I think you’ll work pretty hard (85-90 hrs a month, on short sectors) but if you want to rack up the hours, it should be alright for two or three years before you move into something other than burn-out.
You should know that you would not be working for a straightforward commercial company but an arm of Singapore Government policy and as such, the management of the airline is always subject to direct intervention from the very top – just like in stable mate SIA!
Finally, contrary to what you might have heard, the SIA pay “deal” has not yet been ratified and we still await cash owed to us from the SARS imbroglio of two tears ago. I use parenthesis for the word which in normal circumstances would strongly imply a “win-win” situation for both parties. However, nothing to do with SIA is ever “normal” and once again us pilots will eventually have a detrimental Collective Agreement shoved down our necks, made even more unsavoury to the ang mohs by the further erosion of the ex-pat package. Plus ça change.
Sounds like you’re well organised and if you have an A320 rating and don’t have kids, then you can give notice to quit right away if and when Tiger start screwing around with the package or contract. If you don’t have a rating, then they will have you by the short and curlies and you’ll be something of a hostage (like the rest of us). If you’re coming from UK, also remember the current Ł/S$ exchange rate of 1/3.08
I think you’ll work pretty hard (85-90 hrs a month, on short sectors) but if you want to rack up the hours, it should be alright for two or three years before you move into something other than burn-out.
You should know that you would not be working for a straightforward commercial company but an arm of Singapore Government policy and as such, the management of the airline is always subject to direct intervention from the very top – just like in stable mate SIA!
Finally, contrary to what you might have heard, the SIA pay “deal” has not yet been ratified and we still await cash owed to us from the SARS imbroglio of two tears ago. I use parenthesis for the word which in normal circumstances would strongly imply a “win-win” situation for both parties. However, nothing to do with SIA is ever “normal” and once again us pilots will eventually have a detrimental Collective Agreement shoved down our necks, made even more unsavoury to the ang mohs by the further erosion of the ex-pat package. Plus ça change.
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My enquiries showed Valuair just ahead of Jetstar if you have a couple of kids for salary but, Jetstar ahead in security,concessions, flexibility of being able to choose schedules , and management / employee relations.
Have heard that Tiger pilots have jumped ship for Jetstar in droves.
What is the new pay deal at Tiger ?
Is it for permanents or just short term contractors?
It was laughable a few months ago and you had to pay for your own training .
Any truth to the rumour that Jetstar are looking at bigger airbusses to go into China and India? 330's maybe ??
Have heard that Tiger pilots have jumped ship for Jetstar in droves.
What is the new pay deal at Tiger ?
Is it for permanents or just short term contractors?
It was laughable a few months ago and you had to pay for your own training .
Any truth to the rumour that Jetstar are looking at bigger airbusses to go into China and India? 330's maybe ??
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I think the point is made that all these Singapore A320 carriers are starting to realise that rated, experience pilots are not “a dime a dozen” and thus easily replaceable, as then Senior Minister (now Minister Mentor) Lee Kuan Yew was famously noted as suggesting, a couple of years ago and that despite, quote, “thinking themselves special and having large egos” (so he said he’d been told at the time), the carriers will need to ante-up even more than ever to get the numbers of this much maligned breed they now so require.
I take the liberty of including my own far less august quote of 5 February:
“As you probably realise, Tiger has been having huge difficulty attracting pilots, due in no small part to the derisorily small package initially on offer and born of the beloved and all consuming market forces philosophy. These self same forces have obliged Tiger management to improve the package (it's not because they love pilots!), so I'd wait around for a while, if you're presently in employment, and see if the "force" improves things further.”
Don’t be in too much of a rush guys and gals, especially if you’re in employment and most certainly go for an outfit that treats you properly (we in SQ know all about this!).
Let the “force” be with you.
I take the liberty of including my own far less august quote of 5 February:
“As you probably realise, Tiger has been having huge difficulty attracting pilots, due in no small part to the derisorily small package initially on offer and born of the beloved and all consuming market forces philosophy. These self same forces have obliged Tiger management to improve the package (it's not because they love pilots!), so I'd wait around for a while, if you're presently in employment, and see if the "force" improves things further.”
Don’t be in too much of a rush guys and gals, especially if you’re in employment and most certainly go for an outfit that treats you properly (we in SQ know all about this!).
Let the “force” be with you.
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International Trader
I've been quoted a fixed salary of $10K (per month) which would include the first 60 hrs per month. After that, $275 an hour which would give over 20K for 95 hrs wich it seems all the locos will be doing. valuair's is around 18K for the same hrs unless they've upped the ante in the past few weeks. There are no other payments or allowances such as housing or insurance but they offer unlimited free travel on Tiger's services.
Tiger is now talking about a training bond instead of bank guarantee which I believe they and SIA have at present. I've been told all this is subject to approval from the top. I'm not type rated, so I do expect to have some restrictions on leaving - bond etc - for a few years. If pilots are leaving in droves for Jetstar it doesn't sound too healthy. How many have they lost?
High Cirrus
Many thanks for the advice and info. It looks like things in Singapore are not as simple as they appear from outside. I didn't realise that the Government was so active in SIA. Could any current Tiger pilots there like to give us an idea of what it is really like from the horse's mouth so to speak.
I've been quoted a fixed salary of $10K (per month) which would include the first 60 hrs per month. After that, $275 an hour which would give over 20K for 95 hrs wich it seems all the locos will be doing. valuair's is around 18K for the same hrs unless they've upped the ante in the past few weeks. There are no other payments or allowances such as housing or insurance but they offer unlimited free travel on Tiger's services.
Tiger is now talking about a training bond instead of bank guarantee which I believe they and SIA have at present. I've been told all this is subject to approval from the top. I'm not type rated, so I do expect to have some restrictions on leaving - bond etc - for a few years. If pilots are leaving in droves for Jetstar it doesn't sound too healthy. How many have they lost?
High Cirrus
Many thanks for the advice and info. It looks like things in Singapore are not as simple as they appear from outside. I didn't realise that the Government was so active in SIA. Could any current Tiger pilots there like to give us an idea of what it is really like from the horse's mouth so to speak.
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High Cirrus
Pilots not " a dime a dozen" That sounds like a 411A quote that Senior Minister now Mentor stole from him!!
Anyone getting involved in any Airline that the Singapore Government owns or has a part share in through Temasek Holdings needs to be aware that T & C 's can change at a moments notice.
As High Cirrus says if employed hold off a while as it could pay to wait.
How long would you survive doing 95 hours a month of Short Haul?
Pilots not " a dime a dozen" That sounds like a 411A quote that Senior Minister now Mentor stole from him!!
Anyone getting involved in any Airline that the Singapore Government owns or has a part share in through Temasek Holdings needs to be aware that T & C 's can change at a moments notice.
As High Cirrus says if employed hold off a while as it could pay to wait.
How long would you survive doing 95 hours a month of Short Haul?
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Millers
Thanks for the advice. I knew that the Lee family controlled the economy and it seemed to be for the better. Obviously, not so from your post.
Looks like I'll have to put up with the UK weather for a while longer. The devil you know, frying pans and fires etc
Thanks for the advice. I knew that the Lee family controlled the economy and it seemed to be for the better. Obviously, not so from your post.
Looks like I'll have to put up with the UK weather for a while longer. The devil you know, frying pans and fires etc
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jet2easybaby
In deference to the sensibilities of 411A and the Minister Mentor, both of whom, I understand, may lay claim to the provenance of the aphorism “a dime a dozen”, I will state instead that the prevailing sentiment within the higher echelons of Government, here in Wonderland, is that pilots remain “ten a penny” and will therefore continue to receive the dismissive treatment and derisory packages befitting such a disposable commodity.
As previously mentioned, it will only be the beloved market force which will oblige the Queen of Hearts to change the rules (again!) and reappraise remuneration scales in response to the dearth of suitable applicants. After all, pilots can hardly be ordered to join can they? The compulsive nature of airline life here only starts when in-country and bank guaranteed and bonded to the eyeballs!
As previously suggested, best stay on Tony’s sceptred isle a while longer, rather than jump to this one. After all, MM has big expansion plans for the low-costs out here and is going to need a lot of well qualified manpower to make it all happen.
So like I’ve also said before – let the force (market) be with you.
In deference to the sensibilities of 411A and the Minister Mentor, both of whom, I understand, may lay claim to the provenance of the aphorism “a dime a dozen”, I will state instead that the prevailing sentiment within the higher echelons of Government, here in Wonderland, is that pilots remain “ten a penny” and will therefore continue to receive the dismissive treatment and derisory packages befitting such a disposable commodity.
As previously mentioned, it will only be the beloved market force which will oblige the Queen of Hearts to change the rules (again!) and reappraise remuneration scales in response to the dearth of suitable applicants. After all, pilots can hardly be ordered to join can they? The compulsive nature of airline life here only starts when in-country and bank guaranteed and bonded to the eyeballs!
As previously suggested, best stay on Tony’s sceptred isle a while longer, rather than jump to this one. After all, MM has big expansion plans for the low-costs out here and is going to need a lot of well qualified manpower to make it all happen.
So like I’ve also said before – let the force (market) be with you.
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noflow
I'm certainly no genius but I have the gumption to type in "jetstar" to the Google search request box, hit search and lo and behold see Jet Star Asia (you know, the airline refered to in the previous posts in this thread) magically appear.
If I can do this, why can't you?
I'm certainly no genius but I have the gumption to type in "jetstar" to the Google search request box, hit search and lo and behold see Jet Star Asia (you know, the airline refered to in the previous posts in this thread) magically appear.
If I can do this, why can't you?
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