Malayan Airways: "For Half the Pay"
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777
I have the advantage of you, I know the author of this thread, and it is my guess that he has been closer to more aircraft types than you have ever seen. Of couse that is if we accept that you have ever been closer that 50 feet to one.
Next time I see him I will tell him not to use such long words, you clearly have difficulty with the understanding.
I have the advantage of you, I know the author of this thread, and it is my guess that he has been closer to more aircraft types than you have ever seen. Of couse that is if we accept that you have ever been closer that 50 feet to one.
Next time I see him I will tell him not to use such long words, you clearly have difficulty with the understanding.
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sorry old chap, who the hell are you?
you mean he pays you to speak on his behalf? haven't you got something better to do with your life?
surely, a man capable of correcting others can speak for himself.
or are you the office idiot? who just could not let go of your old boss?
i directed my post at him not you but since you have decided to champion his 'glorious' self, i also hold you at task for encouraging ppl like him.
even if it's true, that he has flown 50ft of airplane or rather an airplane at 50ft, never mind, whatever, are you also of the belief that you too should be paid half of what was given you over the years?
since he is not here, and you opened your big mouth, i guess i will have to ask you.
long words? i think we here call it verbal diarrhea. that's ****s to you mate!! you understand?
you mean he pays you to speak on his behalf? haven't you got something better to do with your life?
surely, a man capable of correcting others can speak for himself.
or are you the office idiot? who just could not let go of your old boss?
i directed my post at him not you but since you have decided to champion his 'glorious' self, i also hold you at task for encouraging ppl like him.
even if it's true, that he has flown 50ft of airplane or rather an airplane at 50ft, never mind, whatever, are you also of the belief that you too should be paid half of what was given you over the years?
since he is not here, and you opened your big mouth, i guess i will have to ask you.
long words? i think we here call it verbal diarrhea. that's ****s to you mate!! you understand?
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b777 pilot:
OK go ahead and give me a hard time but you don't seem to have taken on board what I previously said to you quote: "I actually agree with some of the things you say" unquote.
If your nom de plume is any indication then you are flying the best piece of equipment there is and your salary and conditions would reflect this. What do I have to say to make you realise how lucky you are? Regards,
Bonzaman:
Thanks for taking up the cudgell on my behalf. Beligerence set in concrete is how I see that noisy small percentage of fully extended strugglers. Perhaps it may be possible to salvage b777 pilot but I do wish he would stop swearing at me. Regards,
Prince of Dzun
OK go ahead and give me a hard time but you don't seem to have taken on board what I previously said to you quote: "I actually agree with some of the things you say" unquote.
If your nom de plume is any indication then you are flying the best piece of equipment there is and your salary and conditions would reflect this. What do I have to say to make you realise how lucky you are? Regards,
Bonzaman:
Thanks for taking up the cudgell on my behalf. Beligerence set in concrete is how I see that noisy small percentage of fully extended strugglers. Perhaps it may be possible to salvage b777 pilot but I do wish he would stop swearing at me. Regards,
Prince of Dzun
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777
My apologies for breaking into your forum, I thought this was an open discussion.
One more thing, after carefully reading your comments it is obvious that you have a very miserable life, I hope things improve for you.
millerscourt.
That was a very clever remark, did you write it yourself or did your parents help you?
My apologies for breaking into your forum, I thought this was an open discussion.
One more thing, after carefully reading your comments it is obvious that you have a very miserable life, I hope things improve for you.
millerscourt.
That was a very clever remark, did you write it yourself or did your parents help you?
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swear? i haven't even started!
now that you are representing yourself, could we get back to your original post?
why after 35 years, did you realise that you deserve only half your pay?
how did you pass judgement on ppl who do not deserve to be in aviation?
(and oh, bonzaman, there a bit of brown crud stuck to your nose. you might want to clean that up.)
i don't care who you are. like i said, you might even be a just recently retired tyrant from ...
i just want to debate your issue which you have side-step entirely.
and oh yes, you can call a friend.
bonzaman? why not?
now that you are representing yourself, could we get back to your original post?
why after 35 years, did you realise that you deserve only half your pay?
how did you pass judgement on ppl who do not deserve to be in aviation?
(and oh, bonzaman, there a bit of brown crud stuck to your nose. you might want to clean that up.)
i don't care who you are. like i said, you might even be a just recently retired tyrant from ...
i just want to debate your issue which you have side-step entirely.
and oh yes, you can call a friend.
bonzaman? why not?
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
....had not the pioneers. the Prince among them, not achieved what they did, with the aircraft and facilities available to them, you would not be flying in your shiny glass cockpit today.
NDB approaches were designed to PROTECT pax (and crew) from the likes of the Cowboy of Dzun and others - a few of whom I flew with some 25 or so years ago prior to their termination, due to their desire to "do their own thing".
Or was it, in truth, an INABILTY to be able to come up to the new standards in a changing world.
I don`t regard the type of careless exploits described by your hero as pioneering - I wouldn`t classify beat ups "along the beaches at 1000' or less", as forging new frontiers that would in any way add anything postive to aviation safety.
In fact, it reeks more of the "press on regardless" syndrome that have cost many pilots and their charges their lives since the dawn of aviation.
In reality, he was probably WORTH only half the pay!
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Many years ago I read and was inspired by the work of E.K. Gann, “Fate is the Hunter”, there was a hiatus in my appreciation of pioneering aviators until I came upon the writings of the Prince of Dzun on this board, he has moved the scene of E.K. Gann’s adventures to a place much closer to my present home, Malaya and Borneo, or Peninsular and East Malaysia as it these days.
I would suggest that you read his postings in the spirit of those other pioneers long gone and be thankful that we still have someone here to tell us how the great industry of aviation got started and demonstrated its ability to spread civilisation to the darkest part of the jungle.
Malaysia Airlines has continued in that spirit and still provides a service into the jungle, at considerable financial loss, and it still pays its pilots, however I cannot tell you what their thoughts are as they pass over that natural beauty. Perhaps in a moment of euphoria they would also “…do this for half the pay…”
The drivel that has since followed amazes me, just one example sets the tone for the rest, the writer has confused “beauty of this route” with “beat up’s” along the beach.
So please read the post and enjoy the tale that is told, it’s living history.
Sultan Ismail
I would suggest that you read his postings in the spirit of those other pioneers long gone and be thankful that we still have someone here to tell us how the great industry of aviation got started and demonstrated its ability to spread civilisation to the darkest part of the jungle.
Malaysia Airlines has continued in that spirit and still provides a service into the jungle, at considerable financial loss, and it still pays its pilots, however I cannot tell you what their thoughts are as they pass over that natural beauty. Perhaps in a moment of euphoria they would also “…do this for half the pay…”
The drivel that has since followed amazes me, just one example sets the tone for the rest, the writer has confused “beauty of this route” with “beat up’s” along the beach.
So please read the post and enjoy the tale that is told, it’s living history.
Sultan Ismail
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datuk, there lies the problem.
if he only told his stories, without insulting the rest of us, i would not have bothered.
why i would buy him a beer if our paths should cross. i occasionally tell the younger guys a story or two whilst leaning at the bar....
but to say that some do not belong in aviation (according to his yardstick) and that he would do it for half the pay is a bit mucking fuch.
in truth, i tell you, i was trained by aviators of that era.
but never, have i heard them say things like this. even when they were pissed in the worst possible way. they impressed upon us to strive for the very highest standards, because it was the pillar of our trade.
i deserve each and every ringgit i earn, and so do a lot of contributors here.
i just want to know why it took 35 years? that's all.
if he only told his stories, without insulting the rest of us, i would not have bothered.
why i would buy him a beer if our paths should cross. i occasionally tell the younger guys a story or two whilst leaning at the bar....
but to say that some do not belong in aviation (according to his yardstick) and that he would do it for half the pay is a bit mucking fuch.
in truth, i tell you, i was trained by aviators of that era.
but never, have i heard them say things like this. even when they were pissed in the worst possible way. they impressed upon us to strive for the very highest standards, because it was the pillar of our trade.
i deserve each and every ringgit i earn, and so do a lot of contributors here.
i just want to know why it took 35 years? that's all.
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Bonzaman
Seeing as how you brought up the subject of "Parents" I am just wondering whether you ever knew yours?
I suggest you lighten up a little and don't take everything so seriously.
Seeing as how you brought up the subject of "Parents" I am just wondering whether you ever knew yours?
I suggest you lighten up a little and don't take everything so seriously.
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Sultan Ismail:
You have restored my faith in aviators just as I was beginning to think they had all been gobbled up by some sort of geni. It would be interesting to find out if the detractors on these boards know of the impeccable record of Malayan Airways. The winged Tiger flew from 1947 to 1967 for a total of twenty years and during all that time there was not a single aircraft or passenger as much as scratched. The Cumberbatch Trophy an international aviation safety award would not have been granted for nothing. There is still much to be told, all of which I am both proud and happy to have been a part of but with the infestation of recently surfaced "old women" one despairs that it will soon be forgotten.
Imagine the vitriol from Kaptain M and his ilk if I was to write the details associated with a night flight from Penang to Singapore in a fully laden F27 when I was obliged to shut down an engine not long after take off. The flight continued and proceeded on one engine to overfly two perfectly good airfields at Kuala Lumpur and Malacca with the passengers blissfully unaware. Without even knowing the circumstances he would say "the actions of a cowboy who wanted to get home". He would say that because it's not in his blood to appreciate how things were in those days. Fortunately there are still people like you who can.
Regards,
Prince of Dzun
You have restored my faith in aviators just as I was beginning to think they had all been gobbled up by some sort of geni. It would be interesting to find out if the detractors on these boards know of the impeccable record of Malayan Airways. The winged Tiger flew from 1947 to 1967 for a total of twenty years and during all that time there was not a single aircraft or passenger as much as scratched. The Cumberbatch Trophy an international aviation safety award would not have been granted for nothing. There is still much to be told, all of which I am both proud and happy to have been a part of but with the infestation of recently surfaced "old women" one despairs that it will soon be forgotten.
Imagine the vitriol from Kaptain M and his ilk if I was to write the details associated with a night flight from Penang to Singapore in a fully laden F27 when I was obliged to shut down an engine not long after take off. The flight continued and proceeded on one engine to overfly two perfectly good airfields at Kuala Lumpur and Malacca with the passengers blissfully unaware. Without even knowing the circumstances he would say "the actions of a cowboy who wanted to get home". He would say that because it's not in his blood to appreciate how things were in those days. Fortunately there are still people like you who can.
Regards,
Prince of Dzun
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
"...a fully laden F27 when I was obliged to shut down an engine not long after take off. The flight continued and proceeded on one engine to overfly two perfectly good airfields at Kuala Lumpur and Malacca.."
Proving precisely what? That - your mind - you think you are some sort of superhuman being?
That confession merely confirms my earlier assertion, you were an accident looking for somewhere to happen, but which didn`t only through the grace of God.
If there had been some relevant operational reason for choosing to overfly KUL and Malacca, you might care to enlighten us.
Otherwise you stand guilty as accused, of unprofessional cowboy antics.
Proving precisely what? That - your mind - you think you are some sort of superhuman being?
That confession merely confirms my earlier assertion, you were an accident looking for somewhere to happen, but which didn`t only through the grace of God.
If there had been some relevant operational reason for choosing to overfly KUL and Malacca, you might care to enlighten us.
Otherwise you stand guilty as accused, of unprofessional cowboy antics.
Last edited by Kaptin M; 26th Feb 2004 at 19:52.
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I could not believe my eyes to know a cowboy who is still proud he got away with his reckless antics. This cowboy would have got nailed thru and proper if he were to do all this in our present aviation climate.
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it keeps getting better
whoa i says!!!
holy ****! old chap, you seem proud of this reckless exploit. if only the pasengers knew.....yes, indeed. (horror of horrors, some of our loved ones could have been on that flight!)
who was that again that wrote to attest of your 'contributions' to commercial aviation?
like i said, you have not backed up your orig thread and you have not cleared the air over who should not be in aviation.
based on what you wrote, under no duress, i know who should not have been in aviation.
i take back what i said about you writing only stories and nothing industrial, you may want to stop telling stories completely, if it reflects so badly on our profession.
you is one lucky b....... for surviving that one. (if that was for real, of course. hmmm, i have my doubts still.)
holy ****! old chap, you seem proud of this reckless exploit. if only the pasengers knew.....yes, indeed. (horror of horrors, some of our loved ones could have been on that flight!)
who was that again that wrote to attest of your 'contributions' to commercial aviation?
like i said, you have not backed up your orig thread and you have not cleared the air over who should not be in aviation.
based on what you wrote, under no duress, i know who should not have been in aviation.
i take back what i said about you writing only stories and nothing industrial, you may want to stop telling stories completely, if it reflects so badly on our profession.
you is one lucky b....... for surviving that one. (if that was for real, of course. hmmm, i have my doubts still.)
Moderate, Modest & Mild.
More and more, I'm getting the feeling that this thread might be something that should be in Jet Bast.
How could pax in a "in a fully laden F27" be "blissfully unaware" that one engine had been shut down, on an F27? A feathered, very slow rotating prop, along with the associated lack of noise, and the required wing high/low attitude in the case of an engine failure on that type, would make it near to impossible for pax to miss.
Notice that our cowboy selects his words very carefully though.
He doesn't actually say that the Fokker had a full load of passengers, but rather that it was "a fully laden F27" (a freighter?), and that the pax (sheep? pigs?) were "unaware".
But regardless, he chose to overfly "two perfectly good airfields".
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps there was good reason for electing to do this. Perhaps flares weren't available, or they weren't manned at the time he was airborne.
C'mon Prince, please enlighten us with your reasons for NOT landing "at the nearest suitable airport", after shutting down one of the two Darts.
How could pax in a "in a fully laden F27" be "blissfully unaware" that one engine had been shut down, on an F27? A feathered, very slow rotating prop, along with the associated lack of noise, and the required wing high/low attitude in the case of an engine failure on that type, would make it near to impossible for pax to miss.
Notice that our cowboy selects his words very carefully though.
in a fully laden F27 when I was obliged to shut down an engine not long after take off. The flight continued and proceeded on one engine to overfly two perfectly good airfields at Kuala Lumpur and Malacca with the passengers blissfully unaware.
But regardless, he chose to overfly "two perfectly good airfields".
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, perhaps there was good reason for electing to do this. Perhaps flares weren't available, or they weren't manned at the time he was airborne.
C'mon Prince, please enlighten us with your reasons for NOT landing "at the nearest suitable airport", after shutting down one of the two Darts.
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Gentlemen,
Please allow me to get trough the opinions placed on this tread. I ask you also to be kind enough to forgive my bad "english accent" as I spent my thirty two year career flying in the opposite side of the world.
I enjoyed the tales of Prince of Dzun. I can remember the times when the real good mates could land a DC3 on the three points because the short strips on the Rain Forest were flooded. It was a time when Vref was only a reference and the pilots didn't be afraid looking the airspeed coming down close to the ground. In our jargon in this part of the world we say that this means to feel the aircraft in your a**
I feel that I am one of those transition types. I flew DC3's, Lookeed Electras, B727's and a lot of hours in EFIS operations. I can remember the good old mates that landed the B727 with flaps 40 on very short runways after NDB approaches. I can also remember how thight has been my conversion from classic jets to new generation ones; I remember my very young simulator mate going faster than me trough automation, when I always decided to disconnect the autopilot and hand fly the machine when everything seemed too much confused.
Aviation changed a lot. I don't want to raise the question about safety statistics, regulations, role of CAA's,etc... We are now much more controlled, we can no more fly low and slow. We share our environment with a lot of other traffics, we are "seen" and even limited by electronic devices that doesn't allow us to explore the limits of our handling capacities.
Of course the development of technology brought safety and improvement to our industry. But it has changed the role of our profession without changing the level of responsibility of each one of us. In these modern times we must carefully evaluate every single decision taking into account the tight regulations that weren't the rule in the 60's or even 70's.
Our profession has changed since the 80's. May be is technology, may be is economical globalization. May be is all. I remeber the old pay when I got enough to change my car and give my family a decent life. Those were the days, my friends, when we all enjoyed the layovers together. Now I see the very junior guys trying to bring home as much money they can to to feed their children, to pay their houses.
I lost my job. Altough very senior in my company I was sacked together with the board of my association because of an industrial action where we didn't discuss pay increase. We were trying to abort the transfer of pilots to low cost carriers inside of our economic group. Very close to retirement I am experiencing how much aviation has changed in these thirty years... I am now looking for a job for half pay, may be twice far from home.
I have no doubt that we pilots are very similar all over the world. Of course I can enjoy the "tales" of Prince of Dzun from the times when suitable and adequate were not so important as one's handling and self navigating abilities. I miss these old good times when VOR meant visual over the river and I always pursued to be as good as the old mates that grease landed on three points. But I keep in mind every word of all of you that resist daily to "prostitute" our work conditions.
I wish you all the best. And hope to be again in a cockpit to make sure that I will have a safe retirement.
Please allow me to get trough the opinions placed on this tread. I ask you also to be kind enough to forgive my bad "english accent" as I spent my thirty two year career flying in the opposite side of the world.
I enjoyed the tales of Prince of Dzun. I can remember the times when the real good mates could land a DC3 on the three points because the short strips on the Rain Forest were flooded. It was a time when Vref was only a reference and the pilots didn't be afraid looking the airspeed coming down close to the ground. In our jargon in this part of the world we say that this means to feel the aircraft in your a**
I feel that I am one of those transition types. I flew DC3's, Lookeed Electras, B727's and a lot of hours in EFIS operations. I can remember the good old mates that landed the B727 with flaps 40 on very short runways after NDB approaches. I can also remember how thight has been my conversion from classic jets to new generation ones; I remember my very young simulator mate going faster than me trough automation, when I always decided to disconnect the autopilot and hand fly the machine when everything seemed too much confused.
Aviation changed a lot. I don't want to raise the question about safety statistics, regulations, role of CAA's,etc... We are now much more controlled, we can no more fly low and slow. We share our environment with a lot of other traffics, we are "seen" and even limited by electronic devices that doesn't allow us to explore the limits of our handling capacities.
Of course the development of technology brought safety and improvement to our industry. But it has changed the role of our profession without changing the level of responsibility of each one of us. In these modern times we must carefully evaluate every single decision taking into account the tight regulations that weren't the rule in the 60's or even 70's.
Our profession has changed since the 80's. May be is technology, may be is economical globalization. May be is all. I remeber the old pay when I got enough to change my car and give my family a decent life. Those were the days, my friends, when we all enjoyed the layovers together. Now I see the very junior guys trying to bring home as much money they can to to feed their children, to pay their houses.
I lost my job. Altough very senior in my company I was sacked together with the board of my association because of an industrial action where we didn't discuss pay increase. We were trying to abort the transfer of pilots to low cost carriers inside of our economic group. Very close to retirement I am experiencing how much aviation has changed in these thirty years... I am now looking for a job for half pay, may be twice far from home.
I have no doubt that we pilots are very similar all over the world. Of course I can enjoy the "tales" of Prince of Dzun from the times when suitable and adequate were not so important as one's handling and self navigating abilities. I miss these old good times when VOR meant visual over the river and I always pursued to be as good as the old mates that grease landed on three points. But I keep in mind every word of all of you that resist daily to "prostitute" our work conditions.
I wish you all the best. And hope to be again in a cockpit to make sure that I will have a safe retirement.
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Kaptain M:
You certainly are a wet blanket and I'm beginning to find your critical know it all suspicious diatribe rather irksome. To get some sense into all this, please read what's written below and then if it pleases you answer the question at the end.
Penang: Return to departure point, short runway, hills surrounding airfield, nil glide slope guidance (no Varsi), Cbs in area. No pluses for a single engine night landing.
Kuala Lumpur: Simpang required close attention even during the day. There is high ground close in around the airfield all of it unlit and a high hill on the downwind leg for landing to the south. Landing to the north required crossing a railway line embankment right on the threshhold. No Varsi. Not good for circling at night on one engine.
Malacca: Available but tower had to be called out and goose neck flares laid and lit, time waster, better to keep going.
Singapore: Destination, home base with maintenance facilities. No obstructions, flat approaches to long runways with Varsi at both ends. Clear weather.
It all happend many years ago but I remember the details quite clearly. I also recall that pushing on was an easy decision to make. Ignoring the fact that you dived into some deep water without the full picture perhaps with all your wisdom and experience you will now tell me just how this particular situation shoud have been handled.
Winglet21:
I enjoyed reading your sentiments and I trust you will find a good highly paid flying job soon. Regards,
Prince of Dzun
You certainly are a wet blanket and I'm beginning to find your critical know it all suspicious diatribe rather irksome. To get some sense into all this, please read what's written below and then if it pleases you answer the question at the end.
Penang: Return to departure point, short runway, hills surrounding airfield, nil glide slope guidance (no Varsi), Cbs in area. No pluses for a single engine night landing.
Kuala Lumpur: Simpang required close attention even during the day. There is high ground close in around the airfield all of it unlit and a high hill on the downwind leg for landing to the south. Landing to the north required crossing a railway line embankment right on the threshhold. No Varsi. Not good for circling at night on one engine.
Malacca: Available but tower had to be called out and goose neck flares laid and lit, time waster, better to keep going.
Singapore: Destination, home base with maintenance facilities. No obstructions, flat approaches to long runways with Varsi at both ends. Clear weather.
It all happend many years ago but I remember the details quite clearly. I also recall that pushing on was an easy decision to make. Ignoring the fact that you dived into some deep water without the full picture perhaps with all your wisdom and experience you will now tell me just how this particular situation shoud have been handled.
Winglet21:
I enjoyed reading your sentiments and I trust you will find a good highly paid flying job soon. Regards,
Prince of Dzun