China Airlines/China Airlines F/O, (update)-Merged Twice!.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the cockpit
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China Airlines QOL
Yes, I have read the previous 12 pages, but I still have some questions for those in the know:
1) Are FOs PIC type rated on B747 or just SIC type rated?
2) What is the FO payscale? (I have seen the captain pay posted, but no mention of FO pay.)
3) Is there a line standards department (no flame)?
4) Is there any CRM training or is the airline still stuck in the 1960s?
5) How many hours are the B747 overnights?
6) How many days off per month for B747 lineholders? Reserves?
Thanks to all who reply.
1) Are FOs PIC type rated on B747 or just SIC type rated?
2) What is the FO payscale? (I have seen the captain pay posted, but no mention of FO pay.)
3) Is there a line standards department (no flame)?
4) Is there any CRM training or is the airline still stuck in the 1960s?
5) How many hours are the B747 overnights?
6) How many days off per month for B747 lineholders? Reserves?
Thanks to all who reply.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Madrid
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MACM.
"I'm an fo and 3 of my expat friends just got promoted to captain"?
How long had they been there and can you confirm with their initials here please as this is contrary to what I've heard? And what fleet?
I know of a guy who has been there 3 years with bags of time previous to going to CAL and he's just doing his RP course. Another who has just quit and been there for 5.5 years... with previous command time on 737's.
Curious if they have finally come to their senses? Doubt it though!
"I'm an fo and 3 of my expat friends just got promoted to captain"?
How long had they been there and can you confirm with their initials here please as this is contrary to what I've heard? And what fleet?
I know of a guy who has been there 3 years with bags of time previous to going to CAL and he's just doing his RP course. Another who has just quit and been there for 5.5 years... with previous command time on 737's.
Curious if they have finally come to their senses? Doubt it though!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
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Ok,to finish this lottery according to CAL upgrades,here is the copy of the latest B744 fleet notification:
CAPTAINS
Domestic Line Captains:147
Domestic Line pilot under training for CPT:11
Expat Line Captains:92
Expat Pilot under Training for CPT:2
FIRST OFFICERS,Route captains included
Domestic Pilot:202
Domestic pilot under training for FO:18
Expat pilots:61
Expat pilots under training for FO:33
ROUTE CAPTAINS,FO not included
Domestic Route Pilot:90
Domestic Pilot under training for RP:3
Expat Route Pilot:16
Expat pilot under training for RP:0
Have fun,do your math about the chances.Previous experience is NOT respected here,they consider you as a newcomer.
CAPTAINS
Domestic Line Captains:147
Domestic Line pilot under training for CPT:11
Expat Line Captains:92
Expat Pilot under Training for CPT:2
FIRST OFFICERS,Route captains included
Domestic Pilot:202
Domestic pilot under training for FO:18
Expat pilots:61
Expat pilots under training for FO:33
ROUTE CAPTAINS,FO not included
Domestic Route Pilot:90
Domestic Pilot under training for RP:3
Expat Route Pilot:16
Expat pilot under training for RP:0
Have fun,do your math about the chances.Previous experience is NOT respected here,they consider you as a newcomer.
BusTie
I did the phone interview and received the introductory brief 2 weeks later. In between I received 2 emails; one asking for a break down of my flight time and another asking for my referees email address, so that he could write down what he'd said about me.
Once I'd emailed Taipei back I received an email asking me which interview slot I'd like.
Right now I don't think I'll be taking them up on the offer. I do want to fly the 744 but I don't want to spend the next 5 years as an FO when I will probably upgrade at my present company within the next 12 months. Added to which, far too many people seem to leave within the first 2 years and that says a lot.
Hope that answers your question.
Kenny
I did the phone interview and received the introductory brief 2 weeks later. In between I received 2 emails; one asking for a break down of my flight time and another asking for my referees email address, so that he could write down what he'd said about me.
Once I'd emailed Taipei back I received an email asking me which interview slot I'd like.
Right now I don't think I'll be taking them up on the offer. I do want to fly the 744 but I don't want to spend the next 5 years as an FO when I will probably upgrade at my present company within the next 12 months. Added to which, far too many people seem to leave within the first 2 years and that says a lot.
Hope that answers your question.
Kenny
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 53
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Interview
Thanks Kenny,
Well, one thing is very clear that, they don't have a proper procedures for this. They checked with my last employer before the phone interview as yours was after.
And you are right, come to think of it, 5 years is a very long time.
Once again thank you for your reply.
ps: can you pm me the terms and condition letter that they sent you? i want to get a heads up on it.
Well, one thing is very clear that, they don't have a proper procedures for this. They checked with my last employer before the phone interview as yours was after.
And you are right, come to think of it, 5 years is a very long time.
Once again thank you for your reply.
ps: can you pm me the terms and condition letter that they sent you? i want to get a heads up on it.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Asia
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Travel benefit :
-Start of contract
economy ticket from home to nearest CAL station, Business confirmed from it to TPE.
Same for spouse and kids
Same end of contract
-After 12 months
one free round trip from Asia to America/Europe/Australia -- seat available -- F for captains, C for Cruise or F/O
- After 36 months
Two tickets same as above or one as above and two round trip Asia
- Unlimited ID90/ID75 on company route
- Interline as other company regulation (ZZ,..)
-Start of contract
economy ticket from home to nearest CAL station, Business confirmed from it to TPE.
Same for spouse and kids
Same end of contract
-After 12 months
one free round trip from Asia to America/Europe/Australia -- seat available -- F for captains, C for Cruise or F/O
- After 36 months
Two tickets same as above or one as above and two round trip Asia
- Unlimited ID90/ID75 on company route
- Interline as other company regulation (ZZ,..)
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Asia
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Hello Ranklein,
Don't forget a lot of airlines want you one year in the industry before allowing ZZ, and as this is a new contract, expect to wait one year before having access to it 
I was not bond, so no idea, but maybe someone else??
As a rule bond regulation is essentially 'variable' in CAL, read anything possible and because you are in the same situation doesn't mean they would propose the same bond or that plain logic will apply. Welcome to CAL contracts
so pretty much flying other airlines with their zz discount?
I was not bond, so no idea, but maybe someone else??
As a rule bond regulation is essentially 'variable' in CAL, read anything possible and because you are in the same situation doesn't mean they would propose the same bond or that plain logic will apply. Welcome to CAL contracts
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
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And dont take the USD 4600 as F/O.
Normally they offer 5100 base on the 747, even if you are not rated,but CAL tries the 4600 for a while.If they see,that you are familiar that the 5100 usd contract exits you will get it as they are really short of manpower these days,and dont forget that 4 more 747 freighter are on order for the next year.
Belive me,you will deserve the 5100 here.
Normally they offer 5100 base on the 747, even if you are not rated,but CAL tries the 4600 for a while.If they see,that you are familiar that the 5100 usd contract exits you will get it as they are really short of manpower these days,and dont forget that 4 more 747 freighter are on order for the next year.
Belive me,you will deserve the 5100 here.
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: usa
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Deske1,
I've heard the "6600$" figure for the 744.Does it include some per diem and other things for that total or the total is 5100$ with everything included?
Isn't the 4600$ for the 738?
thanks
I've heard the "6600$" figure for the 744.Does it include some per diem and other things for that total or the total is 5100$ with everything included?
Isn't the 4600$ for the 738?
thanks
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
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This is a copy of another guy's post:
Salary $4660 USD/month (for 70 hours overtime at regular hourly pay over that)
Income tax is 20% and will be deducted (if you work over 183 days you can get a partial rebate)
Housing $37,000NT or 1100USD / month (taxed) for TPE base only
Per Diem $2USD /hr
G/S and Sim pay is $2800USD/month
Line Indoc $4164 USD/month
hotel accomodations for up to 7 months during training
Training bond (non-typed) 3 years/$20000USD (pro rated at months left PLUS 2 months salary!)
I am talking about the BASE: mine and the others got 5100 not 4660,and I was not rated on the 744.
They try to offer the 4660 for first as there are a lot of South Americans who accept it as they are from poor countries.But believe me,5100 is the original package,but CAL tried this game with the South Americans and it worked for CAL.
On the other hand the germans refused it and finally they got the 5100.
6600 could be with per diem,housing and overtime included for a 95-100 blk hour month.
The flt. time as dead head counts only 50% for your overtime.
The avarage that you can expect with housing allowance is about 5800-6000 usd per month.
Salary $4660 USD/month (for 70 hours overtime at regular hourly pay over that)
Income tax is 20% and will be deducted (if you work over 183 days you can get a partial rebate)
Housing $37,000NT or 1100USD / month (taxed) for TPE base only
Per Diem $2USD /hr
G/S and Sim pay is $2800USD/month
Line Indoc $4164 USD/month
hotel accomodations for up to 7 months during training
Training bond (non-typed) 3 years/$20000USD (pro rated at months left PLUS 2 months salary!)
I am talking about the BASE: mine and the others got 5100 not 4660,and I was not rated on the 744.
They try to offer the 4660 for first as there are a lot of South Americans who accept it as they are from poor countries.But believe me,5100 is the original package,but CAL tried this game with the South Americans and it worked for CAL.
On the other hand the germans refused it and finally they got the 5100.
6600 could be with per diem,housing and overtime included for a 95-100 blk hour month.
The flt. time as dead head counts only 50% for your overtime.
The avarage that you can expect with housing allowance is about 5800-6000 usd per month.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Flight Levels
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When do I haggle for a better contract?
The current base values I have been sent are;
about 3300USD and 3600USD respectively for 738 and 744.
Bond is for 4 years, not sure about the amount?
As I have accepted this brief to get an interview, when will I get a chance to haggle for a better contract.
I understand they will give you the contract to look at before or after the interview. Is this when I am to tell them I don't like it or will this piss them off? Is it best to wait for an offer of employment and then tell them to stick it?
Anyone care to share their experiences with this issue?
Beyond.
The current base values I have been sent are;
about 3300USD and 3600USD respectively for 738 and 744.
Bond is for 4 years, not sure about the amount?
As I have accepted this brief to get an interview, when will I get a chance to haggle for a better contract.
I understand they will give you the contract to look at before or after the interview. Is this when I am to tell them I don't like it or will this piss them off? Is it best to wait for an offer of employment and then tell them to stick it?
Anyone care to share their experiences with this issue?
Beyond.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Asia
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Hehhhh????
If its true,than this airline is not for any westerner pilot.I can have the same money in Europe and at least I dont have to take those so many sh!t.
But it might be true as there are rumors for reducing our market allowance,if it happens I am out next day and I guess I wont be alone.
If its true,than this airline is not for any westerner pilot.I can have the same money in Europe and at least I dont have to take those so many sh!t.
But it might be true as there are rumors for reducing our market allowance,if it happens I am out next day and I guess I wont be alone.
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Yes, unfortunately this is what I was sent from them!
For those in the know, is there any additional allowances, meal etc when on layover / away from base, besides per diem?
Beyond.
For those in the know, is there any additional allowances, meal etc when on layover / away from base, besides per diem?
Beyond.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Hey Beyond,
Sounds like this contract is getting worse. Deske's post above lists all the details I was given about 5 month's ago. Now the base salary is $1000USD less per month?!? Crazy!
I had heard the bond was changing to a bank guarantee of $25,000 USD upfront too. Anybody else heard of this? If so they are gonna be really hard pressed to get expats to come over there...
It would be tough to negotiate anything with them while over there I would imagine. If you mentioned it in the interview you would probably be sent home. I would wait until you get a job offer (after the medical) first then try to negotiate with them...
good luck
tailets
Sounds like this contract is getting worse. Deske's post above lists all the details I was given about 5 month's ago. Now the base salary is $1000USD less per month?!? Crazy!
I had heard the bond was changing to a bank guarantee of $25,000 USD upfront too. Anybody else heard of this? If so they are gonna be really hard pressed to get expats to come over there...
It would be tough to negotiate anything with them while over there I would imagine. If you mentioned it in the interview you would probably be sent home. I would wait until you get a job offer (after the medical) first then try to negotiate with them...
good luck
tailets
Join Date: Aug 2005
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Yes!
Unfortunately this is what I have in writing.
Yes there is a bank guarantee for four years. I am not sure of the amount, they did not tell me this in my brief.
Tailets, how long after the medical will I get feedback of if they want me or not?
Beyond.
Unfortunately this is what I have in writing.
Yes there is a bank guarantee for four years. I am not sure of the amount, they did not tell me this in my brief.
Tailets, how long after the medical will I get feedback of if they want me or not?
Beyond.