@DanBuster

So you're saying your own salary (forget the housing allowance for once, please) has not changed since Day 1 when you arrived in CX? If it has (and I am assuming it has), that means you now earn more than you did when you started. By the same token, I think we can assume that by the time these new joiners get to Fo and then Captain, they will also earn a little more than they do as SOs. Therefore, a 700sqft flat will not be their lot for life. It certainly isn't mine or any other LEP's.

True, very few live in 3-bed houses with gardens in Hong Kong. But for many, living in a city makes up for the lack of space. I choose not to commute because I like being in a city. In not many cities in the world could you afford that same house+garden lifestyle.

MrFusion

Still no-one has attempted to answer my simple question - is there a better deal out there? I've been looking (albeit from the perspective of one with some seniority), but haven't found one yet.

Yes, we all agree (and blimey has it been rammed down everyone's throat on here) that the package is not what it once was (for those able to join on expat terms). It's still a lot better deal than many out there.

Some have said go the low-cost cadet route - the choice between a) paying for their own training and then doing 6 sectors a day on 319s or 737s flying to some scummy airport in Eastern Europe, and b) having your entire training paid for, then flying long-haul on shiny jets isn't really a choice at all for many is it? If you think about it, and are honest with yourselves, if you were offered the same choice at the same age as these guys, wouldn't you have at least considered it?

Short-term approach, maybe, but who can guarantee a long-term career any more?

Umm... No. Pretty sure it's anger. ;)

Yes I believe I established that when I said "... and was turned down." Thanks for clarifying that. :ok:

Suppose it's better than being a "failured" English speaker...? :p

You'll have to remind me where I said I would take the job if offered it. Oh yeah that's right... I didn't. :=

If the many thousands of usernames you've created on this website can muster it, I'll gladly take them. :p

Ahh, so that's why I've been locked up in this rubber room for the last month. Can I leave now...? :{

You know what? You've inspired me to call recruitment and ask if they'll take me for my current $35K/yr salary. Or better yet: Minimum wage. Hell maybe I'll pay them to work there. Why didn't I think of this before?!? :p

The ONLY thing I've told others to do is to THINK FOR THEMSELVES. While you, ChinaBeached and whatever other aliases you may have only offer criticism and misguided advice for people you've never met. :=

Yup. And I did. Your point? :confused:

Thanks Grandpa, I've learned a lot. Now let's get back to more pressing matters: Is it time for me to change you again? :p

Nice pat on the back, but I don't think you can give yourself points...

... and this isn't a real game...

... Sigh. :rolleyes:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that I'm SURE that's over with, :p , again if anyone would like the CPP Transition Final Interview gouge I wrote, feel free to PM me.
:)

For what I'm looking for... Nope. But what I'm looking for is different than most people.

Well you got me on a typo! Odd that you found that one but nothing in my post from 21st May. Genius.

And my thousands of usernames? Clutching at straws now! Nah, just the one but have fun going back through those posts. It may be the most study you've done in years! (You may even find a typo to hang an argument on....)

Nuclear engineer, guess not. iCadet, guess not. A lower paying job to handcuff yourself into even lower terms & conditions to arrogantly back slap yourself over & vainly screw over as many other pilots as possible? I'm sure with this demonstrated ignorant determination you persue failure with, you'll find one.

Can you please post your blog for all to see? Have watched "An Idiot Abroad", now some humour to pass the time: "An Idiot Who Soars"? How much wisdom can a failure offer the world? Consistency??

Lastly, yanky boy, say "buoy". Now say "buoyancy". Yeah..... Your grasp of English is an envy!!!!

Yeah, and if we all stop buying gold maybe the gold price will go down again. Or if the Americans all got together and refused to drop the selling prices of their houses the market would recover! Duh.

It's called supply and demand, it's an essential component of a free market.

DanBuster
 

Let's try and agree somewhere first:

Agreed! More money is always good. But this iCadet programme started being advertised way before last year, even though they only recently improved it. And we did have a recession recently - not a long one, admittedly, but we didn't know that at the time. P.S. We also got a long overdue pay-rise recently, but I know that shouldn't be mentioned...

As I've explained before, my contract has just been improved, not degraded. Future contracts can't be degraded, as they don't exist yet. They are matching mine, in face. However, I am with you 100% when it comes to not wanting to see my fellow pilots' contracts degraded, and will be standing by you if it comes to that. But it hasn't yet.

Again, they won't be doing the job for less than me. The exact same, in fact. As I say above, though, if they attempt to reduce your contract to match ours, I'd be with you 100% - that's not something you signed up for.

Sadly, this is where we disagree - this IS a long-term career for me, and for many others already here in the same boat. It does signal the death-knell for expatriate terms, no doubt, but as I've said repeatedly here, it's still a good package.

As I understand it, the company has to pay equal terms to everyone now that the possibility of race discrimination is out there. So, the company can do one of two things: 1) pay everyone expat terms, be they from HK or elsewhere, or 2) pay everyone into the future on local terms, whatever they are. I'd love 1), absolutely, but I've never imagined it was a realistic goal - the company was never going to pay me expat benefits when I'm not an expat. I'm also pretty sure that would mean the end of the cadet programme - why would they bother training people from scratch if they could hire who they wanted onto expat terms? Maybe no bad thing for someone like yourself, but someone like me wouldn't be here if that had happened. I preferred to have a job on local terms than no job at all. CX was the only realistic option into flying for me.

This whole argument, I think, boils down to your perspective: if you've joined on expat terms, you can't understand how anyone could want to join on less, and you fear for your own conditions. Totally understand - really I do. If, however, you've never had expat terms, you look and think: ok, it's not what it might have been had I been able to join a few years ago, but is it still a good package? To that, I, and many others, would say yes.

Fusion, you've been spanked, now take it like a man for once:rolleyes:

Woof, your just another one trying to justify the current T and Cs. Due to a lack of response, they HAD to increase them by adding the housing component. How long do you think they could wait if they had no one applying before they resorted to another increase? Supply is YOU, demand is from them...you take away your supply, they must increase the contract to attract you back. At the current rate, it would not be long at all, and I am talking weeks rather than months.

Has anyone here mentioned that any cadet with +1500 hours gets to keep the remainder of their training allowance which, by a rough calculation, equates to (at worst) around 50'000GBP by my reckoning.

That sure goes some way to making up for the lack of housing allowance.

VFE.

And you'll get taxed on that. Has anyone told you that the remainder of the training allowance is what current Expat pilots make in a year from the housing allowance year after year. Thats not by my reckoning but a fact. Enjoy your one yr lump sum and suffer for the rest of your career. There is no justification to accept lower T&C based on short term sweeteners.

Mr Fusion I'm not going to highlight and quote from your posts but plain and simple you are an idiot. You defend yourself with stupid comments but you just make yourself look like more of an idiot. Did it occur to you that by accepting a cheap contract flying a RJ in the US is the reason why you are a still cheap pilot flying an RJ and you want to do the same at CX.. :ugh:

Let's see the bigger picture. The International Cadet program combined with the Hong Kong Pilot Allowance (HKPA) is CX's long-term plan to slowly reduce bases. In 10-15 years more than 50% of all pilots will be on HKPA terms. A HKPA pilot doesn't cost the company more than a based guy, actually at the moment a HKPA pilot is cheaper considering whats going on with the bases at the moment.

I have no problem with CX paying less for less experienced applicants. However, let's face it being on different contracts and housing schemes divides the pilot group. While us on B-scale and expat benefits want to improve Pay, Rostering and working conditions the HKPA group will focus on improving housing as this would be the main financial gain for them.
As soon as HKPA pilots are representing the majority of the CX pilot group, they might see improvements to their HKPA while the now minority of pilots on expatriate terms will see no improvements on the items they see their priority, like pay for example. Similar what happened to the A-scalers.

That is probably the main reason why most CX pilots posting here opposing the ICadet program.

Most ICadet applicants probably haven't had much exposure to the airline industry and just see the positive like getting a sponsored pilots license, travel the world, flying a widebody jet etc.

I highly recommend for potential applicants to read the book "The 49ers - The True Story" from John Warham. Things haven't changed that much. At least you know then what to expect for the next 30 - 35 years at CX.

Thanks, I was quite proud of myself. :p

Just the one? Awww don't be modest, your other personalities just haven't told you about them yet. Take your meds like a good boy. ;)

Apparently more than someone with a serious case of multiple personality disorder. :rolleyes:

Your grasp on racism is envious as well. How big of you! :ok:

Again with the spanking... I know some guys down the street that can satisfy that fetish for you boys. We'll make the safety word "iCadet" just for you! ;)

My shoulder's always available for you to cry on buddy. :{

Hello, and pleasure to meet you too. Thanks for the "idiot" comment right off the bat, always good to start the conversation on a positive note. :ok:

Hmm, so I accepted a "cheap" RJ contract job. I wonder what I was thinking OH YES there are no "good paying" RJ jobs in the USA! Obviously I should blame myself because I took the job...

... Nah, instead I should blame the real culprit: Corporate greed that has crunched the numbers and realized that aircraft incidents, accidents or even loss of life is acceptable risk compared to the profit saved on labor costs.

AND WE'VE COME FULL CIRCLE... :)

This is exactly what Cathay is thinking with their Cadet Pilot Programme and their double SO long-haul crew concept. Why waste another dime on labor when you've already invested in the safest, most advanced aircraft available, flying under the protection of a safe and reliable air traffic control system? Mmmmm I smell larger bonuses for management, yay! ;)

And unfortunately, this is the new reality and it is here to stay. If most Cathay pilots were that disturbed by the CPP package, they would put their jobs on the line instead of their mouths. But like USA legacy carriers and the regional airline industry they initially endorsed, they know not what they do...

Like yourself and everyone else in this thread, I don't like it one bit. However the difference is I wouldn't EVER discourage anyone to reject an interview or hold back an application. I'd rather see someone make their own informed decision rather than be bullied by a group of cowardly anonymous internet egos who may/may not be pilots. As I've mentioned before, I have no stake in this: I am only here to offer information.

...And feed the trolls.

BECAUSE IT'S FUN!!! And I know you're enjoying this as much as I am... right? ;)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ALL, FEEL FREE TO PM ME FOR A CADET PILOT (TRANSITION) FINAL INTERVIEW GOUGE. TAKE CARE AND BEST OF LUCK TO YOU! :ok:

Well you've sunk to a new low. Accusations of racism are pathetic & cheap even for the likes of you. You attempted to ridicule my typo as poor English skills & I gave evidence as to yours.You bought mention & reference toward my nationality & I did yours to compare & contrast English styles YOU raised argument about. In turn you fly the flag of racism when you have no argument.

You failed at your iCadet interview & boast of it to the height of arrogance of being able help others with your blog. Those of us with experience of CX, the interview processes, the airline culture over more than your pitiful & failed grasp, who value our profession & self worth who know from experience and FACTS the bigger long term situation are trying protect our industry from the sell-outs like yourself.

You draw on an arguement of "racism"! You want to highlight facts as you see them. And based on what? The fart of experience you had of HK & CX, least of zero widebody jet industry knowledge or experience? And what's more you seek to continually boast about sharing such self proclaimed knowledge, facts & experience??!!

I'd be taking the advice of the zero hour 18 year old who SUCCEEDED where a 3000 HR TT, 2500 hr RJ FO FAILED.

You haven't the capacity to accept another's point of view, particularly those whom you asked & tried to be colleagues with. Despite so many others telling you to shut up, you're wrong & your entire attitude reeks of shear single minded conceipt & arrogance, you continue.

You've reached the MDA, you've been told to go-around by your vastly more experienced colleague sitting beside you yet you know better & continue to descend, eh??!! 'Cause that's exactly what you're doing here. You'll argue into a CFIT due your arrogant nature.

Lastly, Wow! From what self-appointed grandeur to you speak from? The ATC over Calicut, India, Indonesia, polar nav & comms, NAT crossings when HF is unreadable, Afghanistan terrain experience & procedures...... Not to mention differing aircraft makes, models & the Boeing vs Airbus vs... debates of software design????? Or by chance is it you have ZERO experience of any of this but argue from a position of dogged arrogance in the hope of satisfying a mis-placed self belief??

When the aircraft fails, when ATC is wrong & makes mistakes, when pilots make mistakes it is the not the likes of yourself any of us want to be near in the sky. Because after all, you'd be right & all the world wrong: even into the ground which is a higher level than the sewer you seek to stoop down to.

ChinaBeached

You go boy...:D:D:D:D

...?
 

Is this some kind of a debate competition? People applauding, taking sides and giving points? You should both accept the fact that you will never agree on ANY subject and move on, at least for the shake of this thread.

I think the moderators gave up on this one as a lost cause a looong time ago. :(

Does anyone know of a more mature forum (or thread) whereby potential candidates can actually discuss preparation for this scheme without the constant rhetoric from those against it?

Many thanks,

VFE.

VFE, there is enough decent information within this (admittedly) long thread for you to get to the final stage...I speak from personal experience.

FWIW, the Cadet scheme is FAR from perfect, and CX, like the UK major airline I work for can and have shown utter contempt for their employees (I have just read the 49ers book) - having said that, short of someone like BA starting their old cadet scheme and allowing you to actually fly the aircraft from day 1, rather than this P2X rating b*llocks, there's not a huge amount out there which is much better.

To be honest, the industry is heading for the gutter anyway... :}

agreed, its true that there may not be much better cadetships out there... i just ask wannabes though, whats wrong with getting a job and self funding these days? with proper research and the right attitude, wannabes will realise that they are better off in the long run if they do the hard yards for a few years. the package really is far from perfect.

i used to be excited about this cpp and wanted to know EVERYTHING about CX (even about their escape routes, like why would i need to know them) and interview preparations! i probably learnt too much (from an icadet wannabes point of view), but it helped in making the informed decision to wait for the day direct entry opens again (i know its a long shot), rather than the day to get invited for stage 1 interview.

i suggest to anyone (i'm looking at you VFE), before investing your time (and possible money) into preparation for the interviews and what not, really do look at the facts and figures, and at least make an informed decision about going for this icadet program.

yes there is a bit of garbage on this thread but honestly some of those who are "against it" have some good reasons to back it up. if it weren't for those against it to give us insight on the real $hit (rather than just the sugar coated cx bull$hit), this thread would still be filled with hundreds of naive wannabes asking to PM each other when they wana catch up at the headland and hold hands for stage 2. the point im trying to make is, constructive criticism should not be perceived just as bad words in these discussions. think hard and clear about everything before singing such a contract!

my 2cents

77W

FWIW, I think there is no point hoping and waiting for this to happen. As far as I understand, expat terms are dead. They may improve the current local deal if they don't get the applicants, but don't hope for something that isn't going to happen.

So, whilst I appreciate you feel the current deal isn't right for you and you turned it down, effectively waiting for a better one - I'm just not sure you'll find one unless you go looking in the sandpit.

Orwell:
Point taken & I agree. But regrettably you have to fight fire with fire. Allowing a self-appointed omniscient guy preaching rubbish that he obviously has zero experience, knowledge or comprehension about is wrong. It influences others whereby overwhelming evidence that they are easily fooled or led.

VFE:
You have a "dream" & seek "the fairy tale". Well that's not "life". In life you have to slay a few dragons to get to climb the tower to get to the princess. Too many wannabes are trying to take the "free" express elevator to the tarted up, mutton dressed as lamb princess. What you'll find is a warted toad that you can't wait to kiss, but it will turn into an ugly, mean & greedy step sister taking advantage of you for the rest of your career. It's not all easy street as too many seek. That comes with the good AND the bad.

Voice:
So unlike your previous posts, you concede there are / could be better options out there? But as you note it takes people to get off their pretty & sweet comfort zone for a better LONG TERM prospect. GA offers OPTIONS when youve earned & own your own dedtiny as a result of thise hard earned credentials & experience. I'm talking 20-30 years long term which is a higher value than the age of many or most applicants. Hence this long term approach is too alien to them, and it isn't part of the first 5 pages of the fairy tale.

@ChinaBeached

Nope - my post said "I'm just not sure you'll find one unless you go looking in the sandpit." I never said there weren't any better deals, just that I hadn't found them!

To my mind, the deals in the sandpit may compensate (give) well, but take away a hell of lot more in other areas.

The way I see it is if someone decided to go down the self sponsored route and fund their own training they would:

• be wasting more years of their life working in jobs they do not care about to earn money to fund enormously expensive training
• Have to fund their training which will cost thousands upon thousands
• Have NO gurantee of a job at the end of having invested their thousands unless they were lucky enough to land themself a spot on a mentored pilot program (although I guess this would only really be applicable to EU wanabees as right to work is required for the EU mentored programs)
• Have a huge amount of debt to pay back and be on a crap starting salary which would only compound the problem (versus the starting salary at CX which is good!)

If this was a few years back people would have been saying the same thing, ohhh just go for the self sponsored route the market will improve. Well here we are at the moment and there is no improvement. If people decide to self sponsor it is more than likely they'll end up on the other end with the same market conditions. We're not headed for a boom anytime soon.

i know this is veering off CX topic a little, but since you raised the point, i'm just curious as to what you mean by this, compared to CX. you can pm me if you prefer. cheers

Mousey:.... You mean even MORE vitamin D from the upper levels while on a polar route or that I just received arriving back from ICN only a few hours ago? I did receive my dosage from the RHS of a widebody that you will sell-out to observe from seat 3. But thanks to the likes of YOU I can be blasted with that same radiation for far less money. Pathetically you honestly believe you are contributing to aviation....

If you can't accept another's opinion least of all offer an educated (look it up) perspective then don't bother. I know, I know... removing the ear plugs & head from the sand isn't part of the CPP / iCadet checklist.

hey guys,

an attempt to bring the thread back to its topic:

I applied early April having previously failed 2nd stage last year. Am still waiting.

Does anyone have any advice on preparing for the Reasoning Test other than the following...

Non-Verbal Reasoning Test

Many thanks!

VFE.

PS: ChinaBeached, nice try at trolling but some of us have been around here a while longer than you! ;)

Around longer than me? Congratulations. In my "short time" I have accumulated more PIC hrs in aircraft >5700 kg than you have TT, & am doing the job that in a widebody that 400 hr TT guys were selected for over yourself, as per your post:

.

So like a the guy on the previous page of this thread, you're so desperate you're willing to sell-out.

Having more "posts" doesn't make you more qualified, although you seem to think so. "Trolling"? As an illustrious instructor you should be able to see both sides to an argument. You can't. Get out of the training area for a change.

i am working full time and paying as i go. no debts what so ever...
its a financial bonus that i don't have a girlfriend/wife or kids or a mortgage, but yes its doable. i agree for some people its harder to pay as you go, but if the determination is there, you will make it work. relying on CX isn't the best option anyways, how do you know you will get offered?

p.s i care about my job very much, in fact i enjoy it and its a bonus that it can fund for training :ok:

You guys are missing the point. It's all well and good to think you may end up better off, but I have two points to make. Agree or disagree.

1. It's not about working in ****ty jobs to pay for expensive training, it's about learning to fly an aeroplane, character building, and making the decisions that come with it, to give you confidence when it comes to the crunch.

2. You may be given a job, but you'll have to work a damn lot harder to keep it. Even DEFO's are getting fired as we speak. Nobody is safe and nothing is guaranteed unless you do the work.

Can anyone confirm whether CX use the PW4052 and/or 4065 as well as the RB211-524 on the 747-400?

And are those 74's with RB211's all now G/H-T ?

Thanks.

VFE.

couldn't agree anymore crwjerk, well said :D


VFE

(anyone feel free to correct if i'm wrong)

between all 22, some use PW4052 and some use RB211-524H/T

Thanks EM773ER. Are there now 22 instead of 21 (as quoted on their website)?

Are all the CX with RB211-524 G/H-T rated at 60'000lb? I've got figures from RR of 58000lb - 60600lb?

Do the interviewers really grill candidates on this type of stuff? It's more of a google memory test than anything more weighty IMHO. Planespotters must have a field day!

VFE.

VFE
 

this is what I found and used for the 747's

21 747-400: Either 4 PW 4052 rated at 50,000 or 4 RB211-524 H/T at 60,000
6 747-400F:RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine
6 747-400ERF: 4 PW 4062 rated at 62,000 pounds per engine
12 747-400BCF: RB211-524 H/T at 60,000 pounds per engine

cx_773er
 

Just to let you know, you are not guaranteed a job at CX when you get accepted to the course either.... i have heard of guys being failed on the final day in Adelaide! Ouch, a year in Adelaide with nothing to show for it.

RB211-524......

G - rated 58,000
H - rated 60,600
T - Trent turbine mod (reduced EGT & SFC improvement).

All engines currently G rated with the Trent modification.

The End of PPRUNE
 

This is such a nest for Communist bull****.

As this forum should be available to pilots who can share experiences as adults and mature humans.

I have applied for a position in CX because I want a career in this company. So of course I am willing to start at the bottom.

I will be leaving my previous company where I am employed as captain on a north european airline with +2000 hrs, because this seems attractive to ME. Who can say what I need in T/C, if it´s acceptable to ME then I will take it. But first after a successful interview. Since this bull****-website has lost it´s purpose, I will never try to get some information from here again.

Here´s a tip for all forum visitors: This is a great website where you can sit and debate and practice your political ambitions, but if you want to share or absorb professional pilot experiences, LEAVE IMMEDIATELY.

what position did you apply for? baggage handling?. hey congratulations on that, you can definitely work your way up to the flight deck :) if you applied for the cadetship, then you won't be sitting in that left seat again for a very long time.

Nobody asked you to ask for help buddy, but hey if you make an informed decision, no one is going to attack you. That said, with this kind of attitude, its likely you will be looked down upon by your potential future colleagues. No one asked you to stay on pprune.

Believe it or not but you just contributed your own political ambitions, I find this humorous as it is hypocritical of you. Here's a tip for all forum visitors: This is a great website where you can sit and laugh at the likes of Mrs Bernoulli making a fool of themself :ok:

Many thanks KPHL and SMOC! Useful and hard to locate info there!

Another question I have is:

Does anyone know much about the 12 week course (for those with +1500hrs). Ie; what aircraft, flight content and whether this is still part of the selection process?

Thanks again,

VFE.

PS: If anyone here has been through the 12 week course and can pass on any useful information regarding their interviews and experiences I would really appreciate it if they could PM me! :)

As I said, this community isn´t for the ones who actually have a job to talk about, I see that now. As grown-ups we should be able to have decent conversations regarding our work situations. The internet is and will always be infested by characters who can´t talk for themselves in the real world, so they spew it out over the world anonymously.

That said, good luck to all of you and don´t listen to this bull**** website.

Mrs Bernoulli :=

Yeh i'm a kid with not even a CPL, but what are you calling the professional pilots who are also adults, that are on this forum? are they immature and full of bull$hit like you imply?. I'm sorry mate but if you want to have a cry about how pprune has changed, go talk to the moderators or whoever you have to talk to. This forum is for people to discuss opinions and different issues. If you don't agree with the posts, or dislike the posts, fair enough, that is no reason to insult everyone one on this forum (or the entire pprune). Quite frankly I don't like your arrogant attitude, there are some higher ups (to the airline you hope to work for) in this thread that you could show some respect to... :ugh:

VFE

pm Mr Fusion and ask for his/her gouge on the transition course interviews, it could be helpful to your questions.

hi
 

hi guys i backread a lot in our very helpful forum and I have had a lot of useful info.. i got invited for an interview this june and I hope anyone who have been through the stage 1 interview to give me some more info to read and look upon. I don't want to be shabby and I really want to get into this program.

I only have 30 hrs of flight time in cessna 152.. and i really hope i can train at fta.. please pm me for useful guidance.

cheers!