Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Wannabes Forums > South Asia and Far East Wannabes
Reload this Page >

Need advice on TR decision !

South Asia and Far East Wannabes A forum for those applying to Cathay Pacific, Dragonair or any other Hong Kong-based airline or operator. Use this area for both Direct Entry Pilot and Cadet-scheme queries.

Need advice on TR decision !

Old 14th Mar 2015, 07:28
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: India
Posts: 2
Angel Need advice on TR decision !

I passed out from IGRUA in August, 2014. I am not Type Rated yet.

Unfortunately, I did not clear the written Indigo JFO exam of Feb, 2015.
Now, I have missed the Air India and GoAir vacancies for TR A320 pilots.

I feel like jobs are just slipping out of my hand! Vacancies are here but I am not getting the jobs.

Okay. So my question is- should I go ahead with self-sponsered A320 Type Rating? Because you see, I am afraid that another vacancy may come up for type rated pilots?
What will be the cost of renewal in case I do not get a job in one year?
If I go ahead with TR, I will opt for an Indian centre.

Please. I need opinions. I am not very aware right now! :/
prasannatash is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2015, 11:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: flying by night
Posts: 501
don't pay for a type rating unless a reputable airline promises to hire you when you get type rated (usually at a facility of their choice). A self-financed type rating on your own, which is not part of the hiring process of an airline, will rarely get you anywhere.
deptrai is offline  
Old 14th Mar 2015, 13:20
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Winterfell
Posts: 224
Need advice on TR decision !

DO NOT PAY FOR A TYPE RATING
TRY2FLY is offline  
Old 15th Mar 2015, 06:23
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: zoo
Posts: 79
Unfortunately, I did not clear the written Indigo JFO exam of Feb, 2015.
Vacancies are here but I am not getting the jobs.
BoooHu....

Spending daddy's money does not require much effort, does it?

Instead of spending daddy's money without a job guarantee why don't you study hard and try to clear the next airline exam for CPL holders? If you feel that you did study hard then either you are being dishonest with yourself or you are not cut out for an airline job. Sorry.
billboard is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 00:57
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Republika ng Pilipinas
Posts: 6
Well our current situation here in the philippines, a few years back then, cadet program on such airlines were removed. And now, most of pilot's here are taking themselves with there own TYPE RATING at CAAP, well the result is supposed to be employed by that airline, but there is no guarantee. and that's why there's a bunch of pilots, who currently graduated with a320 type rating and hoping to get a call. reason? other airlines, are so selfish of themselves that they are protesting to postpone the expansion of other foreign airlines here in the philippines, while even themselves cannot even expand there fleet. Actually, we are running out of pilots here in the asia. Its just very strange that due to some egoistic act of some company here, they are on verge of jeopardizing the whole future of other pilots.
kevin777x is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 06:52
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: the blue planet
Posts: 36
I know of a bunch of IGRUA graduates from 2012, 2013 who are still 'being patient'.
Quite possibly there are many from earlier batches in the same situation. Having said that, I suggest you go through the thread 'Indigo call letters for freshers'. There's another thread on Jet hiring on the same forum. You might get a clue which helps to reach a decision. It's a very tough decision and my suggestion would be to take the ATPL exams while you are waiting. That helps. Just keep studying. All the best.
grandfather is offline  
Old 16th Mar 2015, 12:58
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin VOCI , India
Age: 31
Posts: 1,610
I believe the following post is quite apt to the original poster

Reposted with permission courtesy of Mr. Sushil Bajpai


There was a time when the airlines around the world, paid for the type rating, in return for a bond to work for them for several years. That was the time before the airline industry got commoditized.

Now it was a race to the bottom, and continues that way today. Their margins have got eroded to less than 2%. Consequently, if the economy in one corner of the world, so much as sneezes, the airlines around the world, catch a life threatening flu.

The price volatility of fuel ensures a low immunity towards any shocks. High fuel prices send them in a crippling spiral. When the fuel prices go down, instead of recouping the losses or hedging against the future of high fuel prices, they wear out each other, selling tickets below par.

One of the direct implications of the cheap tickets is that the airlines stopped paying for the type rating. Initially the idea came in garb of loan, to be recovered from the salary. Then that pretence was gone as well. The prospective pilots needed to shell out the cost of their training upfront. While controversial, this is how the industry has organized itself. It is perhaps best to accept this, although in a country like India how fair is it for a large of people who can barely afford even basic flying is something that needs to debated.

But now the situation has taken an alarming turn. I read with growing concern, on this and other forums, that the desperate young pilots have taken this to another dimension. They are willing to commit to self-sponsored type ratings in a vain hope of landing a job in some unforeseen and unforeseeable future.

Type ratings on big jets are expensive affair. They need to be kept current. And keeping them current also costs money. Within the same type, there are several variants. Not only this makes the whole business very expensive, but sitting on ground, for anything more six months after getting a type rating also has safety implications.

This is a vicious cycle, which if left uncorrected, will lead to a situation where the young pilots will need to pay for type rating and also for flying till they get their ATPL and 500 hours on the type. The airlines would then become an extension of and behave like TRTOs.

While the low fare passengers add to the market share, the flying crew could contribute to the bottom line!

There is another aspect which we tend to ignore. A young pilot has just spend several Lakhs to acquire a CPL, ME, IR and is desperate for a job, for the independence that comes with it and to be able tell the parents that the money and effort is not wasted, to return the loans. It is potentially a very high stress situation.

I think we need to be honest with ourselves, and to seriously consider added expenses of type rating only when an airline at least offers an LOI. Otherwise the remedy may turn out to be worse than the disease itself.

What are therefore, the options. My suggestion is, accept that the big jobs will come when they come. In the meantime upgrade other qualifications, which come at much lower cost. They have added advantage of reducing the stakes and diversifying the knowledge and skill sets.

While one waits for the dream job, complete that graduation, which you left half way and go on to get post graduation. Seek other jobs related to flying training activities that keep you in touch with flying. Diversify your skill and knowledge set. Don't put all eggs in one basket.

There are any number of distance and online programs to enhance knowledge, skill and experience. Diversification is the key to successful adaptation. I see that many pilots quite wisely do just that.

Think through. Keep thirty Lakhs in bank. It's a lot of money and can help you make much more. Definitely don't take any loans to do that type rating for an elusive job, unless you have an LOI.

I write this as someone who has seen and lived aviation close up for well over thirty years. I love to fly. But I don't shy away from from other "mundane" jobs that help ensure that I fly.

I'm not saying anything new. Instinctively, we all know everything that I have said. Neither do I mean to discourage or to belittle passion for aviation. I just wish to caution against the actions (or lack thereof) that could lead to avoidable despair, hopelessness, and broken dreams.

I just want to be a voice of caution for the pilots thirty years younger to me, who will carry the burden of aviation upon their shoulders. I don't want those shoulders to sag under the insurmountable load that our dysfunctional system can create for the young and unwary.
cyrilroy21 is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 00:32
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 20
Typerating

So does the post by Mr Sushil Bajpai still apply to the current scenario of Indian Aviation Industry? In the past one year we have seen good number of A-320 Vacancies. In the year 2016 we already have had Air India and GO Air 320 ads. What's the take now? Still is it considered a wise decision not to do the self sponsored TR? I don't think this A-320 boom will be back soon again in the Indian aviation industry. People are getting rated and are getting recruited eventually. I'm sure this is the best time ever to get type rated in order to get eligible for the rated vacancies and getting employed eventually. What's your take friends?
gambol is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 10:32
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: On a wing and a prayer
Age: 34
Posts: 95
So you feel getting typed will get you a job ?
In the near future we may see more of A320 rated guys than plain Jane CPL holders vying for jobs.
Now since you asked....
1) Ask your parents first then consider random people like me on PPRuNe. I assume that money for the rating is coming from daddy's coffers. Aske em if they have the capacity to bear the loss should you not get employed soon
2)Study...Ensure you do not flunk an exam
3) Apply for ground jobs in airlines. It will help you
4) Clear your ATPL papers and orals.
5) Teach fellow pilots. It sharpens your skills.

My type rating was fully sponsored by an Indian airline. I got in by starting off with a ground job...No connections, No daddy's money......Shit loads of hard work and determination and a little luck
VT-ASM is offline  
Old 5th Mar 2016, 19:41
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 20
VT-ASM,
1)Getting a A-320 Typerating is not a sure shot way of getting a job. But, yes it will hand me more opportunities to sit for the airline exams and it will increase my chances to get into the airline provided I'm up to the airline standards. In the last one year we have had numerous A-320 vacancies as against CPL vacancies which are just one or two on an average in a year. Now if someone's advice is not to do the TR then who will fill those type rated vacancies which we are seeing every 3 months. It's someone amongst all of us only who are getting type rated and getting in eventually. Just because you landed a Job without a TR doesn't mean that's the only way to go. Please be flexible with your thinking. In the present scenario having a rating will definitely hand you more opportunities as against having just a CPL.
2) Do not assume beforehand. I'll be financing my Typerating all by myself. I run a successful business. Sitting idle for all these years and wasting time was just out of question. I have utilised my time wisely.
3) Well, I have already cleared all the 3 ATPL written exams and Orals. And I'm making sure by working hard that I've the required solid knowledge base before appearing for that TR exam.

Everyone has different way to make it successfully to the airline (Getting a type or without type). Common factors are hard work, determination, perseverance, self-belief etc. What has worked for a particular person doesn't mean that's the only way to go.
By the way, what's wrong in funding a type training by taking "daddy's money"? How on earth will a person in his/her young days will finance himself for his/her training? We live in a culture and society where a family support their sons and daughters emotionally, financially and socially. Just because you got your training funded by the airline doesn't mean one shouldn't take that route and turn towards his/ her father for financial help. Which airline nowadays sponsors the TR right after or before the selection? I had asked views on the current scenario of A-320 opportunities. I do not wish to entertain one's advice whether one should spend daddy's money on TR or not. That should be utterly my god damn business where I'm getting the money from. But,yes without having required knowledge,skills and the required aptitude and utterly out of desperation one shouldn't invest on the TR. that will lead one nowhere.

Last edited by gambol; 5th Mar 2016 at 22:55.
gambol is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 03:07
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: On a wing and a prayer
Age: 34
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,

Just because you landed a Job without a TR doesn't mean that's the only way to go. Please be flexible with your thinking.
I am not the one who needs to be flexible with my thinking. I am suggesting more avenues ! Self sponsoring is a way but not the only way and definitely not the smartest way

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
2) Do not assume beforehand. I'll be financing my Typerating all by myself. I run a successful business. Sitting idle for all these years and wasting time was just out of question. I have utilised my time wisely.
Do not assume beforehand this post is directed solely at you. If you are sponsoring it yourself.. Well good for you. A vast majority are selling houses or are getting further into the debt trap taking loans for TR

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
3) Well, I have already cleared all the 3 ATPL written exams and Orals. And I'm making sure by working hard that I've the required solid knowledge base before appearing for that TR exam.
Good for you man !

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
Everyone has different way to make it successfully to the airline (Getting a type or without type). Common factors are hard work, determination, perseverance, self-belief etc. What has worked for a particular person doesn't mean that's the only way to go.
Exactly. The way this post is set up entails that getting an A320 type is a golden ticket to a job. Just because the A320 rating has worked for some hundreds may not necessarily work for everyone else.


Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
By the way, what's wrong in funding a type training by taking "daddy's money"? How on earth will a person in his/her young days will finance himself for his/her training?

Like I said before, A vast majority are going further into the debt trap. Just because you are well off does not mean every one is. I again state that this post is not directed solely at you.

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
Which airline nowadays sponsors the TR right after or before the selection? I had asked views on the current scenario of A-320 opportunities.
You still need to do your homework . There are at least 4 airlines in India which sponsor your type rating fully and on the big jets. I got typed last week.

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
I do not wish to entertain one's advice whether one should spend daddy's money on TR or not. That should be utterly my god damn business where I'm getting the money from.
So nobody is giving you one. Go ahead be my God Damned guest !

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
How on earth will a person in his/her young days will finance himself for his/her training?
Are you telling me I am old ?

Originally Posted by gambol View Post
VT-ASM,
But,yes without having required knowledge,skills and the required aptitude and utterly out of desperation one shouldn't invest on the TR. that will lead one nowhere.
You summed it all by yourself in the end !

Last edited by VT-ASM; 6th Mar 2016 at 04:19.
VT-ASM is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 09:17
  #12 (permalink)  
A69
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mumbai
Age: 31
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by VT-ASM
There are at least 4 airlines in India which sponsor your type rating fully and on the big jets.
That's news. Which 4?

Air India, IndiGo, Jet Airways, SpiceJet, Air Costa - One has to pay for type rating before training.

Vistara, Air Asia - Haven't had CPL examinations as of yet. Rated only so far.

Go Air - Has always hired rated.

Air Pegasus - ?
A69 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 09:20
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: On a wing and a prayer
Age: 34
Posts: 95
I'll leave that to you to find out my friend..
VT-ASM is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 09:39
  #14 (permalink)  
A69
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Mumbai
Age: 31
Posts: 79
Originally Posted by VT-ASM View Post
I'll leave that to you to find out my friend..
Yeah Right
A69 is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 10:02
  #15 (permalink)  
ZFT
N4790P
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Asia
Age: 69
Posts: 2,027
Originally Posted by A69 View Post
Yeah Right
You pay of course!
ZFT is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 10:37
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: New Delhi
Posts: 20
VT-ASM

Self sponsoring is a way but not the only way and definitely not the smartest way
Yes,definitely not the only way to make it. I'm glad that you agreed that getting a TR is a way too. and regarding smartest way or not. It depends, it can prove to be a smartest way for many but definitely not for all. People who're are getting recruited under 320 vacancies are definitely making a smarter move by opting for the TR as against us who are hardly getting any opportunities at the CPL level and mind you not everyone are called to sit for the exam when CPL level vacancies comes up. Therefore my friend,You can not completely rule out the TR option and claim that appearing for the CPL level entrance exams is only the smartest way. I'll therefore say again please be flexible with your thinking.


Do not assume beforehand this post is directed solely at you.
Now you are changing your words. Go read your first post again. Read ?? Now tell me was that post really not directed at me? You had used "you" and "your" words throughout in that post and you say now that post wasn't directed solely at me. Before listing your advice in numerical order you had written "since you asked" and then you went on with your list of advice solely referring to me and then you say you directed it to others too. Really?? True, it's a public forum all can read the post and relate to it. But my friend one can clearly see that your first post was solely directed at me. If you had wished to direct your first post to others too you may well have mentioned that by referring to everyone. But you didn't. I can't see that anywhere in your post.


The way this post is set up entails that getting an A320 type is a golden ticket to a job. Just because the A320 rating has worked for some hundreds may not necessarily work for everyone else.
Not a golden ticket but definitely it can get proved to be one of the right tickets. True, 320 rating will not work for all. It will only work for a hard working, knowledgeable and determined soul.



You still need to do your homework . There are at least 4 airlines in India which sponsor your type rating fully and on the big jets.
Really ??? that's something new these days. I'm curious to know. Please list out the name of those airlines. I wish to update my knowledge and would like to be informed for that matter.



Go ahead be my God Damned guest !
definitely not my way and surely not interested. Keep your agitation to yourself. And I'm sure you can be a better god damned PPRuNer.



Are you telling me I am old ?
I never said and never meant that. Please comprehend well. Try reading again.

Adios and good luck ahead!
gambol is offline  
Old 6th Mar 2016, 15:00
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Cochin VOCI , India
Age: 31
Posts: 1,610
Here is my suggestion as I have been receiving many queries of late regarding the same.

A type rating is nothing but a pure gamble of your money. I have seen CPL holders recruited through CPL vacancies. I have seen CPL holders go all the way through final round , did not clear the final round and then do a type rating and get hired somewhere

While its true that there were more type rated vacancies than there are CPL vacancies , do not be under the impression that the recruitment process is going to be any easier.

You are expected to be good at both your CPL level stuff and the type rated stuff. This would require someone to sit and study both topics every single day till the day you get that job.

Also its going to cost couple of lakhs or more to keep renewing the IR and PPC checks every year ( the more you delay renewing the IR the more its going to cost you )

The recent GoAir ad requires pilots to be current on type. Their exam ad says the written test will be on A320 Technical and General CPL level stuff

A lot of people I have seen underestimate the amount of effort it actually takes to sit , study and prepare both CPL and type rated simultaneously
This is especially true for candidates that have family , jobs or businesses to look after.

Also all airlines these days conduct some form of psychometric test. Nobody knows what it takes to pass these psychometric tests unless you have studied psychology and have inside information on the character profile they wish to hire.
Please keep this in mind as well...

My suggestion is only go for a type if your CPL level basics are thorough and profound. Pass those ATPL's first.

Before going through a type rating get hold of some CBT or FCOM's and start going through them.

As long as the economy dosent tank or oil prices dont shoot through the roof or the Indian rupee does not devalue agains the dollar rapidly... there should be plenty of vacancies for both type rated and non type rated

Just make sure you understand the risks involved before going for one


P.S -

@ VT-ASM

Let me see if I can identify the 4 airlines that pay for a type rating

1. Air India - The last Air India vacancy for CPL holder the type rating cost is borne by AI. Although the cost of the type is deducted from your salary thats still better than having to pay upfront

2. AirAsia - AirAsia did hire some CPL holders who were working as employees in other departments. Their type rating and all expenses during type is completely paid for by AirAsia. From what I hear they intend to keep it that way.

3. Vistara - Vistara too has so far paid for type ratings and they intend to keep it that way as well considering the other TATA subsidiary is doing the same.

4. Blue Dart - Blue Dart has recruited mostly experienced pilots i.e flight instructors but has always paid for the type rating

Last edited by cyrilroy21; 7th Mar 2016 at 17:15.
cyrilroy21 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.