Why I knocked back Cathay
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Mouwaa,
Exactly!!!!! I have no idea what is going on in peoples heads that want to become a pilot (should say airline pilot) and wondering about taking a second job so they can survive. It made me think of a post that was on another section of pprune where a guy was justifying working as an FO for wizz air on the 737 by stating that actually it is inline with the average salary for hungry or wherever it is based. I got into to CX just in time but think I will have to leave well before 65 as it will go downhill and not be worth it anymore, the only reason I am going to stay is I will be able to get enough out of the housing allowance to start a business back home.
Exactly!!!!! I have no idea what is going on in peoples heads that want to become a pilot (should say airline pilot) and wondering about taking a second job so they can survive. It made me think of a post that was on another section of pprune where a guy was justifying working as an FO for wizz air on the 737 by stating that actually it is inline with the average salary for hungry or wherever it is based. I got into to CX just in time but think I will have to leave well before 65 as it will go downhill and not be worth it anymore, the only reason I am going to stay is I will be able to get enough out of the housing allowance to start a business back home.
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While I agree you don't go to CX for the passion of flying, my advise would be for inexperienced pilots to go to CX for the free training!
And as soon as you find something better, go for it!
That's what free market is, after all.
And after your free training, you're better off than many pilots who paid their training themself. (CPL + P2X type-rating - 80.000USD debt)
And as soon as you find something better, go for it!
That's what free market is, after all.
And after your free training, you're better off than many pilots who paid their training themself. (CPL + P2X type-rating - 80.000USD debt)
Everyone is suggesting that once your At CX your stuck there. Your not bound to work for the company as that's illeagle in HK (I did ask this at my interview and they said it's true), so if you hate it, save up, take your P2X rating and run...go back to your home country, finish off to get a full/ fATPL and work for someone else.
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Your P2X rating is USELESS! Go ahead and try to use it for some kind of license conversion, it will get you nothing. If you have zero time, and can hack it on the deplorable terms in HKG, then come on aboard, but don't start b!tching in 3-4 years because you are starving and living in a shoebox.
box
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Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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My point was that you could use the bags of spare time as an SO to work on other ways to boost your income just as the poster who wrote:
....is using their money (instead of time) to boost their (future) income. There is very little difference in that and someone working on a lower salary with more time on their hands working on a second income. Most pilots sooner or later branch out into other lines of work whilst holding down their flying day job.
Think some people here have got the wrong end of the stick with what I was getting at, but I am aware that there are some strong feelings about the CEP scheme from existing CX pilots however it is not my intention to become involved in that one as it seems to just go round and round in circles, making this a very boring forum to be reading just lately. Seems a shame.
VFE.
the only reason I am going to stay is I will be able to get enough out of the housing allowance to start a business back home.
Think some people here have got the wrong end of the stick with what I was getting at, but I am aware that there are some strong feelings about the CEP scheme from existing CX pilots however it is not my intention to become involved in that one as it seems to just go round and round in circles, making this a very boring forum to be reading just lately. Seems a shame.
VFE.
VFE
Did you read my post #63? You can’t work for anyone else in HK until you have HK permanent residency which takes a minimum of seven years. Self employment is a little different but it takes significant amounts of capital, something most international cadets will be greatly lacking due no housing assistance and the setup costs of establishing a home in HK, i.e. furniture, 2-4 months rental bond, utilities bonds etc.
If you do go into business for yourself while in the employ of CX and it doesn’t workout you do need to realise that bankruptcy will also cost you your job at CX. CX regards bankruptcy as an instantly dismissible offence.
Did you read my post #63? You can’t work for anyone else in HK until you have HK permanent residency which takes a minimum of seven years. Self employment is a little different but it takes significant amounts of capital, something most international cadets will be greatly lacking due no housing assistance and the setup costs of establishing a home in HK, i.e. furniture, 2-4 months rental bond, utilities bonds etc.
If you do go into business for yourself while in the employ of CX and it doesn’t workout you do need to realise that bankruptcy will also cost you your job at CX. CX regards bankruptcy as an instantly dismissible offence.
Dancing with the devil, going with the flow... it's all a game to me.
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Hi 404Titan,
Thanks for your reply. Yes I did see your post and understand your points. Without going into too much detail my ideas with regards making money (without the need for employment, self or otherwise) have their origins in financial trading which is becoming increasingly open to Joe Public via the huge communication improvements online. Don't really wanna give too much away here but there are ways and means for those cadets with a moderate amount of financial savvy. For those who don't I would strongly suggest they look into that sector as being based in the hub of an emerging market has to be an enourmous potential opportunity... just my two cents worth.
VFE.
Thanks for your reply. Yes I did see your post and understand your points. Without going into too much detail my ideas with regards making money (without the need for employment, self or otherwise) have their origins in financial trading which is becoming increasingly open to Joe Public via the huge communication improvements online. Don't really wanna give too much away here but there are ways and means for those cadets with a moderate amount of financial savvy. For those who don't I would strongly suggest they look into that sector as being based in the hub of an emerging market has to be an enourmous potential opportunity... just my two cents worth.
VFE.
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at the risk of stating the obvious here, why the hell should you after studying and working all your life to get an airline job in the first place, then have to do the same thing on your days off just to make ends meet...hello!
BTW show me one person you know who ever got rich, or even made a living from day trading, whether it's trading shares, currencies, CFDs or whatever. The reality is you need to watch the markets 24/7, and if you know how you can do that when you are at 40,000ft then you are too smart to be a pilot in the first place.
And I am sure the 300 passengers behind you would love the fact that you are thinking about your open position in pork belly futures rather than doing what you are being paid to do, ie fly the plane
BTW show me one person you know who ever got rich, or even made a living from day trading, whether it's trading shares, currencies, CFDs or whatever. The reality is you need to watch the markets 24/7, and if you know how you can do that when you are at 40,000ft then you are too smart to be a pilot in the first place.
And I am sure the 300 passengers behind you would love the fact that you are thinking about your open position in pork belly futures rather than doing what you are being paid to do, ie fly the plane
VFE, why on earth do you want to sit in a passenger transport as 'sexual advisor to the Captain' (if he wants your f*&king advice he'll ask for it), and suffer years of jet lag, stress, overnights to India, simulators, hoop-jumping, Hong Kong pollution and a very aggressive management culture, and then have to resort to financial wizardry to maintain an acceptable lifestyle? If you are such a financial whizz you could buy your own high-performance aircraft or warbird and be captain of that and not have to put up with the rest.
I've been in the company a long time, and both it and the job have gone to the dogs, especially for new joiners. And the jets ain't shiny any more. Think very long and hard about what you are letting yourself in for.
I've been in the company a long time, and both it and the job have gone to the dogs, especially for new joiners. And the jets ain't shiny any more. Think very long and hard about what you are letting yourself in for.
Last edited by Captain Dart; 1st Jan 2011 at 00:37.
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whilst not trying to be a cynic do you think he is a real cadet applicant seems extremely well informed and critical beyond his years!
The airlines would have to re-think their money saving strategies if there were more like him!
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congratulations..
Worst thread ever. Sure, the original poster has multi time to fall back on. Congratulations.
For some of us with limited opportunites to get some multi time, this programme is better than cleaning toilets, vacuuming the school, washing c152s for next to no pay. literally... only $20/ hour for a few 0.8 hour flights a week hardly pays for the fuel to the airport.
As much as most of you think that we all have "shiny jet syndrome", gawking at planes and being completely oblivious to the conditions. But in some cases, like myself, this is honestly the only other option for career progression. I have read all the cons that people have been posting, although some seem tough. It is better than what I am experiencing now. A couple of my mates even have been to Botswana and there is just a camp full of pilots waiting months for their chance waiting for the scraps after the companies hire the locals. There are just no jobs out there. So rather than sit around i'd rather go through the training that Cathay offer for FREE and gain some experience whilst the industry is recovering from the recession of '08.
Again, thank you for being so graceful and arrogant about knocking back an airline hoping for replies like "good stuff!", "well done!" to make yourself feel better...going through all that interview process just to slap them in the face...real classy. There is already information about the cons on this site, theres no need for you to list them out again. Have fun flying your multis whilst i study my butt off to try to pass the final stage in adelaide.
For those working in the airline now, can you please tell me of the pros of your job? Are there really no positives to the job?
For some of us with limited opportunites to get some multi time, this programme is better than cleaning toilets, vacuuming the school, washing c152s for next to no pay. literally... only $20/ hour for a few 0.8 hour flights a week hardly pays for the fuel to the airport.As much as most of you think that we all have "shiny jet syndrome", gawking at planes and being completely oblivious to the conditions. But in some cases, like myself, this is honestly the only other option for career progression. I have read all the cons that people have been posting, although some seem tough. It is better than what I am experiencing now. A couple of my mates even have been to Botswana and there is just a camp full of pilots waiting months for their chance waiting for the scraps after the companies hire the locals. There are just no jobs out there. So rather than sit around i'd rather go through the training that Cathay offer for FREE and gain some experience whilst the industry is recovering from the recession of '08.
Again, thank you for being so graceful and arrogant about knocking back an airline hoping for replies like "good stuff!", "well done!" to make yourself feel better...going through all that interview process just to slap them in the face...real classy. There is already information about the cons on this site, theres no need for you to list them out again. Have fun flying your multis whilst i study my butt off to try to pass the final stage in adelaide.
For those working in the airline now, can you please tell me of the pros of your job? Are there really no positives to the job?
Congratulations michael, you are on the second step of a path that has a few more steps, prior to joining cx as a direct entry so with full houseing. Leave the cadet thing to the locals who don't have the chance to do what you are doing.
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michael
michael,
...? I think perhaps that's because the truth doesn't suit you
And this gem
, just how do you think he/she got those hours? They didn't just fall into the logbook now did they?
Your from New Zealand and
? Surely you don't expect anyone to believe that for a moment? I'm from NZ, and I did the hard yards to get where I am, so there is no reason or excuse why you can't. I know for a fact Eagle and Air Nelson are hiring now. This creates movement in the GA airlines, why don't you contact them?
I think you owe the posters here an apology, the only reason we are taking the time to let you know what you are letting yourself in for financially is because we really don't want to see youngsters struggling here....when you should be enjoying the fruits of your career.
As for
shows you have no idea whats in store for you, if you think the study is all done and dusted.
You need to go and re-read the posts again, there are plenty of pros to this job, but you won't be able to afford any of them.
Nosey
"worst post ever"
And this gem
"the original poster has multi time to fall back on"
Your from New Zealand and
this is honestly the only other option for career progression
? Surely you don't expect anyone to believe that for a moment? I'm from NZ, and I did the hard yards to get where I am, so there is no reason or excuse why you can't. I know for a fact Eagle and Air Nelson are hiring now. This creates movement in the GA airlines, why don't you contact them?
Again, thank you for being so graceful and arrogant about knocking back an airline hoping for replies like "good stuff!", "well done!" to make yourself feel better...going through all that interview process just to slap them in the face...real classy.
As for
Have fun flying your multis whilst i study my butt off
You need to go and re-read the posts again, there are plenty of pros to this job, but you won't be able to afford any of them.
Nosey
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Whilst I do applaud anothernewbie for their valuable insight that I am sure many will find constructive and useful, it does paint a picture that is similar to many airlines all over the globe. Split duties, lack of handling and fatigue are part and parcel with the majority of airline flying today.
Joining as a cruise pilot with no previous commercial experience is potentially precarious. Regardless of what we fly and what stage we are at in our career, we undergo a significant period of learning and refining our flying skills when we first fly. That is why turboprop experience has traditionally been looked upon as being a solid base since lots of hand flying goes hand in hand with such an operation. Sitting in the cruise with no hand flying is leaving such a person trying to build a solid career on a extremely weak foundation. As a Line Training Captain myself (not with CX!) I would ask you to take a long hard look at the long term and ask if joining direct as a cruise pilot will turn out to be the positive step that so many may think it may be. Such a view is not looking at CX as a company since I would say the same regardless of the
airline!
On the topic of second businesses, I am keen to develop a second income stream, yet for many this will be more of a insurance policy than anything else. Having the financial freedom to perhaps work part time or indeed know that you have something to fall back on if you loose your medical, is priceless for some. It is rather foolish to chastise anyone for wanting to develop a business outside of flying since our motives for doing so could be very different!
PS... Thinking you need to watch the markets 24/7 in order to make money from them is a big myth!!!
Joining as a cruise pilot with no previous commercial experience is potentially precarious. Regardless of what we fly and what stage we are at in our career, we undergo a significant period of learning and refining our flying skills when we first fly. That is why turboprop experience has traditionally been looked upon as being a solid base since lots of hand flying goes hand in hand with such an operation. Sitting in the cruise with no hand flying is leaving such a person trying to build a solid career on a extremely weak foundation. As a Line Training Captain myself (not with CX!) I would ask you to take a long hard look at the long term and ask if joining direct as a cruise pilot will turn out to be the positive step that so many may think it may be. Such a view is not looking at CX as a company since I would say the same regardless of the
airline!
On the topic of second businesses, I am keen to develop a second income stream, yet for many this will be more of a insurance policy than anything else. Having the financial freedom to perhaps work part time or indeed know that you have something to fall back on if you loose your medical, is priceless for some. It is rather foolish to chastise anyone for wanting to develop a business outside of flying since our motives for doing so could be very different!
PS... Thinking you need to watch the markets 24/7 in order to make money from them is a big myth!!!
Avoid imitations
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A question:
A pilot who has struggled to get enough hours/ratings goes to work for an airline who will not give him handling time. His ratings expire. For whatever reason, he becomes despondent and decides to leave.
Is he now more, or less, employable than before he joined?
A pilot who has struggled to get enough hours/ratings goes to work for an airline who will not give him handling time. His ratings expire. For whatever reason, he becomes despondent and decides to leave.
Is he now more, or less, employable than before he joined?
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On paper they may seem more employable after looking at their CV. They may well pass the simulator phase of a new type rating course with ease but their potential downfall will be the line training since they will lack the recent handling experience which will sadly not be commensurate with their experience, despite being limited.
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Great post. Quite bitter to be honest as I've recently applied for the cadet programme but it's good to hear this coming from a different perspective. I'll be taking further thoughts into my decision. Much obliged.
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Hi All
I am based in the UK and was sent the stage 1 interview in London for the cadet program at Cathay this morning.
Originally applied sometime ago, as I finished commercial training at the start of the recession in the UK, although still looking to join a multi crew operator.
Already have JAA CPL / IR with MEP, SEP ratings and working for a small SEP AOC operator getting hours up around full time job.
Based on reading this thread I gather then following:
1) Have to go to Australia and do training again
2) House Allowance removed
3) Pay / package not great
4) Type Rating, what is the issue with the type rating? Read comments about it being non transferrable
In summary is that roughly correct?
I am seriously considering replying and not attended but want to get the facts right first.
I am based in the UK and was sent the stage 1 interview in London for the cadet program at Cathay this morning.
Originally applied sometime ago, as I finished commercial training at the start of the recession in the UK, although still looking to join a multi crew operator.
Already have JAA CPL / IR with MEP, SEP ratings and working for a small SEP AOC operator getting hours up around full time job.
Based on reading this thread I gather then following:
1) Have to go to Australia and do training again
2) House Allowance removed
3) Pay / package not great
4) Type Rating, what is the issue with the type rating? Read comments about it being non transferrable
In summary is that roughly correct?
I am seriously considering replying and not attended but want to get the facts right first.
Last edited by turbine100; 13th Jan 2011 at 15:57.
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turbine100
1. Yes, down to ADL for training. Dependant on experience, 12 week to 15 month course.
2. Correct. No housing allowance.
3. Correct again.
4. As an S/O, your get what is known as a "P2X" rating. Cruise pilot (>20,000') only. Conversion course, but no circuits and landings in the actual aircraft. Only a fraction of your hours (1/3) as "P2X" count towards a higher licence.
With the serious difficulty CX is having filling the slots for international cadets, there is a very strong likelihood that CX will, once the pay negotiations have been ratified, start DEFO recruitment once again.
Any newbie caught in the icadet gannet-fest will very likely spend 4 - 6 (possibly longer) years making bunks and slipping deeper and deeper into the financial abyss...
1. Yes, down to ADL for training. Dependant on experience, 12 week to 15 month course.
2. Correct. No housing allowance.
3. Correct again.
4. As an S/O, your get what is known as a "P2X" rating. Cruise pilot (>20,000') only. Conversion course, but no circuits and landings in the actual aircraft. Only a fraction of your hours (1/3) as "P2X" count towards a higher licence.
With the serious difficulty CX is having filling the slots for international cadets, there is a very strong likelihood that CX will, once the pay negotiations have been ratified, start DEFO recruitment once again.
Any newbie caught in the icadet gannet-fest will very likely spend 4 - 6 (possibly longer) years making bunks and slipping deeper and deeper into the financial abyss...