Cathay Pacific Cadet Pilot Programme

[Em773ER]

Hey does anyone know exactly how P2X hours are regarded in relation to proper flying hours?, e.g 3 P2X hours = 1 proper hour etc etc. Reason im asking is because apparently some S/Os leave CX to work in their home countries etc after they finish their time as S/Os? Im guessing they would have a full ATPL and the required experience for F/O positions wherever they choose to go?

Thanks in advance!!

[holdmetight]

Hey does anyone know exactly how P2X hours are regarded in relation to proper flying hours?, e.g 3 P2X hours = 1 proper hour etc etc.

I don't think there is any relationship between the two, just like multi-engine time and single-engine time are totally independent of each other, simply because you are doing entirely different things. It's when you become a JF/O and F/O that you start flying frequently enough, in the RHS with your P1 rating, to log those hours that would allow you to apply for a job back at home.

[nmcpilot]

Just another quick one to anyone who has done the initial interview and has an ATPL did they ask for your flying training report from your FTO on the day?
As they haven't asked for it in the email, but seems like it would be a good thing for them to know! They don't want that yet they want my exam result certificates from school!

[SW1]

nmcpilot,

I dont think having a decent reference from you flying school will do any harm. Regarding the school certificates. Did you not get sent a certificate of some sort when you got your results.? I remember being sent my GCSE results and physically going to pick up my A-Level results from college. You should have about 3 or 4 certificates from school from various exam boards saying Maths B? etc. They dont want to see what percentage you got in Mechanics 1 or AS history etc. Just the final certificate will suffice. ATPL exams are important as well!

[nmcpilot]

SW1,

I have managed to dig out most of them now, all my flying docs and ATPL exam results are easily to hand as that's what most airlines seem to want rather than the high school certificates but meh guess CX are different!

[Em773ER]

holdmetight I was dreading that response lol. This raises a few questions.

What are the minimum requirements for J/FO?
What are the duties of a J/FO compared to F/O and S/O?
Did DESO stay S/O's as long as cadets have to stay S/Os? (4-5 years?)
Do J/FOs log proper hours or do they still log P2X time?

Surely they must consider experience when going from S/O to J/FO?, so lets say nmcpilot who has an ATPL (correct me if im wrong), and myself with only an SPL get into the cadetship (fingers crossed mate lol). If we are both going to be S/Os for the mentioned period (4-5 years?), then nmcpilot is going to be wayyyy more experienced than me when we are promoted to J/FOs, which then raises my first question. Hopefully it all makes sense. Thanks!

[Si3nna]

@Em773ER

What are the minimum requirements for J/FO?

Direct Entry or through the cadet route?
I'm assuming you were asking about the JFO upgrade through the cadet pilot route. Upgrade to JFO is dependent on the SO's seniority, experience. Usually flying ULH flights for approx. four years. It's very hard to justify the requirements.

What are the duties of a J/FO compared to F/O and S/O?

Once the SOs upgrade to JFO, they start on the Sim & have their base training in Zhuhai (usually) on their assigned aircraft (could be a different type). If they are successful, they start their line training flying with training captains on short haul flights. Once they have gained enough experiences, they are line checked. Once checked, they are pretty much qualified as a FO. They start flying the left hand seat as a JFO until the next upgrade, could be a year or two.

Did DESO stay S/O's as long as cadets have to stay S/Os? (4-5 years?)
Do J/FOs log proper hours or do they still log P2X time?

May be the other members can answer them for you.

Surely they must consider experience when going from S/O to J/FO?, so lets say nmcpilot who has an ATPL (correct me if im wrong), and myself with only an SPL get into the cadetship (fingers crossed mate lol). If we are both going to be S/Os for the mentioned period (4-5 years?), then nmcpilot is going to be wayyyy more experienced than me when we are promoted to J/FOs, which then raises my first question. Hopefully it all makes sense. Thanks

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for those holding a pilot licence, whether its a PPL, CPL or ATPL. All the hours are scarped if you have decided to choose the cadet route (at least the long course I know). I believe that is done to avoid having the same issue you've just mentioned. However, there are short courses out there accepting cadets with frozen ATPLs. Experiences are certainly important, but learning rate is just as important if not more, isn't it? As we all know most cadets haven't had any jet hours before and learning it will take time and hard work.

[Mouwaa]

all upgrade courses are done on the seniority list (date of joining), previous experience is irrelevant, whether you are a cadet or DESO, it makes no difference. Whether you actually pass the upgrade and get checked to line is on individual performance. If you fail the JFO uprade you don't get to keep your job.

[crwjerk]

@Em773ER

I'll answer as best i can, what the previous hasn't.

Min req's for J/FO are
: HKATPL ( or subjects)
: Already be an S/O in CX, and a couple of others which are irrelevant to you now.

S/O , JFO , FO duties.

S/O- operate in left or right seat as relief for operating crew, on Long hauls, Medium hauls ( Australia, Middle East )

JFO is basically an FO, with training and checks throughout this rank. Operate take offs and landings from RIGHT hand seat, ( not LEFT as Si3nna says)
Once you've done about 6 months as JFO, you'll do a check called a "QL" after which you'll be FO. Same job, just more money, then you build your hours on type ( 200 ) to become RELIEF F/O ( Senior F/O).... Although this is not really "senior" anymore as the company have reduced the minimum requirements for this.

Upgrade times and Experience Levels

As there are no DESO's anymore, this may be irrelevant, but upon joining, DESO's were given Cat B status, and Cadets, cat C. You can be upgraded to JFO only if you've been given Cat A. This naturally occurs in time if you keep passing your checks! So, it would NORMALLY take a cadet a year longer or so to upgrade. I am not sure about now, as it was 10 years since i had to go through that system.
If you're a brand new pilot, or experienced, it doesn't really matter. I've seen experienced guys get fired at S/O stage believe me. If you pass everything, you will progress in seniority. You may take a little time to get a feel for the simulator ( that's all you'll fly), and the experienced guy may take less time. On JFO training, same thing. You'll get the right amount of experience for the position by absorbing as much as you can as S/O, doing your homework, and listening to those who are more senior to you. If you are having a problem, don't worry, you'll have a few chances a redeeming yourself, nobody is fired straight away. And it is VERY RARE.

cheers

[Em773ER]

Thanks Si3nna, mouwaa and crwjerk!

What's still bothering me though is P2X hours in regards to becoming J/FO.

Correct me if i'm wrong, at the end of the "long course" you finish with a fATPL MECIR, and about 250ish hours?. Then you do about 4-6 months sim training etc in HK before you start as S/O. These are the requirements for DEFOs, which does not concern us as such but crwjerk mentioned J/FOs are pretty much like F/Os.

All First Officer applicants must meet the following minimum requirements:

An ICAO Airline Transport Pilot's License (ATPL)
A minimum of 1000 hours in one of the following categories:
Airline Jet Transport
Command Turbo Prop (MAUW greater than 20,000 Kgs)
High Performance Military Jet
Corporate Jet Command

By the time someone finishes their time as S/O after doing the long course cadetship, will they have qualifications similar to those required for DEFOs? (in terms of hours). Which should mean that P2X hours must have a relationship to real hours? otherwise someone out there could probably be flying a B777 with only a few hundred real hours!!!

Sorry if i'm not making any sense, just need to get an idea of how this works. Cheers everyone!

[Em773ER]

Roxy_Chick_1989

I heard there are some interviews down at Parafield Airport in the next couple months I think, could be wrong... best of luck!

[DDobinpilot]

Does anyone know how much emphasis is put on what score you get in the reasoning test for the CX initial interview? Just wondering if anyone didn't think they did that well and still got through, who is also an ATPL (f). I hear the test starts off pretty easy but gets progressively harder as you go along... Going through some practice tests now and some of them are an absolute biatch!

[holdmetight]

Em773ER

otherwise someone out there could probably be flying a B777 with only a few hundred real hours!!!

That's correct, and exactly what the CX cadet programme has been doing for the past 22 years. This is not as rare as many think - almost all cadet pilot programmes allow their graduates to fly in the RHS from day 1.

As I mentioned earlier there is no relationship between P2X and P1 time. Cadets or DESO may not have the same experience in flying jets as their DEFO counterparts, but they are much more experienced in Cathay procedures and flight operations, which makes it possible for them to progress into the RHS despite the lack of manual handling experience.

On the other hand, DEFOs are means by which Cathay can quickly slot a relatively experienced pilot into the RHS, which is why the requirements for DEFOs is higher than for DESO and obviously cadet pilots. That is why you cannot really compare the entry requirements for cadets/DESO with old DEFO scheme. Hope this makes sense and is accurate!

[DDobinpilot]

Anyone know what engines CX's 747-400's use these days?

[herrtob]

if my notes are right, then

RB211-524GT/HT for B-HOx and B-HUx
PW4056-3 for B-HKx

(x : { a series of letters} )

please point us in the right direction if these are wrong, many thanks

[barney31]

herrtob

please point us in the right direction if these are wrong, many thanks

No need to point you in the right direction. You are spot on.
Just to complete the picture, the current ERFs(B-LIA to B-LIF) are mounted with PW-4062 and the delayed delivery of the 10 8Fs (B-LJA – BJJ)are going to be mounted with GEnx 2Bs.
And, the B-KAE to B-KAI are mounted with PW-4056.

[therealredbaron]

London 4th October Morning assessment

Hi,

If the two I met on 4th Oct in the morning are reading this please drop me a pm

Cheers

[crwjerk]

holdmetight is correct.

Your S/O hours are logged as P2X, only for the time you are in your seat.
These hours don't count for anything really, other than total time. But you don't need to worry about that anymore! All you need to be a JFO is to have been an S/O, as i mentioned before.
DEFO need 1000 hours turbine or whatever it is, not cadets. Some of them have had a very hard time believe me.
Once you start real flying, then you log P1 Under Supervision, and P2, depending on who flies the sector. That's when you start counting your hours for the ATPL and Relief Requirements. ( So i remember )

[NightFlightsAreMagic]

Hi Guys,

Yesterday I got a call. I'll have part II and III on the 10th and 11th of November. If somebody else will do his tests on these days, send me a pm.

@DDobinpilot: Don't worry too much about the reasoning test. I found - probably like everybody - the beginning of the test very simple, the middle OK, and the last questions were just horrible. I don't think you need to have the last ones right. I even didn't solve the last 2 or 3. I took the time needed for those last ones to make sure I got as many as possible other questions right.

A question about the math-test. Can you skip a question and then come back to it later on in the exercise?

Blue skies, tailwinds, happy landings,

NFAM

[CXGE90]

@NightFlightsAreMagic

Yes yo ucan skip questions on the numeracy test. They are not in order of difficulty so it is a good idea to skip ahead instead of wasting time on the more difficult ones.