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Old 16th Jan 2013, 09:02   #4901 (permalink)
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Actually CB I speak for the majority of people who read this forum (like I'd know), please don't stop posting, don't stop trying to open the eyes of those blinded by SJS.

Pilotchute, why that comment? It's a bit inflammatory


Last edited by j3pipercub; 16th Jan 2013 at 09:05.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 15:25   #4902 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Not for Sale
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Regarding "C-Scale", that is the PRECISE term used by the HKAOA to describe the latest severe cut in the CX pilot remuneration package. Argue against them. They defined it such. (Careful! They are also filled with “experienced” CX pilots, non pilots and independently hired directors and lawyers).

Seeing as the vast majority of head-in-the-sand critics wish to point fingers without ANY form of fact or basis, here's just a little bit of light relief regarding the "STANDARDS" that our illustrious S888 says have not dropped regarding the CX iCadet and C-Scale applicants. So, sit back, grab a beer and enjoy these "standards" that CX attract!

This is just from the first 25 pages of the thread. Consider the other 249 pages…. Here is the "credit to the industry and the airline" as you, S888, have declared them to all be:

(The “When will CX reply to me?” was asked only a few hundred times…..)

“And if selected are you allowed to bring your wife to AUST. and she can be in her own place.”

Rahul.majithia (great use of the English language):
“i have completed faa cpl n have 235 hrs of flyin with multi rating
cleared dgca papers n ready for my conversion
going to fly my recency in sept
m i eligible for cathay pacific cadet pilot programme??”

“Does CP send you an email to set up a phone interview?”

“Its been 10 weeks for me. Ive nearly lost all hope.”

Flying Hamster (what’s this “google” thing let alone phone book about then??)
“Does anybody have an email address on which to contact the HR/Recruitment team at Cathay?”

“I am currently a Canadian Citizen and only legally allowed to work in Canada. Am I eligible for the cadet program?”

Blue_side-up: (from Nov 2009… And no drop in recuirtment standards????)
“Flight experience is not required (see website!)”

rahulpereira: (yep – ask a “rumour” forum for facts….?)
“just want to make sure thru you guys if I am eligible for the program. thanks”

“I ve been going thro the thread, u guys r doin a gr8 job here! I m one amongst u guys who applied recently! My ques is whts wit the website??? Has thr been any movement out thr?”

Swine Facipic (this guy actually got an interview):
“IN MY CASE - "Initial Application done in April 2009" That is 9 Months , PHUKIN HELL, Still no answer ... I don't know what the hell is going on there at Cathay City (Flight Recruitment).”

“can you tell me which CX aircraft have Winglet?”

nick185 (the reply):
“I think so - have a look on airliners.net and see if you can find any 777 with winglets”

“I am wondering what this the different between Airbus and Boeing? Is there any website or post i can read [email protected]@?”

nick185 (reply, yep – that’s it!)
“Airbuss = European Boeing = US”

“I applied a few days ago after I finally realized that engineering job is so boring (something I didn't realize back in the uni) and I need to pursue my childhood dream. I hope my PPL isn't going to be a disadvantage in selection process.”

Happyguy99 (sharing some actual interview questions asked):
“1) if you are heading 135 degrees and wish to fly a reciprocal heading, what new heading do you need to fly?
2) if you're at 33,000 ft and intend to descend to sea level at a rate of 3,000 feet per minute, how long will the descent take?”

first_officer (Feb 2010):
“can any one please tell me when will cathy pacific start their cadetpilot programme.i am so much confused...”

nicky7789 (become a brain surgeon, but only if that is your true “passion”!?):
“wat is the most common jobs ppl will do when they didnt get accepted in the CX cadet pilot program interview?”

“How should I write for the oral presentation topic?”
“7R and 7L(do we read L or left?R or right?)”

“Wuts going on……I'm from Florida……. Applied back in August and sort of forgot about it.”

“i am from US and i got in trouble with law and have misdameanour on my record, will that affect me.”

Happyguy99 (sharing actual interview questions asked – post _#419 pg 21):
“What do my parents think of me being here at the interview?
What did my parents think when I decided to become a pilot?”

“if you have 0 flying hours do they normally ask you echnical questions as well doring the interviews?”

“Cool so they give you a type rating? because I'm not sure if I'm getting it right seems like SO's fly one type on day and then another the next?”

So, S888, my argument against C-Scale and the severe lowering of industry standards, terms, conditions and remuneration is "distorted, misinformed and downright incorrect"? You are welcome to your opinion (unlike you of mine). I back mine up with facts. You have sticks and stones.

These guys and their ilk "worked incredibly hard to get there"? How "incredibly hard" can it possibly be to have zero hours (as it was originally)? How "incredibly hard" is it to write basic English syntax? How "incredibly hard" was or is it to undercut the workforce so severely and accept what others refused? How "incredibly hard" was or is it to force pressure on the present CX pilots' terms, conditions and remuneration packages? You contribute willingly and proudly to the downward spiral of the industry. How many high fives a day do you throw at yourself??

Pilotchute - I placed you as a guy who could have a civil discussion and agree to disagree with reason and respect. Obviously the bandwagon was too "incredibly hard" to not jump on. Pity.

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 16th Jan 2013 at 15:27.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 17:16   #4903 (permalink)
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cliffs
Posts: 143
Is anyone in the process of applying at the moment?

Apparently there has been a system error for a week now that says:
"The online application system is currently unavailable, please update your application information later.
If you need further assistance, please contact our eService Centre at +852 2747 2200 or send an email to eservice@cathaypacific.com. (1099)"

How long is it usually down for?
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 17:54   #4904 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 119
The icadet is dead in the water, but there are starry eyed hopefuls still clinging to the forlorn hope they will be called up 'sometime soon'.

Notice the recent call-backs are most;y from HK.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 18:50   #4905 (permalink)
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I think the iCadets get paid too much. Comparing them to the DESO applicants from the past, AE and TT experience is significantly less and it shows in the cockpit with the occasional exception. They should get an apprentice pay until FO 2 when they actually become a useful crew member. Then they should get on the normal pay scale with full expatriate benefits.

Or scrap the whole International cadet program and bring DESO and DEFO back.

Last edited by GTC58; 16th Jan 2013 at 18:53.
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Old 16th Jan 2013, 22:05   #4906 (permalink)
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I very much doubt that DESO and DEFO will ever come back if the AE and TT guys don't have too much trouble upgrading to FO.

You can write what you like but last time I looked half the world's economies are in the toilet and thousands of people (not just with 250 hours but hundreds of people with significant jet time) are out of work. In most of western Europe this trend is set to continue for the next few years at least.

By taking the package people are pulling down pilot T & C's I hear you say. No because a lot of airlines are already doing that very effectively. The Cathay deal is nowhere near the worst deal out there. Ryanair who ask you to pay 30k Euro for a type rating then make you a contractor who may pay you as little as 1500 Euro a month comes to mind. American regional's where the starting pay for an FO can be as little as 16k USD a year also comes up.

B scale is never coming back neither is the large housing allowance. Just let it go.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 01:48   #4907 (permalink)
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Age: 45
Posts: 63
Like I said. If there is somewhere I don't see anyone pointing the way. The next thing to look to see is happens to the first guys who start hitting on 55 years old and how many will extend to 65 on the 'reduced' terms. Maybe then the argument will no longer be just on new joiners. It's actually across the board. No one is spared. When premium passengers flew on premium airlines paying premium salaries. Pilots got top dollar. Now 'everyone can fly' for a price of a bus ticket sometimes. No need to be an economics major. It's never gonna be like before.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 01:58   #4908 (permalink)
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So to summarise your point: The Pied Piper pipes & everyone races to blindly scurry along off a cliff.

CX is in HK. It is not in the same market as the insany volatile Nth American aviation sector or the Brits Abroad cheap holiday package LCC market in the UK, or Europe either.. Of course it is subject to exposure by definition of an international airline to these influences. Of the airlines & sectors you mention by & large salary positions are across the board (not counting the BA example). At CX the mastermind of C-Scale didn't take a pay cut to "keep the airline competitive" did he? He put it on to the next generation all at a time of record profits!! (And you've danced to his time, then said thank you). How's his salary gone then? It's screaming ahead due the bonuses!!!

The same year the iCadetship & C-Scale was introduced was AFTER CX made record profits. The airline industry in Asia & the M. East has seen the GFC through far better than the other sectors of the market you mention. In fact they've set the tone for growth & expansion despite what has gone on elsewhere!

Comparing CX in "HK" salaries to Nth America, Europe or the UK not up mention LCC's is like comparing unskilled labour salaries from Australia to Bangladesh. It ain't apples & apples.

B-Scale will not return because so many have welcomed it, endorsed it & said thanks for it against all experienced opinion & advice. In my group 59 out of 60 turned it down.

B-Scale would've returned within 3-6 months if pilots & wannabe pilots showed a minute bit of solidarity to defend their careers & profession. Not my words but from VERY reliable sources from with CX. Supply & demand. But instead it worked in the opposite of what it could've let alone should've.

There are far, FAR better jobs for pilots with as little as an endorsement, CPL & IR that will get a newbie into the RHS of a turboprop or even jet for far better money & loggable hours than what the CX chained situation creates. People have to simply look & make it happen. China, SE Asia, sections of the ME & Eastern Europe are are screaming for pilots with FAR better pay & FAR better long term career prospects.

Just let it go? And what? Not speak out against what CX has demonstrated they can do to pilot terms, conditions & remuneration so my job becomes in jeopardy from another guy happy & willing to undermine & undercut my salary, terms & conditions? No effing way.

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 17th Jan 2013 at 02:13.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 02:10   #4909 (permalink)
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Happy to see you keep on posting mate

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Old 17th Jan 2013, 02:31   #4910 (permalink)
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What about SQ? Similar playground? Apples for apples? I like to hear your opinion on them vs CX. Such as Unions, Bypass pay, Paying for Training, enforced no-pay leave, lower benfits etc. Cost of living comparison etc.

I would also like to hear your take on the ME airlines as I understood from some of the guys that they are still held up in holding pools which you highlighted before that that would be a far better option.

All that you said solidarity wise I agree, but where have there been any success PILOTS vs AIRLINES lately? Not in CX, Qantas and several other legacy airlines.

Pilots joining any airline or applicants for any industry need to feed themselves with more than just principles. It is fallacy to think that WE actually control profit and loss and there will always be another bean counter round the corner.

You are more than entitled to voice your opinion and views and have provided an excellent summary of negatives from 249 pages. But without an ERN, actually having lived in HK for extended periods and spent time with 2729 pilots to get the complete view (of which I can't say many have) it will always just be an opinion.

Noble to voice the frustrations and negatives that exists and gives all wannabes an idea that they will always have the chance of sharing a cockpit with similar guys who share your views and prepare them for it.
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Old 17th Jan 2013, 07:48   #4911 (permalink)
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SQ: pilots as a united group in negotiation & conjunction with management agreed to cuts & sacrifices, etc. Again, this is in conjunction with management. Not so at all at CX. The naive new generation joining CX are paying the cost for the arrogant top end. CX have not suffered the same economic hits as SIA has or did. As is known, CX introduced C-Scale and the iCadetship at a time of record profits, hence very different to the SIA issue. (Singapore Airlines' pilots agree to pay cuts, non-paid leave - Times Of India)

SQ also are far more exposed to the LCC plague, and even are part of it via Scoot. Same as QF. A minimal amount of reading on the QF vs JQ money swapping and paper trail: Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun

Believe or not there are more than just 3 x shiny jet operators in the Middle East. For all the kiddies out there, here's more research that took me 5 seconds to find on potential job vacancies in the ME: http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/oper...eg=Middle+East yet there's such a deep consensus amongst too many that "it's too hard". It may involve a turboprop but sadly too many also deem this as below them. (Refer previous posts).

Go get those hours, experience and ATP/ATPL and like magic the opportunities keep opening up that do not chain pilots to an airline for 6+ years and more when considering recognisable hours.

I don't see my or any of the other 58 pilots' stance at all as noble, even if your comment was tongue-in-cheek (??). I see it as a minimal and obvious decision that my or our career, all the effort, hard work, too many relocations to count, relentless dedicated hour building, sacrifice and support (I was) shown deserve. Again, if everyone turned down C-Scale then by pure supply and demand remuneration must improve or CX would implode. Some see C-Scale and iCadetship as an "opportunity" - but at what long term cost?

I welcome other opinions and appreciate your reply actually. I cannot ever know everyone's personal circumstance and yes, people need more than just principles to feed a family. My angst is against the die-hard defenders of C-Scale and the iCadetship as a good thing when in fact many if not most seek it as a easy option. They argue me and others with no facts but a "screw you and go away if you disagree with my GenY me-first attitude!"

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 17th Jan 2013 at 08:27.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 05:27   #4912 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Planet Earth, mostly
Posts: 417

I sent a e-mail to Cathey Pacific for a pilot job yesterday but still no reply! Can you tell me when I can get a reply???

Also, not sure what plane I want to fly, but its got to be a new one, so either B787 or A380 - what do you suggest?

One more fing, what is the phone number and address of Cathey??

Cheers mate, keep it real.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 08:20   #4913 (permalink)
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Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 322
''SQ: pilots as a united group in negotiation & conjunction with management agreed to cuts & sacrifices, etc.''

Ha,ha you know Singapore at all?
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 10:33   #4914 (permalink)
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Cody: best ask the writer of the article that question! The article mentions the pilots "union" so by pure definition of the term I wrote what I did. Personal opinion there not disclosed!! My opinion as to the moral spine of many "pilot unions" is another issue which I've commented on in the past, and even started a thread on a while ago. Lack of action more often speaks louder than any action. But that's not for this discussion (???). I believe you are far better qualified than myself regarding things Singaporean. Personally though, "I plead the 5th" when it comes to my dealings and certain nationalities (whereby my own nationality would be far from spared!)

Well Mr etrang (or may I call you Ace? Mav? Iceman? SuperCoolDude?), your enquiry is well placed here. After all, I see you've taken the initiative to ask a rumour network about "facts" that you are "passionate" about so as to determine the next decade at least of your life. But before we proceed, may I ask you some questions first:
  • Are you able to grip your hands around your ankles while standing, and knees straight?
  • I cannot believe CX did not reply to you with an offer of employment. Did you tell them you were passionate? Whatever you do - and this is important! - do not (repeat DO NOT!) call them to gain 100% verifiable facts about your application. If the web site is down and a phone number is provided in lieu of that, don't even use that. Best you post on here instead.
  • Now, about that CX phone number: please, do not use google, a phone book, the information on their web site or any such silly l'il ole bit of factual information to get hold of it least of all use it. Once again, you are right to not review any of the other 249 pages of this thread, least of all the past 2 or 3 to pages that the same question has been asked.
  • May I suggest the Airbus 7-4-9000? I'm sure if you can design and configure it on xBox then we at CX will have it ready for you. Your passion and forward thinking places you in ideal stead for a Command position. Does it have winglets?
  • We at CX like "outside the box" thinkers and hence management like to be shown that they are wrong or there's a better way of doing things, plus you're saving wear and tear on your keyboard by spelling "thing" as "fing" is also taken into account. It's all about cost saving. Spelling standards, or standards anywhere that prevent profit are not what we're about. After reading your post we've employed several IT experts to re-write the iJourney system and several accountants at $250,000 HKD per month, plus $90,000 HKD housing and benefits to evaluate the $50 HKD saving over a keyboard's lifetime we might gain by saving use certain letters on our keyboards. (While a bit premature I've a sneaky suspicion we could be in for an award for this soon enough...! And with that budget let alone planning I can also see more bonuses! PS: What do you know of fuel hedging? Price fixing? Either way, no matter. Performance there doesn't affect forthcoming bonuses anyway!)
  • I'm sure you'll appreciate that these are hard times indeed for CX. As such we're reducing the remuneration package again. While B-Scale worked we didn't risk it to then severely lower minimum recruitment standards of experience or credentials. Having seen what we can do with C-Scale it's now open season for the rest of your career as once again I'm sure you can appreciate that, so thanks. To further cut costs, improve efficiency and remove the middle men I'll be sending you the bank accounts of recruitment standard decision makers for you to deposit a percentage of the money we're saving on your remuneration as our bonus. Once more, these are tough times and we know you appreciate that this burden is not for "us" to endure, so well done you on being part of the new generation at CX! They thank you. And I mean that very sincerely from the deep, deep depths of my wine cellar at my 7000 sq ft apartment at the Peak to my 2 holiday villas in Majorca and Tahiti.
(etrang: Glad to see some can have a sense of humour! )

Last edited by ChinaBeached; 18th Jan 2013 at 11:08.
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 17:01   #4915 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: World citizen
Age: 29
Posts: 5
pilot 852

Pilot 852
Can you please tell me when did u apply online
And where is ur interview going to be held ?
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Old 18th Jan 2013, 18:19   #4916 (permalink)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: World citizen
Age: 29
Posts: 5
Hi People !

I have applied in March 2012 but didn't hear anything from Cathay.
I have chosen India as my location for interview, is there anyone facing same situation as mine?
People who've applied after me already been called for an interview so totally confused.

Cheers !
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Old 19th Jan 2013, 05:17   #4917 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: No Fixed Address
Posts: 36

Just a suggestion, but perhaps you may want to try calling them and not rely on a 'rumour' forum. Rumour = Speculation


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Old 24th Jan 2013, 04:19   #4918 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: hk
Posts: 1
Thank you CB for the summary of the first 25 pages! It's very informative for new joiners like me.

Although i find some of your postings are a bit cynical, or may be that's the reality u see it, i doubt that it will deter anyone who's serious in their passion for aviation and making their dreams come true.

However I do appreciate that you share your view of reality here, I think everyone has their own personal reasons for staying/leaving and for some, they really need to take the hardway to find their own truth, to walk that path to know if it's really fit for them, so just let them be.

Anyway, thanks again and please continue to post more and share your insights as they are very valuable which also serves the purpose of this forum
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Old 25th Jan 2013, 19:57   #4919 (permalink)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Italy
Posts: 4
Looking for vol''8

Hi everyone, I am new to this forum, I have the first interview with Cathay next month, does anyone have the vol's8 to share?
Please I am in trouble with it!!
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Old 26th Jan 2013, 13:21   #4920 (permalink)
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 119
I'd rather have CB's interpretation of reality .Afterall we are adult to filter off the fluff.
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