Polish Presidential Flight Crash Thread
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BOAC, about "a metre" no one mentioned never in 1,300 pages in wild dreams
Now, never mind 2014 - can you translate the CVR in 2010?
Alice,
thank you.
Regarding the time shift, as I wrote before, for 4-3-2 km redouts by ATC, they are around 5 seconds too early.
Regarding the accuracy of the equipment. Well, this is why you have minimas to be respected.
Arrakis
thank you.
Regarding the time shift, as I wrote before, for 4-3-2 km redouts by ATC, they are around 5 seconds too early.
Regarding the accuracy of the equipment. Well, this is why you have minimas to be respected.
Arrakis
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Kulver - that requires a log-in!
Never mind - with many thanks to another PPruner I now have an English translation from way back in the flight, and there is NO ATC control for the approach at all. Merely information on range and what appears to be a PAR report only of 'on glide/on centreline', so NO ATC controlled PAR approach, confirmed. It appears to be a self-computed approach and it might just be that the Captain set 3 degrees FPA at top of glide (he says "-3") if that is an option on the 154. Apart from range and confimation of correct path, ATC ONLY say turn your lights on/clear to land and give a wind readout.
Surprisingly there is hardly any dialogue between the PF and the PM or Eng on what PF is doing during the last 200m or so of the glide - unless it has been removed, so why they dived at the ground is unknown.
Never mind - with many thanks to another PPruner I now have an English translation from way back in the flight, and there is NO ATC control for the approach at all. Merely information on range and what appears to be a PAR report only of 'on glide/on centreline', so NO ATC controlled PAR approach, confirmed. It appears to be a self-computed approach and it might just be that the Captain set 3 degrees FPA at top of glide (he says "-3") if that is an option on the 154. Apart from range and confimation of correct path, ATC ONLY say turn your lights on/clear to land and give a wind readout.
Surprisingly there is hardly any dialogue between the PF and the PM or Eng on what PF is doing during the last 200m or so of the glide - unless it has been removed, so why they dived at the ground is unknown.
Last edited by BOAC; 6th Jun 2010 at 16:36.
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It looks like there were no real coordination between and ATC and Pilots.They didn't know what expected of each other.
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BOAC, no login, just CAPTCHA
Probi, Criss, Cpt speaks perfect russian, including any digital readout he needed. Also russian and polish numerals are EXACTLY the same, exluding only "second": Language Course, Liczby - Цифры
Probi, Criss, Cpt speaks perfect russian, including any digital readout he needed. Also russian and polish numerals are EXACTLY the same, exluding only "second": Language Course, Liczby - Цифры
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Kulverstukas - I know that.
Probie - this came from a very emotional, distorted interview, and also it's unclear whether it's genuine. Anyway, he couldn't clarify anything in English - they would have spoken English in the first place (like they did with Minsk and Moscow) if ATC knew it.
Probie - this came from a very emotional, distorted interview, and also it's unclear whether it's genuine. Anyway, he couldn't clarify anything in English - they would have spoken English in the first place (like they did with Minsk and Moscow) if ATC knew it.
Last edited by criss; 6th Jun 2010 at 18:09.
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OK, probably you're right, and it wouldn't change anything anyway. I was just wondering. (and by 'clarifying' I meant a question in Russian about the numbers - vy ponjali nomera, something like that.)
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probie, mjr Protasiuk speaks fluent russian and english and nowhere in CVR transcription I can find any sign that he has any trouble in switching between native polish, which speaks crew, english and russian.
But this part of conversation, may be, can explain why ATC was so irritated about conversation:
But this part of conversation, may be, can explain why ATC was so irritated about conversation:
10:24:22,3 10:24:30,1 KRL / Д PLF 1-2-0-1, на Корсаже туман, видимость 400 метров. PLF 1-2-0-1, at Korsaż fog, visibility 400 meters
10:24:33,1 10:24:36,4 KBC Я понял, дайте, пожалуйста, метеоусловия. Understood, please give me meteo.
10:24:40,0 10:24:47,0 KRL / Д На Корсаже туман, видимость 400 метров, 4-0-0 meters. At Korsaż fog, visibility 400 meters, 4-0-0 meters.
10:24:49,2 10:24:50,8 KBC Температура и давление, пожалуйста. Temperature and pressure, please.
10:24:51,2 10:24:58,9 KRL / Д Температура плюс 2, давление 7-45, 7-4-5, условий для приема нет. Temperature plus 2, pressure 7-45, 7-4-5, there are no conditions for landing.
10:25:01,1 10:25:10,0 KBC Спасибо, ну если возможно, попробуем подход, но если не будет погоды, тогда отойдем на второй круг. Thank you, but if we can, we would like to try approach, but if not , there will be no weather, we will leave for a go around.
10:25:12,3 10:25:17,5 KRL / Д 1-01, после контрольного захода у вас топлива хватит на запасной? After the trial approach will you have enough fuel to fly to backup?
10:25:18,3 10:25:19,1 KBC Хватит. Enough
10:25:19,6 10:25:20,8 KRL / Д Я вас понял. Understood
10:25:22,9 10:25:24,5 KBC Разрешите дальше снижение, пожалуйста. Give the permission for further descend, please.
10:25:25,3 10:25:31,0 KRL / Д 1-0-1, с курсом 40 градусов, снижение 1500. 1-0-1, on course 40 degrees, descend 1500
10:25:32,0 10:25:34,2 KBC 1500 с курсом 40 градусов. 1500 on course 40 degrees.
10:24:33,1 10:24:36,4 KBC Я понял, дайте, пожалуйста, метеоусловия. Understood, please give me meteo.
10:24:40,0 10:24:47,0 KRL / Д На Корсаже туман, видимость 400 метров, 4-0-0 meters. At Korsaż fog, visibility 400 meters, 4-0-0 meters.
10:24:49,2 10:24:50,8 KBC Температура и давление, пожалуйста. Temperature and pressure, please.
10:24:51,2 10:24:58,9 KRL / Д Температура плюс 2, давление 7-45, 7-4-5, условий для приема нет. Temperature plus 2, pressure 7-45, 7-4-5, there are no conditions for landing.
10:25:01,1 10:25:10,0 KBC Спасибо, ну если возможно, попробуем подход, но если не будет погоды, тогда отойдем на второй круг. Thank you, but if we can, we would like to try approach, but if not , there will be no weather, we will leave for a go around.
10:25:12,3 10:25:17,5 KRL / Д 1-01, после контрольного захода у вас топлива хватит на запасной? After the trial approach will you have enough fuel to fly to backup?
10:25:18,3 10:25:19,1 KBC Хватит. Enough
10:25:19,6 10:25:20,8 KRL / Д Я вас понял. Understood
10:25:22,9 10:25:24,5 KBC Разрешите дальше снижение, пожалуйста. Give the permission for further descend, please.
10:25:25,3 10:25:31,0 KRL / Д 1-0-1, с курсом 40 градусов, снижение 1500. 1-0-1, on course 40 degrees, descend 1500
10:25:32,0 10:25:34,2 KBC 1500 с курсом 40 градусов. 1500 on course 40 degrees.
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Anyway, why mention the numbers, then? Triggering second thoughts about why not make sure if they did or did not. Have trouble with numerals.
But it must really have been a shock, so maybe it's too much to try to find any rationality there.
But it must really have been a shock, so maybe it's too much to try to find any rationality there.