Wirelock

Airbus AMM's certainly have inspections for suspected contamination by volcanic ash.

Try Chap 05-51.

Dave

German scientists plan to conduct a test flight on Monday to gain the first reliable data for the flight ban imposed on German airspace in the wake of fierce criticism of the ban by major European airlines.

The German Aerospace Center (DLR) said an atmospheric research plane will fly to a height of 10,000 meters (32,800 feet) to measure the concentration of volcanic ash particles in the air.

The Dassault Falcon 20 jet, staffed with experienced test pilots capable of handling extreme flying conditions, will take off as soon as it gets clearance, and the data it gains will be examined as quickly as possible to help the Germany's air traffic control and the meteorological service to assess the need for continuing the flight ban, a DLR spokesman said.

Eyjafjallajökull Chaos Blog: German Scientists to Measure Concentration of Volcanic Ash in Air - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Some better news on the latest VAAC charts:

http://metoffice.com/aviation/vaac/d...1271676889.png

Issued 1234.

'Eruption has virtually ceased with only small amounts of ash up to FL060'

UKMO surface charts out to T+120, looks like a northerly airstream should pull down some clean polar air for a few days at least:

Metbrief - Met Office Analysis and Synoptic Weather Forecast Charts via Wetterzentrale

Breaking news reports of NATO (Belgium?) F16 (s) suffering fusing of ash inside turbines while overflying Europe

Ferry anyone

Hi Whipper. Yeah fair comment, the RAF is under funded and stretched. But where does their funding come from. How many billions will be lost in tax collections over this period. I am sure they can risk a couple of Tornado engines. And its only that, a risk, its not certain that they would go up and wreck some engines. I have not caught up with other posts, but before someone has a go for risking a RAF pilots life......they are big boys and gals, when they signed on the knew they would be doing dangerous things. Trust me the nations finest take much bigger risks in Afganistan on a daily basis than what they would face on a jolly over Scotland.

Hi

I am a layman, simply interested in this news. I get my kicks on Flight Simulator!

Obviously my heart goes out to all air personnel affected by this indefinite problem.

Anyway, all I wanted to say is that, even if the ash dispersed NOW, no-one seems to have thought about the dust accumulation on runways/aprons etc, which will surely get hoovered into the engines?

Also the dust resting on parked-up aircraft?

No Special VFR Traffic allowed in Class A?!
 

On what grounds is all traffic excluded from Class A. No Special VFR to cross Class A around Heathrow. Not safety as they allow GA over Gatwick, Luton and Stansted. (I Know it's Class D)

Controllers must be very bored!!

Is this a bureaucratic anomaly? I understand Class A is IFR rule - but - No Special VFR or Helicopter Flights?!

:ugh:

And you have to admit that the record of this government is not good when it comes to BIG decisions.

Mad Cow, CJD - five deaths, we're all going to die, run for the hills.

Bird flu - one death in Hong Kong, we're all going to die, run for the hills.

Foot and Mouth - three people have mouth ulcers - burn them, burn them all, burn every cow in the land (and preferably the farmers too, 'cos they vote Tory anyway).

Swine flu - someone has a snivel, we're all going to die, run for the hills. Order 300 million Tamiflus and 500 million vaccines (from my mate's pharmaceutical company, of course).

Economy overheating - what's the problem? This is normal growth.

Global Warming - arrgghh, let's close down all UK industry, just in case. Yeah, yeah, so this is the coldest winter in 30 years, Arctic ice is recovering and Antarctic ice is at is highest ever extent - but we have to be cautious.

Economy crashing - it was the American's fault, selling houses to poor people.


Gordon make a rational decision? Not likely.

Wirelock,

Not sure who you work for and on what types but our AMM's have ash encounter inspection procedures listed clearly in Chapter 05??

over reaction
 

When Mnt St Helens erupted, the ash went around the globe and affected the weather for 2 years but there were not similar restrictions. I understand the BA 747 Flight 9 flew into a thick cloud of ash – rather than the diluted CAVOK conditions we have today.

If 1ppm (or whatever) is enough to shut down all airspace, then the situation will continue for months or a year – because that ash will remain in the northern hemisphere.

Volcanos have erupted before and this action has not been taken before. I am unaware of any incidents except of those flying directly into dense cloud.

It is getting ridiculous. Airfreight is not moving. Airlines will go bust. People will lose their jobs. People will go bankrupt as their bank balances & credit card credit disappears and up to 1 million people will not be able to vote in the election.

Seems to me that commonsense is finally making ground.

In order to save loss of face, a compromise might come with a change of wind direction on Thursday.

Amm Ch 5
 

Well done Dave bang on, any news on SIL's from the OEM's regarding inspections pre and post flight?

That latest vaac chart is looking very good. Flying to resume by midday tomorrow hopefully:ok:

The Simple Solution
 

Listen folks, I have the solution.........

All the private pilots are still flying in PISTON engined aeroplanes, so come on Air Atlantique, get them out, let's get back to nostalgia and start operating all the old piston engined airliners :ok::ok::E

Mate, I've never seen my airline's private forum so active!

@ ifly:

There are considerations beyond the freedom of GA to take advantage of the quiet skies.

These may well include public order issues, such as the risk of frustrated travellers rioting if they see someone else flying. No, they don't know the difference between GA and commercial aviation and acromyms such as "VFR" mean nothing to them. Think of it as like wartime rationing: the decision has to be seen to be fair, even to those with warped perception.

posting times????
 

Why is the timestamp on one post - 1540 - 13:04
and the next one, on 1541 05:04?

Show me the dust. There is no dust. Only pollen. And that's bad enough for some.:ok:

edit: someone corrected me saying that there was some dust recorded somewhere in the UK. Oh well. I guess the crops will fail now, which is much worse than engines sucking up what's left.

Jim French of FLYBE on BBC breakfast tv/radio and DC8 ash damage pics
 

Jim French head of Flybe was interviewed this morning on BBC breakfast
tv and radio 5...

he said that pilots can see ash on their weather radar...really?
since when>?

mods can put this thread in jet blast if they see fit...

i think he is wrong about saying aircraft radar can see the ash clouds...the radar usually cannot.
normal clouds are made up of moisture which can be seen on weather radar.
that's the reason why NATS have stopped all flights.

the ash cannot be seen by a/c radar. and this ash is so difficult to see and is at different flight levels.
for he and other airlines, whilst i can sympathize with the financial losses incurred to all by the 'no-fly' i am amazed that he made these
comments to the general public. it's rather misleading and i think dubious and maybe careless.

BA009 20 years ago with their weather radar were unable to see any ash clouds over Java and lost all 4 engines.
Capt. Eric Moody said this only the other day and stated how dangerous the unseen threat can be,
Jim French maybe panicking about his cash flow but he is rather silly to tell the public this ban should
be relooked at too hastily and decisions to lift the travel ban made by bodies who bow to commercial pressure.

see here for some damage to a DC8 flying into ash 900 miles away from ash clouds
http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/vol...8AshDamage.pdf
VOlcanic Ash Gives Jet Engine a Turbocharge : Discovery News

Listening to Adonis on Radion 4 - seems to be some back-tracking and damage limitation (of the completely over the top knee jerk reaction) going on.

My opinion - unscientific as it is - (but it would appear no more unscientific than the 'authorities' one), is that the bird that flew over my house this morning constitutes a far greater hazard to aviation than the tiny concentration of ash particulates in the same sky. Don't know why MODs deleted my post putting that point across?

Feel free to prove that I'm wrong

If the RAF do the test in what ever fast jet and it all goes pear shaped, at least they have the option to eject

Oh - no, no, no, Sunny Jim. Cannot have that. I see some ash build-up on your spark plugs. :(

You're grounded, mate. :ok:

Has anyone seen a definitive report on the BA747 engines and airframe? Assuming that they really did fly into dust-contaminated air (the reports of a climb to 40k leave me unimpressed with the stuff all below 20k!!) and also assuming that the jet went in for heavy maintenance, there should be some engine inspection results available.

what we need is a fleet of GA a/c flying out of Lydd and/or Manston ferrying pax back over the channel. Might take a while, carrying only two or three per flight but.....................we'd log a lot of hours

:ok::):D

According to Willie Walsh, everything is 100% rosy, and presumably all flights should immediately be reinstated.

Let's just hope a flame out happens outside of London.

Out of interest - since we've done the effect or no effect on the engines / airframe bit to death, what will the effects be on the SLF of flying for a few hours through the ash? Surely it'll make its way into the cabin via the CAU's & bleed air etc, not only being breathed in but also ingested in food & drinks.
R2

We're off
 

Manx2.com have two aircraft in the air flying from the Isle of Man to Belfast and Blackpool.

There's a risk of cabin contamination for sure. However, as I'm now up to smoking 30 a day through stress that will be the least of my worries. ;)

Open For Business
 

Just heard LHR likely to open at 1900 local on the 20th April with limited slots available and full resumption from 0530 on the 21st April.

That's a very valid question, I would suspect that once we start flying, the air quality will be monitored on a selection of aircraft. In the end a calculated risck will be taken, just as with the radiation you suffer once you reach cruising levels.

Unofficial but

FYI The Met Office has advised DfT that the eruption stopped last night.

UK airspace will be progressively reopened tomorrow.

Scottish airspace will open at 0600

Midlands at 1200

Southern UK at 1800

Northern France and German airspace are likely to remain closed tomorrow.

NATS and CAA are preparing initial operating principles for the start up period.

I was briefly in the RAF, and that was not what I signed on to do. I signed on to fight for the nation's defence, but not to risk my life for the economic convenience of the airlines. Your "disposable" attitude to the armed forces is rather insulting, but sadly also common. However, if you had the slightest clue of the resources issues in the services, you would soon understand that the RAF cannot afford to risk the loss of a Tornado, or other aircraft, that would not be replaced because of budget cuts which are set to increase dramatically, and the crew should not be risked either. You may think that the aircraft may just suffer engine damage, but what if things go wrong on landing the crippled aircraft? The crew might be able to eject, but that's hardly low-risk.

More significantly, what do you propose they do with the Tornado? Just fly around aimlessly until things go wrong? There are no sensor pods or sample collectors that could be fitted, so nothing scientific would be gained from your disposal of critical military assets.

Beausoleil
 

What I should have said was "ash" of course. Silly me. I was going to mention, but didn't, soot from the Kuwait oilfields that were ignited during the gulf war, which along with blowing sand, caused huge amounts of "clag" in the area, but did not stop operations.
However, if you think we are not dealing with "grit" and "silicon" what do you suggest it is that has been deposited on my car this morning?

It's not so much that he's desperate to resume flying. He knows that to do so could bring down a 'cloud' of additional maintenance costs. What he is doing, assisted in part by his chums at IATA, is building the case for government overreaction.

When he's finished he'll be back looking for government handout.

It's really that simple.

I don't understand the confusion over this and desert flying. Sand in the desert is made of large grains of silica. They are rounded from years of abrasion and they won't have the same melt characteristics of the finer, sharper mica in the ash cloud, which being fine will melt more readily, will be deflected less by airflow direction changes (coating more of the engine interior) and being more abrasive.

These comparisons with sand storms are pointless. The differences in effects between mica and silica have been posted previously, which is where I learnt about them yesterday. I think many would benefit from reading the thread properly and learning form the scientists and engineers who have contributed.

As the situation is reviewed every six hours ( next at 1500), I dont see how they can give a prediction of 1900 tomorrow.
I'm not sure the SLF are in a hurry to travel unless they are stranded.

German carriers are starting operation again using Y and Z flightplanes, effectively flying VFR in german airspace and then switching to IFR once they are clear of the affected area.

1900
 

Pretty confident my info of good quality let's wait and see, different people running the show now hence the different approach.

BA has now cancelled all flights for Tues 20th.

Jetex Jim - Good call! FYI WW has already played the handout card (according to this morning's BBC teletext), claiming the post 9/11 payouts as a legitimate precedent.