Question about the personnel chosen to do the evacuation testing for certification.

Is it usually just the one nationality chosen to do the testing, or is it a mixture of nationalities that partake in testing? Of these people would these be first time evacuees or would each manufacturer call on people that have previously tested?

Furthermore, is there any information available on successful evacuations that suggest that one nationality (dare I say from the more developed world) would be more likely to successfully evacuate rather than another?

I remember reading about the Ethiopian crash in the Comoros Islands that attributed a lot of deaths by drowning as people inflated lifejackets prior to exiting the aircraft and could have survived.

It looks like an evac slide.

I hope nobody was next to or on that forward RH slide when it let go in the video. I've never heard of one tumbling like that

Usually conducted by the manufacturer at their facility with their volunteer employees. So, whoever is available on staff. Probably a good mix of H-1B staff these days.

When I worked for Boeing and they sought volunteers, they preferred ones who had not been through a previous test.

Anecdote: They came around and asked me once. But I made a comment about their procedure for handling the overwing (plug type) exit doors. They requested that the person sitting at the door carefully open it and carefully place it on the adjacent seat (because this was a plane that they were going to sell). I remarked that people tripping over the door as they exited would distort the actual evacuation time. And if I were sitting there in real life, I'd just take the door, turn it sideways and frisbee-toss it out the opening.

They excused me from the test.

Deceptively simple.

For one, you have to sort out liability for checked valuables between check-in and return-to-pax - because currently neither airline nor handling agents nor pax's insurers will accept it. Or you ask pax to accept liability for your own systems being so prone to loss/theft that the risk is uninsurable...

For two, you need to work out what to do about pax with life-essential medication and/or medical equipment. Currently such pax are advised (by various official sources) that this stuff _must_ be in cabin baggage (with backups in checked baggage). I know this because, as of 18months ago, I am such a pax, and if/when I do fly again I will have to consider how to handle this.

There's a bunch of other issues that I can think of without even trying, but the big one from an economics point of view is that you have to remove all non-food/drink air-side shops (which is actually fine by me, but you'll need to work out which airports/airlines will still be economic).

I have on several occasions, never heard a word about it. We are told repeatedly to make the tough call and the CP's office will back you up. That has always held true at my airline.

I hate getting involved in such discussions, however, the sort of people LIKELY to be in tourist on a flight like this are probably very poor and going to the Middle East to work at rates that will seem low to us and very good to them. They will be going with items that to them have great money or sentimental value - these are things that "should" be considered.

They probably don't have the attitude that what is in their bags is disposable.

Look above at the pilot (???) who had a list of 4 or so things he would want to take with him. He has the luxury of thinking deeply about these things and the fact that he has employers, banks and friends who have the resources to easily help him out.

Sure you could demand a landing against the flow. but my guess is you'd be in the Hold For quite some time before they found an openin for you. These conditions are standard for DXB with it being a coastal airport in extreme temps. There's often a different wind at the touchdown point to the midpoint; so what do you do? There was nothing here today that was even mildly abnormal for Dubai. I suspect there will be something else that comes out of it eventually. The 10kt tail at touchdown will be negligible for EMirates pilots.

Scroll through the evac footage frame by frame, it has a wealth of informative still frames

Light Mist or smoke in central section of cabin?

A flood of light forward indicates perhaps doors already open before video starts..

Passengers queuing in isle with bags before video starts.

O2 panels hanging down, perhaps one or two passengers wondering if they are supposed to put mask on?

PA announcement "cabin crew, captain has ordered (inaudible) evacuation)"

Left side door behind wing is open and slide fully Inflated but comprehensively snagged and unusable.

Passengers blocking isles as they retrieve luggage, while children behind them struggle to get by!

Possible a contributing factor to speed of egress was shallower angle of slide due to lower height from ground, so there is congestion on the slide, passengers stationary, takes 20-30 seconds having cleared door to clear the slide. 15 or so people on the slide at one time, some climbing over bags.

Fire Command and control vehicle (or ambulance?) at left rear of plane.

No fire trucks visible to left side of fuselage.

Cabin attendant runs down asle from Center of cabin.

Cabin attendant at door screaming leave bags behind.

No PA announcement to leave bags behind was recorded.


In my view
evacuation of passenger (to door) with camera from impact was longer than 90 seconds.
Evacuation from the time passengers started to stand up also probably longer than 90 seconds.
Evacuation from impact to bottom of slide was over 2 minutes.

Bit late at the door to tell passengers to leave bags, better at that point they should hang onto them or they could drop them near door and cause a blockage?

Many Airlines make it expensive for a family to sit together by charging for the privelage of allocated seats. I've always felt this is unconscionable policy, I'll now add that kids seperated from parents in an evac is as potent a threat to speedy egress as passengers seperated from hand luggage.

It should be a policy that parents not be penalised for wishing to look after their children.
To the fit looking business guys blocking the isle, forget your bloody laptop, help the nearest parent!

Julio747 - "Are you suggesting he got a GA command half way through a bounce???? Nonsense...."

It's not nonsense. Our manuals talk about the options after a bounced landing. One is a G/A.

I muss say that I am a surprised by what seems a relatively minor fire at evac time escalate into a complete hull burnout, including apparently one fire firefighter being killed.

No idea what happened here (was that the slide exploding ? Cargo ?) but clearly they simply did not manage to put the fire out, despite (most likely) having ample equipment. Not criticizing in any shape of form, but there will be most likely interesting conclusions from the fire fighting aspects of this accident.

Really?
 

It could be what happened. But I doubt it.....

For all you advocating sitting tight in the case of an uncontained fire with SQ, looking at the burnt out fuselage, any change of mind?

Well done to the EK crew and RFF.

Clearly the CC did a fantastic job evacuating everyone unscathed.

What is fascinating to see though is the video from inside the plane during the EVAC and just seeing the sheer state of confusion and panic within the plane as some are trying to get out, others are putting on masks, and finally people are blocking the aisles trying to get their precious luggage out of the racks.

Maybe instead of showing 4 different videos before T/O with info everyone already knows, the airlines should drill into people not to take their luggage with them during an EVAC.

I can hardly wait until the "im so tired and overworked" brigade chime in to somehow attribute this to crew fatigue.

Lots of anger it seems for the people that were reaching for their personal possessions.

A planeload of mainly non-English speaking people, many of whom might be economic migrants with little to their name, may not see things in quite the logical way that some others might.

It's already been done, and quite frankly I don't see how it is not a valid contributing factor. I can absolutely see a tired pilot getting their procedures mixed up and calling for a gear retract during G/A even when they shouldn't for the windshear. Fairly simple mistake to make if you're drowsy.

Atakacs
The video filmed the evacuation from the left hand side, the engine is still attached. Did you bother to watch the external videos showing the right hand side, the major fire and subsequent explosion?

I'm afraid I'm in agreement with InSeat19c.

Whilst we all believe we will behave in a certain manner in an extreme situation we can never be sure what we will do when faced with it for real.

I agree that reaching for your overhead belonging is, in my opinion, foolish you have to consider that perhaps these people might well be willing to risk their life and others for what's in the bag.

If you've ever seen the queues for the Indian Bullets in the UAE you would understand.

What I say from the front is irrelevant, when the sh*t hits the fan any plan goes out the window with it in the cabin! The cabin crew do an excellent job attempting to guide the herd out of the doors. They are the real heroes here.

It is easy to criticise the cabin baggage brigade, slides blowing in the wind, engines exploding and the causes of the accident. Surely the most important lesson is that everyone on board survived. this must be due to the advances in safety procedures, equipment, aircraft design protocols etc over the past decades. The industry has moved forward.

the explosion was probably a wheel assembly. While they do have fusible plugs, they may not necessarily melt in time. Can't think of many other pressure vessels large enough to do much. The wing skin over the gear area may be what was seen flying.

Fuel tanks don't explode.

93 seconds from when that recording starts to when the camera hits daylight. Evacuation couldn't have started much before then.
As for the fire, even at the end of the trip, there's a lot of fuel and very little metal. Not even the 777 is designed to protect its contents from a fire of any significant duration or intensity.
With regards to overhead bins, you just can't win. Sure, you can make an announcement on the P/A, but even in the best of circumstances -- native speaker to native listener, perfect sound reproduction with normal background noise, no 400-Hz buzz -- the message is not always resolvable. The more complicated, the harder it gets. Really, if you can get "Evacuate" across, you can't hope for more. Now, add in all the things that go wrong with an airline P/A, and it's foolish to even try.
As for the folks in overhead bins -- there's probably a knock-on effect too: the aisle is blocked, as the person ahead is fishing in the bin. Might as well grab the bag, right?

What happened? Dunno. Flightradar24 has put online their ADS-B data in a CSV format, and they seem to be suggesting that it involves hitting a low altitude (GPS or unadjusted pressure?) of 475 ft, then going up to 600 before settling in at 525/50 (granularity seems to be 25 feet) after 16 seconds.
They could have balked hard. Not AC 621-hard, but hard enough to settle back in. We'll find out.

Holy cow, that evacuation video gave me the creeps. I guess announcements at the beginning of flights regarding the issue of carry-on during an evacuation must become a lot more forceful.

IMHO, if what we see was the fuel in the right wing exploding, it will become a lot more difficult to justify SQ's (lack of) response with the whole wing on fire, irrespective of the different circumstances.

@Sunfish
Why are fuel tank inerting systems now mandated if tanks don't explode?
Ive been to funerals due to a fuel tank exploding so don't talk out of your arse.

EEngr: The evac. video is over 180 sec. long, thus the 45 sec. media report is in error. During normal disembark, at most half the doors are in use, often fewer, and people aren't in much of a hurry - they know they'll just have to to queue at immigration.

Kudos to the team on board for saving lives. EK is very lucky that they walk away with just written off AC. God bless the soul of the fire fighter.
I some where blame the work culture in EK which instils fear among pilots of getting warning letter for any thing and every thing.
The management should wake up.

I wonder how many people on this plane even understood English?
Yes, it's the international language of aviation, and a widely taught second language in India and UAE, but I didn't hear any of the passengers using the English language. Clearly, NOBODY understood the (English only) commands to leave everything.

I'd say we have a 'teaching moment' here for the aviation industry.

EQL, fullwings,

There is no system to measure windshear, it is all from pilot interaction with ATC, so when it is reported, the WS tag goes on until a pilot tells ATC there wasnt any.

With DXB, it has been shown to have headwinds at both ends. There are turns of 180 degrees of winds at altitude.

Surprised at people defending those who grabbed their bags.
Is it really "instinct?"
The crew get off last. Any delay you cause is reducing the chance of them getting out safely. The same people who have been making your flight comfy and running around getting you drinks and extra snacks. The same people who are now trying to keep you alive by getting you off quickly. But it's ok to delay their safe egress because of "instinct"? Nonsense.
It's also instinct to swim when you're in water, but we all want lifejackets.

Could those in the know comment on;
No PA announcement for passengers to remain seated.
No instructions were given over PA to passengers for the duration of the video.
If the PA order to evacuate was given before video rolled then the evac was well beyond 90 seconds.
If no evac order given prior to video rolling why aren't CC telling everyone to remain seated?
We're the CC able to seen the engine sitting on top of the wing before opening right side middle cabin doors?

Did they only open right side doors when they realised that two of the left had side doors were not operative?


Mickjoebill

Regardless of what, why, who caused the Emirates 777 crash today, MASSIVE respect to the cabin crew that evacuated that aircraft without any loss of life. ‪#‎trainingmatters‬

FE Hoppy:

Have it your own way and join the multitude of uninformed media and armchair experts who talk about exploding jet fuel every time there is a crash and fire. Exploding wheels are a recognized safety hazard in an aircraft fire and you have Six(?) of them sitting in a pool of burning jet fuel under the right wing. The wheel rims contain fusible plugs to prevent brake fires causing a tyre explosion but maybe these didn't work as advertised this time.

mickjoebill

Asiana 214 had some issues with slides, check that report for details, can't remember off the top of my head.

Sunfish

TWA800. Concorde

GREAT job by the Cabin Crew in the very worst of circumstances - GREAT respect for the fire crews who risk their lives in these situations (indeed one brave lad lost his life) - and good job ATC for picking a gear issue on final and sorting out the mess afterwards - Tower staff have so many things to monitor in the Cab it's GREAT to hear they still look out the windows and look out for those Pilots :)

I know it might be an unpopular opinion in here but for once I'd like to give some pats on the back to the costa drinkers at EK HQ. The EK social media team and Network ops teams have done a great job in getting information out both about the accident as well as operational disruption information.

Champ

Don't you ladies and gents think that in case there is time to prepare the cabin for the emergency landing while the AC is still airborne, the pax should be given 5 min or so to collect their passports and say, one more item from their bags? So small items that they always try to save by taking the entire bag during the evac.

This could help to save precious time during the evac! You can clearly see that the evac could have been even faster if those mor*ns didn't waste time taking their luggage!

Plus imagine the crew is there with the plane on fire, risking his\her life for those extra 60 secs, so the pax can take their stupid bag?.. The risk is worth for someone's life, not someone's greed of not being able to let go luggage worth 70$..

That video of the evacuation should become part of cabin crew training and viewed by all commercial pilots, it shows how people really react, not the orderly evacuation we see a training.

Amazing job by the flight attendants, they are often some of the nicest attendants and appear also to be great on the safety side of things.

Sunfish
I am not going to be drawn into a protracted physics lesson, but will just say that at no point did FE Hoppy mention FUEL exploding. Believe me he is well qualified to speak and is not one of the uninformed masses to which you allude. I suggest you read and digest the following, paying particular attention to the word 'ullage' and references to fuel tank inerting. I believe these are the funerals he refers to. RIP Lads and to the firefighter who lost his life earlier today.

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...f_hercules.pdf

I have "massive" respect for Ppruners who have a complete understanding of what went on inside the cabin and what part CC played, especially since the Twitter video indicates evacuation may have taken longer than 90 seconds.

Unless we constructively criticise there will be no pressure to reevaluate procedures.
With sincere respect to cabin crew on this flight.



Mickjoebill