BT! If the captain of an aircraft has an in-flight emergency and decides that an airport is the most appropriate place to go to, he will go there. The airport authorities don't get a say in the matter, even though they may wish he went to the next airport. Subsequent disruption is not a factor in deciding where to go. Super VC-10 is online now Report Post If a jet has a problem that is going to cause problems with the airport - e.g. a Hydraulic leak - then he won't be allowed into OMDB, it'll be sent to OMDW, a 5 min flight away. Local procedures. You can rant all you like about Captain's authority, if the problem doesn't occur on final, and there is time to plan for it, the jet is going to OMDW. |
EK521
Last Update: 2016-08-03 12:57:11 GMT
An Emirates Airlines Boeing 777-300, registration A6-EMW performing flight EK-521 from Thiruvananthapuram (India) to Dubai (United Arab Emirates) with 282 passengers and 18 crew, was on final approach to Dubai's runway 12L at 12:41L (08:41Z) but attempted to go around from low height. The aircraft however did not climb, but after retracting the gear touched down on the runway and burst into flames. All occupants evacuated safely, no injuries are being reported. The aircraft burned down completely. The airline reported: "Emirates can confirm that an incident happened at Dubai International Airport on 3rd August 2016 at about 12.45pm local time." United Arab Emirates Government confirmed an Emirates aircraft arriving from India suffered a crash landing at Dubai Airport, all passengers have been evacuated, there are no reports of injuries. According to ATC recordings the aircraft performed a normal approach and landing, there was no priority or emergency declared. Upon contacting tower tower reminded the crew of lowering the gear and cleared the aircraft to land. Another approach reported on tower frequency. About 2 minutes after EK-521 reported on tower, the crew reported going around, tower instructed the aircraft to climb to 4000 feet, the crew acknowledged climbing to 4000 feet, a few seconds later tower instructs the next arrival to go around and alerts emergency services. The position of the aircraft is described near the end of the runway. Related NOTAM: A1156/16 - AD CLSD. 03 AUG 11:20 2016 UNTIL 03 AUG 14:00 2016. CREATED: 03 AUG 11:18 2016 A1155/16 - AD CLSD. 03 AUG 10:00 2016 UNTIL 03 AUG 12:00 2016. CREATED: 03 AUG 10:07 2016 Metars (Airport: Dubai, Dubai International Airport): OMDB 030900Z 11021KT 3000 BLDU NSC 49/07 Q0993 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 1500 OMDB 030800Z 14012KT 100V180 6000 NSC 48/09 Q0994 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 4000 DU OMDB 030749Z 14012KT 110V180 6000 NSC 47/09 Q0994 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 4000DU OMDB 030700Z 06007KT 360V100 8000 NSC 44/10 Q0995 NOSIG OMDB 030600Z 06005KT 350V100 8000 NSC 42/12 Q0995 NOSIG The last seconds of slide out after failed go-around: The aircraft erupting into flames (Video: Kazim Abbas): The wreckage of A6-EMW after fire was extinguished (Photo: dotEmirates): A6-EMW on fire at Dubai (Photo: Airport WebCams): Map (Graphics: AVH/Google Earth): |
Originally Posted by Ranger One
(Post 9460726)
Great idea - until someone's laptop lithium battery goes into runaway and the locking system fails in the 'locked' mode... :ugh:
Locking the bins when the seatbelt sign is on will prevent injuries and potentially save lives throughout periods or turbulence, post landing taxy and emergency evacuations. Go bang your head a bit more, you seem to enjoy it. |
I know FR24 isn't totally reliable, but there were two aircraft immediately ahead of, and behind the aircraft. No known emergency declared prior to touchdown, and no emergency squawk. So the report of planning for an emergency landing doesn't look right. Unless quickly announced during a short lived windshear event, which I can't see happening, as the crew would be likely fighting the conditions.
This is Emirates' very first hull loss in 31 years of ops. With respect to the crew and passengers. |
Originally Posted by flyonthewall
(Post 9460718)
Could it be that on the initial heavy touchdown something came adrift and power was not available from the no:2 engine? That plus a hot day, tailwind and an old straight 300 (not a great performer on a good day), may explain the alleged 'sinking back onto the runway' theory. Pure speculation of course...
Another thing among the many things that will be looked into from a low level go-around is if you press the TOGA switches to go-around but TO/GA is inhibited while on the ground. If you don't manually push the thrust levers forward you are trying to go around with idle thrust. I believe it resulted in an MD-80 crash in Thailand. Added... Remember...TOGA is inhibited on the ground. As related to this accident. You heard it here first. |
An Emirati and an Aussie. That's like Chuck Yeager and Bob Hoover teaming up.
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Regarding Wiflex' observation of the events. How about last-second decision change? Eg. The PF decides and commands go around after a hard touchdown. Then he changes his decision, while the other pilot already retracts the gear... This happened before in my company and resulted in a belly landing (fire/major damage though...)
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There is some possibility that squat switches might have played a part in the g-around. Perhaps the cockpit procedures might not be what is being presumed by some of the readers here.
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No, dsc810. Those with a brain leave their bags behind rather than risk their own and other people's lives while they delay the evac to collect things from the overheads, create trip hazards and hurl heavy bags down slides in case someone needs injuring that way.
Those with even larger brains keep items such as passports, phones and wallets about their person so there is no need for decision and/or delay in the event of an evac. |
This makes me think of a sim exercise my company did after a couple of inadvertent flap retractions. Low altitude go around with PNF retracting flaps iso gear.
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First action for G/A in the 777 is Flap 20. The lever is gated so pretty hard to inadvertently take it further than that.
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If the Go-Around was initiated still whilst airborne and a touchdown occured then the F/D GA mode would still be available with TOGA.
If the GA was initiated after touchdown but before reverse selection then the manoeuvre must be flown manually and the GA mode selected with the TOGA switches once airborne. It can get loud and messy in that case! |
attempted to go around from low height. The aircraft however did not climb, but after retracting the gear touched down on the runway and burst into flames. Which ingredient was missing in that list? |
Originally Posted by sarah737
(Post 9460783)
This makes me think of a sim exercise my company did after a couple of inadvertent flap retractions. Low altitude go around with PNF retracting flaps iso gear.
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Originally Posted by keepitrealok
(Post 9460734)
Nice rant Super VC-10, but ignorant.
If a jet has a problem that is going to cause problems with the airport - e.g. a Hydraulic leak - then he won't be allowed into OMDB, it'll be sent to OMDW, a 5 min flight away. Local procedures. You can rant all you like about Captain's authority, if the problem doesn't occur on final, and there is time to plan for it, the jet is going to OMDW. |
Looks like DXB is open again.
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Originally Posted by Ian W
(Post 9460682)
So if a 'good decision' is made and because of that decision a number of pax are injured and some die, whereas had that action not been taken all would have survived uninjured. You would still defend the decision as a good one? Interesting logic.
I'll say it again though for the avoidance of doubt. A good outcome doesn't mean that a good decision was made. Perhaps they made no decision and were simply lucky. The word decision implies that there are alternative courses of action. Those who claim 'this is a no-brainer' are effectively saying there is no 'decision' it is an automatic action. Easier to automate out flight crew when everything is 'no brainer' - like maintain pitch and power (another no brainer action proposed in other threads). |
Different outcome with gear down?
Would it have overrun the runway and had a more deadly outcome with the gear down? Or is it just sand off the end?
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What sort of damage would this have done to the runway surface?
Surely going to impact on DXB operations in the short term? |
Sop
Originally Posted by ACMS
(Post 9460452)
Changing the Aircraft configuration during a Windshear escape Manoeuvre??? I hope not
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G/a steps on any a/c -
Power and pitch change. Flaps to initial g/a position Positive rate - gear up. If using automation, and it doesn't perform as desired, manual intervention is required. |
Unless it's windshear.
In which case its call the windshear go around, hit the TOGA switches and wait/follow the FD! Once it has been confirmed the event is over (both entry and exit!) then call go-around 'flaps' etc. |
G/a steps on any a/c - |
Is this first ever hull loss for EK?
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With regard to the pax with their carry on baggage, I was at an operator's meeting a few months ago and the subject was brought up, one solution was that all rescued carry-ons should be removed from the owners and destroyed, my favourite was placing a sniper on the fire truck next to the guy with the foam gun, as the foam is flowing the sniper picks off anyone carrying their baggage.
Personally I was wear a security pouch under my shirt with my cell phone, some cash and a credit card (or two)and my passport, having had to evacuate an aeroplane in a hurry as a passenger, I found afterwards that those four items would have made life an awful lot simpler. The same pouch sits next to my seat during every take-off and landing at work. |
Originally Posted by Sailvi767
(Post 9460813)
I am curious, everyone seems to hint that Emirites management rules the airport and airline with a iron fist. The airport consistently reported a tailwind in excess of the normal 10 knot limit both before and after the landing. If a pilot refused to land with that wind report and demanded a landing into the traffic flow would that request be honored and would he face any action from management for the delays that might cause at the airport?
The mishap occurred at about 0845Z and they 'landed' on runway 12L. Here's the reported hourly weather observations from an earlier post on this thread: SA 03/08/2016 09:00-> METAR OMDB 030900Z 11021KT 3000 BLDU NSC 49/07 Q0993 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 1500= SA 03/08/2016 08:00-> METAR OMDB 030800Z 14012KT 100V180 6000 NSC 48/09 Q0994 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 4000 DU= Some airlines buy data from the manufacturer for 15 knot tailwinds and also higher OAT's, not sure if it is available for the Triple. If you demanded a landing into the traffic flow at ATL or JFK you'd probably hear from the chief pilot's office, right? |
Not so simples...
Originally Posted by asdf1234
(Post 9460696)
Any pax between me and the exit seen reaching for their luggage in the bins, putting my life at risk, gets punched by me, repeatedly if needs be.
All pax photographed with their hand luggage need to be arrested for disobeying the lawful instruction of the flight crew. I'm only glad that there were no pax or crew fatalities but one day people will die because ignorant pax deem their hand luggage more important than a human life. Time to introduce locking overhead bins. Only accessible when the the seatbelt sign has been turned off. Simples! |
777
To me it looks like the landing gear was for whatever reason retracted prematurely so when the aircraft settled back on the runway, which can sometimes happen during a go around it crashed on its belly fuselage.
These kind of accidents have happened before. If it turn out to be that scenario then the flight crew would be to blame. Nevertheless the cabin crew did an outstanding job getting out everyone alive and should be commended. And yes, this is the first hull loss in EK history and the worst accident to date. Also, I can confirm it was an emirati Capt. and expat FO. soon we will know exactly what happened. |
Originally Posted by MLHeliwrench
(Post 9460837)
Would it have overrun the runway and had a more deadly outcome with the gear down? Or is it just sand off the end?
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Those surface winds - easterly TEMPO northerly? Never seen such weirdness the nine years I worked at airfields. Must be very tricky to handle. OMDB 031000Z 11018KT 5000 BLDU NSC 49/05 Q0993 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 1500 OMDB 031048Z VRB06KT 6000 NSC 41/24 Q0992 WS ALL RWY TEMPO 35015KT 3000 DU If it was a different airmass moving inland, you can get odd effects during the transition, like tailwinds on both ends of the runway. I guess it would pick up a fair bit of dust as well as the TEMPO 1500 alludes. |
ACMS . . .
"The EVAC command doesn't come straight away, it takes time to run the appropriate EICAS then the EVAC checklist etc. .." |
Originally Posted by asdf1234
(Post 9460737)
So the laptop battery goes awol in an unlocked bin at 38000ft. You still have an overhead bin fire to contend with. Who says the unlocked bin fire will be noticed and acted upon in time?
Locking the bins when the seatbelt sign is on will prevent injuries and potentially save lives throughout periods or turbulence, post landing taxy and emergency evacuations. Go bang your head a bit more, you seem to enjoy it. |
I'm wondering about the ARFF response time and the fire fighting action. If any ppl can give me some information about those issues I would be very very interested!
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From the Dubai Media Twitter feed:
"Ahmed bin Saeed: We pay tribute to the firefighter who lost his life fighting the blaze. We thank all teams that dealt with the incident." |
Airbubba, all EK Triples are certified for 15kts tailwind limitation. And yes, this is the first hull loss although there is some debate over wether the A340-500 "incident" in Melbourne a few years back should have been a hull loss or not.
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Report here mentions pilot announced it would be emergency landing. Accuracy unknown..
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/aug/03/passengers-evacuated-after-plane-crash-lands-at-dubai-airport |
QUOTE:
It is reminiscent of a sea breeze or sea air incursion, with the lowering of temperature and increase in dew point. Happens quite a bit at airfields that get coastal influences. Absolutely correct. I was a forecaster at RAF Nicosia 1961-64. The sea breeze always arrived with a wallop, and met the [from memory] light NW'ly so that we had opposing wind directions from each end of the runway. Sometimes we had massive gusts and dust-devils. Open doors would slam, and the temperature change suddenly. Very difficult to predict with the state of the art then, even though I did a lot of research including blagging time as observer in Army AC choppers [Scout?]. As for predicting the timing, no day was the same as another. Wind-shear? hardly taught or understood. If, as I believe, the local Met staff are taught by UK Met Office, they will be in a much better case than in my day. Congrats to all involved on the ground, and the cabin crew. Jury out on the pilots, but I am glad all worked out. |
Originally Posted by kipper the dog
(Post 9460936)
And yes, this is the first hull loss although there is some debate over whether the A340-500 "incident" in Melbourne a few years back should have been a hull loss or not.
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If this turns out to be pilot error, can we expect to see the flight crew jailed, or worse? What is the protocol in this part of the world? I'm sure their passports will be retained for starters. If they are expats, I hope their nations are able to offer them legal assistance. Could be a nightmare for these guys and their families. I wish them luck.
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What irks me is how airlinea are now downplaying accidents in the media.
This burned out Emirates hulk is according to the Emirates website the result of an "Operational Incident". Air Canada landing short of the runway at Halifax was a "hard landing". I guess my frontwheel tire blowing and car crashing into a tree would be an operational incident. Anything to avoid words like crash or crashlanding or even simply accident. |
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