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"Roger That" / "All right, Good night" Who was on that FD? |
The ping arcs cover the place where MH370 was close before fuel starvation.
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The ping arcs only cover 4 to 5 hrs and the endurance was up to 7 hrs followed by a 20 min glide of over 100nm. Many here seem to believe that the arcs are routes whereas the route is a connection of successive intersection points merely indicated by the arcs.
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An aircraft that buries itself into dirt or mud does not imply that it remains intact. It commences breaking up as it hits the water, but the horizontal separation of the parts has not proceeded significantly far in the approx single a/c length involved in this case and each part has sufficient kinetic energy to bury itself. I have watched an a/c bury itself into soft soil at around 600kts vertically and there was almost no above ground wreckage. The shallower the water the greater the chance of burial. It is not intact underground but a series of parts buried at a depth relating to penetrability. In my case the dummy missiles and engine were over 30 feet underground. If it enters water more than a few body lengths deep there will be lots of wreckage on the surface. It all depends on depth, angle and speed. So, if the 777 went nose down into mud, we may not see much. I think I also remember in the KQ crash the recorders were 20-30 feet down too. |
arc pings
@OleOle
Er not quite correct. Up to 59 minutes error, so +/- 480nm plus glide distance of up to 120nm to 150nm. So add possible error of 630nm radius to those arc's in any direction. (based on 480kts speed, 20:1 glide ratio from FL390) |
Originally Posted by fantom
(Post 8384362)
That was not sent by an operating pilot, in my opinion.
Who was on that FD? As I said before, we know that the FO did not follow proper procedures with respect to smoking and access to the cockpit so there is no reason to suppose that his RT procedures were any more correct. The Airline clearly would not want to admit that the inflight culture was as lax throughout the company but the actions of that FO suggest otherwise. I would expect in due course an enquiry will hear from other aircrew about the culture in the cockpit. |
fantom, when things are relatively quiet at night r/t discipline is often a little more relaxed. Having worked many years in ATC I can assure you that I have heard "Roger that" and other short non-standard phrases. I really don't think that there's anything particularly unusual in that exchange at that time of night and especially in that area of the world.
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I'm sure a read a thread in the CRM forums on here about cockpit culture in Malaysia or some other similar place a few years ago. A F/O posting some concerns. Pretty sure it was Korea though.
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Reference who made the last RT.
In my understanding, it is normal procedure for the pilot not flying(PNF) to handle the radios. The fact that the FO was transmitting may well be another red herring |
D.S.
Your summary post #5484 states A few other things we know(/might know) and notes - ELT never activates - there are no Black box or ELT transmissions found in the area Mike |
The ping arcs only cover 4 to 5 hrs and a chang of direction thereafter is possible. The last known ping was at 8:11 am the next morning, seven hours later. That ping means that aircraft MUST have been at least at that point. Given the fuel range, we can say for certain that it likely did not go much further than that unless it stopped an refueled along the way. Up to 59 minutes error, so +/- 480nm plus glide distance of up to 120nm to 150nm. So add possible error of 630nm radius to those arc's in any direction. |
Chinese Terrorism
"Meanwhile, claims that a 35-year-old Uighur man from China’s troubled autonomous Muslim province was on Flight MH370 may be looked at in a new light. The group claimed responsibility earlier this week but were dismissed as opportunistic and not credible, but Malaysian reports now say the passenger had taken flight-simulator training in 2005."
Uighur separatists? claim over missing flight MH370 may be re-examined | News.com.au |
The idea of the First Officer being the one who spoke in the final received message wasn't 'confirmed' today, as some news sites are saying. In the press conference it was stated that it appears that way. That's not confirmation. Appearances have not proven to be too helpful so far so it is certainly not confirmed.
Also stated in that news conference was that it was not known for sure if the ACARS was switched off before the last vocal message received from the cockpit. It was specified that at 01:07 the last ACARS message was received and at 01:19 the last voice contact was made. Then, there were no more ACARS messages. The official specifically stressed that this is not confirmation that the ACARS was turned off prior to the last voice message...only that is was after the last ACARS message that was received and then the one that should have been received 30 minutes later never arrived. I'm unaware of any official update to this, which was what happened during the press conference this morning UK time (17th March), so please update me if needed. I'm finding it irritating that the media is using the word 'confirmed' in their headlines and then using 'suggested' in the meat of the article. |
I must say, I think you have it all figured out The flight path over the peninsula can be just the aftermath of the chaos. If the flightpath was carfully figured out to miss the radar, that attemp was a complete failure. The radar plot is there and is part of this investigation. PS.: Not all tragedies on this planet are related to terrorism, probably more than 99% are not ! |
If you go down the route of someone (flight crew or hijacker) taking the plane without the need for the passengers (for ransom etc) the obvious way of dealing with them is to knock them out by whatever means during the flight rather than having to shoot them... The only way these people would still be alive is if they are to be used as hostages, surely?
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RifRaf3
An aircraft that buries itself into dirt or mud does not imply that it remains intact. It commences breaking up as it hits the water, but... In their first experiment, the experimenters shot the 9mm pistol straight down into the water. At a range of up to seven feet, the 9mm round was effective in completely penetrating the ballistics gel – meaning a person at the same range would be killed. At eight feet, the bullet entered but did not exit the gel, indicating a possible non-fatal wound. Past eight feet, the gel was undisturbed. The shotgun, loaded with a 3” deer slug instead of buckshot, not only "killed" the ballistic gel target at six feet, it destroyed the acrylic water tank, ending that method of testing. The team then switched to a swimming pool to continue the experiments – and to make the test more realistic, switched from shooting straight down to an angle of twenty to thirty degrees off the vertical, approximating a shooter standing on the edge of the water and shooting out into it. The first candidate for this test was the Civil War rifle. At a range of 15 feet, the ballistics gel was completely unharmed; likewise at five feet. Only when the range was reduced to three feet did the bullet finally penetrate the gel, suggesting that diving under water was probably a pretty effective way of dodging slugs during the Civil War. The experimenters moved on to the hunting rifle, which was loaded with a full-metal jacket .223 round that emerged at roughly 2,500 feet per second. At ten feet, the bullet disintegrated and the gel was untouched. At three feet, the bullet again broke up, with its tip coming to rest on the gel – not nearly enough power to damage flesh. A bullet from the M1 Garand, with a muzzle speed of 2,800 ft/sec, also disintegrated at the ten-foot range. At two feet, the slug penetrated about four inches into the gel, suggesting a non-fatal wound. The armor-piercing .50 caliber round didn’t do any better – it, too, came apart at distances greater than five feet and lost most of its punch by three feet. The Mythbusters team concluded that you’d be safe from firearms even if they were fired straight down to a depth of eight feet, and probably safe at much lesser depths, especially if the bullet was aimed at an angle. :D |
Burial
DS
Mythbusters were using bullets. In the a/c situation the preceeding pieces make a swathe for the following bits and it is nor comparable. I reiterate that I've seen real a/c buried and there are the instances of Sil Air and others. I'm not implying no possible wreckage, but perhaps sufficiently little to be noticed. Some may drift to the surface later if the mud is fluid enough. I'm not an absolutist like so many here addicted to closure. I'm happy to keep juggled balls in the air. I consider the buried a/c scenario my lowest priority, but I can't rule it out. |
sardak,
Thanks, was a poor word choice on the second post. Updated the post as to not cause confusion. |
Originally Posted by Mahatma Kote
(Post 8383160)
The identifying code has to be changeable. Every time there is a maintenance swap-out of equipment the code has to be reprogrammed in the new equipment.
The only question is whether it requires physical access to the relevant PCB or whether it can be done using independent maintenance systems or using pilot interfaces operating in maintenance mode. I suppose a Macgyver type or perhaps 007's Q could find a way to program the info into the relevant card memories, but this is now getting into the realm of fiction, particularly if we consider a de-rack/reprogram process would require the shutdown of the AIMS - not something one should or could do while airborne. |
It is a changeable item, generally accessed through maintenance terminals (there are several PMAT ports, three of which are only accessible on the ground) or the primary MAT located in the cockpit, however access to specialized software (GBST) is required in order to create encoded data disks for upload. In addition, while some LRU's can be manually put into 'ground' mode, the central areas of the AIMS system require the air/ground logic to be in ground mode |
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