- however, at an international boundary it would be quite unusual, though not a sackable offence, for the pilots to get away with such a casual hand-off from Malaysian ATC without at least their callsign Given the informality, they should really have been asked by ATC for a "readback" of their instructions to "Contact Vietnam on frequency xxx.x" (or something like that) to be sure that MH370 was transferring to the correct ATC in the chain. At worse, if you got the wrong freq, you'd flip the switch back on the radio panel and ask the last controller again. I fly though the VVTS FIR from time to time, seems like the southern frequency is 133.05 from memory. If I got it wrong, I could also try to look it up on these new fangled electronic charts (not trivial with the new Jepp software in my opinion), listen on guard, call on 8942 HF or whatever. But, in all probability, the frequency would be easy to find if I botched it on the handoff in the middle of a moonless night. Also, media reports of an aircraft transmission always seem to get things garbled. Unlike, say, the NTSB which has several pilots and non-pilots carefully vet the CVR transcript, these press reports may be sound bites repeated from an early briefing to government ministers. Once these 'details' are put out to the families and later announced at a media conference, it is hard to tell whether subsequent differing versions are corrections or more misunderstanding of the original transmissions. |
Tyre fire?
A link from here Malaysia Airlines MH370 live: 26 countries now involved in search - Telegraph 18.09 Could the pilot have been trying to navigate to Langkawi after a fire on board knocked out the transponder and secondary radar tracking? Could this theory, put forward by a chap called Chris Goodfellow on Google Plus, be a rational explanation for Flight MH370? http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/...g_1817841a.gif The left turn is the key here. This was a very experienced senior Captain with 18,000 hours. Maybe some of the younger pilots interviewed on CNN didn't pick up on this left turn. We old pilots were always drilled to always know the closest airport of safe harbor while in cruise. Airports behind us, airports abeam us and airports ahead of us. Always in our head. Always. Because if something happens you don't want to be thinking what are you going to do - you already know what you are going to do. Instinctively when I saw that left turn with a direct heading I knew he was heading for an airport. Actually he was taking a direct route to Palau Langkawi a 13,000 foot strip with an approach over water at night with no obstacles. He did not turn back to Kuala Lampur because he knew he had 8,000 foot ridges to cross. He knew the terrain was friendlier towards Langkawi and also a shorter distance. https://plus.google.com/106271056358...ts/GoeVjHJaGBz For me the loss of transponders and communications makes perfect sense if a fire. There was most likely a fire or electrical fire. In the case of fire the first response if to pull all the main busses and restore circuits one by one until you have isolated the bad one. If they pulled the busses the plane indeed would go silent. It was probably a serious event and they simply were occupied with controlling the plane and trying to fight the fire. Aviate, Navigate and lastly communicate. There are two types of fires. Electrical might not be as fast and furious and there might or might not be incapacitating smoke. However there is the possibility given the timeline that perhaps there was an overheat on one of the front landing gear tires and it blew on takeoff and started slowly burning. Yes this happens with underinflated tires. Remember heavy plane, hot night, sea level, long run takeoff. There was a well known accident in Nigeria of a DC8 that had a landing gear fire on takeoff. A tire fire once going would produce horrific incapacitating smoke. Yes, pilots have access to oxygen masks but this is a no no with fire. Most have access to a smoke hood with a filter but this will only last for a few minutes depending on the smoke level. (I used to carry one of my own in a flight bag and I still carry one in my briefcase today when I fly). What I think happened is that they were overcome by smoke and the plane just continued on the heading probably on George (autopilot) until either fuel exhaustion or fire destroyed the control surfaces and it crashed. Also a look at the age and number of cycles on those nose tires might give us a good clue too. Fire in an aircraft demands one thing - you get the machine on the ground as soon as possible. There are two well remembered experiences in my memory. The AirCanada DC9 which landed I believe in Columbus Ohio in the eighties. That pilot delayed descent and bypassed several airports. He didn't instinctively know the closest airports. He got it on the ground eventually but lost 30 odd souls. In the 1998 crash of Swissair DC-10 off Nova Scotia was another example of heroic pilots. They were 15 minutes out of Halifax but the fire simply overcame them and they had to ditch in the ocean. Just ran out of time. That fire incidentally started when the aircraft was about an hour out of Kennedy. Guess what the transponders and communications were shut off as they pulled the busses. Get on Google Earth and type in Pulau Langkawi and then look at it in relation to the radar track heading. 2+2=4 That for me is the simple explanation why it turned and headed in that direction. Smart pilot. Just didn't have the time. I can't recall a tyre fire being discussed. Is it possible? (Apologies if the above have already been covered - PM me delete and I'll delete.) |
Originally Posted by GarageYears
(Post 8384307)
:{ Oh Dear God :ugh:
Now planes apparently can crash from some 35000ft and simply spear into 150ft of water and embed themselves in 60 feet of mud... all without breaking up. :mad: No. Now planes apparently can crash from some 35000ft and simply spear into 150ft of water and GENTLY embed themselves in 60 feet of mud. |
If the disappearance of MH370 was caused by suicide of one of the pilots and his goal was to commit the "perfect suicide", to disappear without a trace and leave the world mystified, then we will probably never find out.
We have no clue where the plane is. The pilot might have ditched the plane in a controlled way to avoid breaking it apart and any floatable parts separating from the aircraft, and then let it sink as a whole in a remote and deep part of the ocean. If we ever find it, we will most likely find that the CVR and the FDR had been disabled before the events started. |
Without an autopilot wind conditions other than wind sheer/turbulence are hardly relevant as you are flying relative to the air mass. Wind is relative to the ground. Most a/c wind (sic) up in a spiral dive after a while although high stability types have been known to go on for a long time. Jet airliners are not particulaly stable as they rely on computers for some stability.
Wind will not cause two 90 degree turns. No offence, but if your level of basic understanding of aviation is this low you should really post elsewhere. |
Originally Posted by arewenotmen
(Post 8384245)
The missing piece would seem to be the six other satellite pings. If they were all the same range, then I can't see any other possibility.
Indeed this would be an important bit of Information: Has the signal level changed between the last pings and how does that correlate with the INMARSAT radians? Moreover: Were the pings prior to that flight consistent with the profiles and timings of these previous flights. It would also be interesting to follow an assumed flight path based on the result of these considerations with a 777 and verify the results. Can assumed Radar Returns and ping signal levels and timings be reproduced? This might be a good idea compared to Weeks and Months of fruitless searches in the wrong area based on false and unverified assumptions. |
Bearcat.
All the scenarios are far fetched, that's how accidents happen in an environment of high safety and redundancy. Yes, the fires would have to occur in that 'far-fetched' manner for this to occur. So what. I'm interested in the least far-fetched scenario. |
How accurate were those left, right, left turns and the vectors on the images a few hundred thread pages back? The right turn after crossing the peninsula appears headed back to Phuket which may have been the nearest airport. Might suggest one of the FD crew momentarily recovered from the initial/onging event or hypoxia and was trying to get the airplane on the ground. Also, if the initial event took out the ARINC 429 buss, that might explain the loss of ACARS, Transponder, and all communications.
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Originally Posted by MountainBear
(Post 8384448)
@vapilot. What about the possibility of spoofing, rather than changing, the identifier?
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A few posts, professional pilot working for an OEM, not Boeing.
GF |
If an oxygen bottle failed in the avionics bay and pierced the hull, would the temperature in the bay fall to -40C quickly?
How well would the electronics work at -40C? Would the humidity in the air exiting the aircraft coat the cables and electronics with ice? How well would the electronics work at -40C and coated with ice? |
Fire
I was one of the first people to bring up the possibility of fire many days ago. i reject that hypothesis now. The problem is the simple and basic truth that at 8:11 AM, seven hours later, the airplane pinged a satellite. I'm convinced that this data is legit. I've looked into the computer side of it closely and it makes sense. There is no possible fire scenario that I can imagine that would allow power to that specific unit and not allow power to any other unit. For one, all the SATCOM share the same power circuit. If a fire took out ACARS and the transponder it took out all other SATCOM too. Since the SATCOM was live seven hours later, no fire. Not possible.
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Shawk
Electronics are speced differently for a/c compared with your TV and they don't necessarily ice up. It's a reasonable point however for a non aviator. Backoffice Are you saying that the nose wheel was hundreds of miles ahead of the a/c? The oil worker was too far away as has been covered many times before. His evidence is not infallible. Please read earlier posts. |
Is there anyone posting on this thread who is either: 1 A professional pilot? 2 Has any evidence other than 'MH370 has disappeared'? |
There certainly is a lot of crap being written in here by people that don't know much about Airlines or Flying Jet A/C.:D
Yes the post above this is a PRIME example of utter rubbish. 1/ You do realize that the 772ER most likely wouldn't reach much above FL400 at the weight they were even with the GEAR UP!! Let alone the crew selecting gear down to Extinguish a wheel well fire. 2/ the nose gear wheel well does not have Fire detection anyway.... 3/ under inflated wheels will not catch Fire...... 4/ the 777 is equipped with a tire pressure monitoring system ( TPIS ) and the crew would get an EICAS message if any wheels were under inflated. 5/ I've got nothing more except utter contempt for the rubbish I read in here by people that quite obviously know nothing about Wide body Jets or the Airlines that fly them. Please remember that the media do read this site people. Try to keep it real. |
Nosewheel fire
@Papershuffler
Interesting theory, would make sense. If, yeah if there wouldn't exist some other facts(?), that we seem to know by today. But still, after reading a lot of garbage in this thread, at least something that would make sense.. |
Mountain bear
Your point is a valid one, but perhaps a little dogmatic. If it's correct that last ping was picked up by only one sat as opposed to two sats at 4 to 5 hrs giving intersection arcs, then fire gets less likely. Those reasons, assuming the pings are reliable evidence, make a hijacking to a distant Nthn, or Sthn area the best scenario and that's just what the authorities seem to be opting for. |
I've discounted this oil rig story since the first report.
One factor that hasn't been considered is humidity. Even given the time of year, this is still a very warm place. And the sea creates a lot of haze, vapor and spray when it is warm. I'm sure if we have any tropical sailors here, they will tell you that it's very difficult to see something close to the horizon in these conditions at any reasonable distance, let alone hundreds of miles. Certainly that's been my limited experience. So the sighting is simply totally wrong. I think he saw meteorites if it was anything. |
Oil rig sighting
Please lets dismiss this report. It is too unreliable. He either didn't see the plane (maybe a meteor), or it is an unfortunate hoax.
1. I could not find a time for this sighting. Did I miss this? Its not on the original photo. This seems very strange given the precise details given (his coordinates, bearing to sighting). 2. Gives a precise bearing but no elevation other than "high altitude" 3. If he saw MH 370, we know that he could not possibly have seen anything more than a light right on the horizon. How would he conclude this was "high altitude". 4. A fire visible from that distance? I don't think the plane would have flown much further. Where is the wreckage? Would the SATCOM have been destroyed in such a fire? If so, what is the source of the ongoing pings? 5. If he really did see MH370 in one piece and at high altitude, it must have been much closer. 10-20 miles away perhaps. So it flew on for another 30 minutes or so after transponder turned off. Despite Vietnam very early on stating it had reversed course. And anyway, where is the wreckage and where did the pings come from? 6. Nothing more heard from him since. If you get rid of this datum, what other evidence is there that the plane flew on. This sighting seems to be the only "evidence", and it simply doesn't hold water. |
Electronics in cold ambient temperatures
Commercial chips are mostly designed and tested from 0 to 70 C. Industrial chips go to wider ranges, sometimes -40 to +105 C, sometimes more. Military/Aerospace spec are generally qualified from -55 to +125 C and are warehoused in a secure cage separately from commercial and industrial quality chips, with documentation attached to prove their having been tested.
Complete systems are temperature cycled between the limits while cycling the power supply between its limits. I believe avionics uses mil/aerospace qual chips, therefore should not be a problem at -40. That's why avionics is so expensive. |
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