Navigate by the stars
 

Nor would they be able to use the sun by day?

I am left without voice. It may not be a "commonly needed skill" but it's darn useful and I would have more confidence in flying if I knew that failing all equipment the pilots would know where they are and where they go... I was taught as a child, it's not that difficult, no need to be an astronomer...

It's a skill that could have come in handy to the pilots of MH370 on this moonless night without clouds.

I know literally nothing about the SATCOM system on the 777, but my take on the situation is that it is similar to cell phones. You can have a cell phone that is not subscribed to any service, however it is still going to "ping" the towers and attempt to register with the network and get online. The network will reject it (as the radio/customer is not subscribed), but they would theoretically have a record of the IMEI/SIM identifier sent to them during the registration process. So, I don't think there is any contradiction here. Assuming the A/C was equipped with the SATCOM radio, whether or not it was actually subscribed, it was likely attempting to join the network on a regular basis. Perhaps as part of the registration header, the A/C sends it's current position (maybe to assist in locating the correct satellite or ground gateway) - but does not successfully register due to lack of subscription. This would corroborate a statement from both RR & Boeing's saying they didn't receive any information from the customer, as well as the fact that the provider (Inmarsat? or whomever it is) received "data" from the plane.

Why is it useful? Gps, ins, nav aids, magnetic compass and you want us to get our astrolabe out too?

Surely a FBI style investigation of the homes, bank accounts, medical records, telephone records of those with access to the flight deck is underway?

Otherwise there could be an unread note, left on the kitchen table?


Mickjoebill

I think people are thinking far too much into this tragedy.

My belief is it was a simple catastrophic event most probably a serious raging fire and the aircraft was pulverised into tiny pieces upon hitting the sea near its original track.
There have been a few instances in history where that has happened where it left very little debris floating.

My problem with the hypoxia then anoxia theory is should the aircraft had headed west over the malay peninsula, crowded airspace with the transponder off then how come no atc controllers on duty in the area noticed it with primary paint and made a song and dance about an unidentified aircraft being in their airspace. Sure a military facility claims they painted the aircraft but that is not officially released info. If the military painted it then so would the civvies.

I believe this current preoccupation with engine or airframe reporting picked up by inmarsat may again be over-reaching. Are inmarsat absolutely 100% sure they were listening to the accident aircraft? How do they know MAS hasnt been swapping systems on the planes for maintenance and the system registered to mh370 was not on another plane?

As for the terrorism angle, excepting 9/11, most terrorists want to announce to the world what they are trying to achieve, not cloak and dagger so turning off transponders etc... Achieves what advantage for them?

The vast majority of accident sequences end up being very simple indeed. Anything else requires complexity that is outside the limits of most people.

If any of this turns out to be true, you can see why the Malaysians were flustered. They start off with something that looks like a 'straightforward' destruction /crash, then are gradually presented with a bunch of facts that add up to something almost beyond belief. You'd hardly want to go public with this and look like mad people. The internal arguments must have been fierce.

Pilots have truly numerous ways to navigate these days, neither Sun nor Stars are on the agenda,

WHY?
There is absolutely zero evidence that these pilots got lost or could no longer navigate.

What FIR boundaries?
 

My aviation maps for that area do not show the boundaries as depicted in the image p.j.m reposted, only some of the lines (few of them in fact) delineate between Chennai (VOMF), Kuala Lumpur (WMFC), Jakarta, Yangoon and Bangkok (VTBB) FIRs. By leg:
- IGARI-VAMPI crosses in and out of VTBB/WMFC FIRs
- VAMPI-GIVAL follows no boundary and remains inside WMFC FIR
- GIVAL-IGREX remains well inside WMFC.

All based on the (current) SkyVector Hi/Lo alt enroute charts.

What sort of chart was used by the OP?

And if thy want x number of aircraft for a future act of terrorism, do you think they are going to tip their hand before they actually commit it?

Personally, I think we need security beefed up, and on high alert at the current point in time.

You will not notice turns using 5 degrees of bank UNLESS you are looking outside and using stars for reference when the turn starts.


You will not notice very small rates of climb(100-200' FPM).


The changes are so small if you feel the initial movement, doubtful, if it stays at that pitch or bank attitude for a long time your body will use the increased G (from the 5 degree bank) or slightly increased pitch attitude, as the new baseline.


The best odds of noticing small changes would be if you're standing. Most people don't notice the G loading change, felt as a weight increase, during turns unless they are standing. Your body is more in tune to the weight or pitch changes when you're standing vs. when you're sitting.

true, however if indeed there is SATCOM telemetry for 5 hours, that would prove at least 5 hours of flight.

We don't know Inmarsat's reception coverage (although we'd like to think they can receive SATCOM anywhere), we do know the aircraft had around 7 hours worth of fuel.

excellent WSJ report
 

Insider Was Needed to Disable Plane Systems - WSJ.com

Insider Was Needed to Disable Plane Systems
If multiple communication systems aboard Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 were manually disabled, as investigators increasingly suspect happened, it would have required detailed knowledge of the long-range Boeing Co. 777's inner workings.


f multiple communication systems aboard Malaysia Airlines 3786.KU +2.13% Flight 370 were manually disabled, as investigators increasingly suspect happened, it would have required detailed knowledge of the long-range Boeing Co. BA +1.00% 777's inner workings.

The first loss of the jet's transponder, which communicates the jet's position, speed and call sign to air traffic control radar, would require disabling a circuit breaker above and behind an overhead panel. Pilots rarely, if ever, need to access the circuit breakers, which are reserved for maintenance personnel. …

…

A physical disconnection of the satellite communications system would require extremely detailed knowledge of the aircraft, its internal structure and its systems. The satellite data system is spread across the aircraft and disabling it would require physical access to key components. Disconnecting the satellite data system from the jet's central computer, known as AIMS, would disable its transmission. The central computer can be reached from inside the jet while it is flying, but its whereabouts would have to be known by someone deeply familiar with the 777.

Getting into the area housing the 777's computers would "not take a lot" of knowledge, said an aviation professional who has worked with the 777. However, this person added, "to know what to do there to disable" systems would require considerable understanding of the jet's inner workings. Some airlines outfit the access hatch to the area below the floor with a special screw to prevent unauthorized intrusion, the person added.

Orbiting satellites are designed to check in with the aircraft's satellite-communication system hourly if no data is received during that time. The pings from the aircraft became a subject of scrutiny earlier this week, said a person familiar with the matter, several days after the plane first went missing.

Goes on

Altitude and Direction changes
 

NY Times is reporting shared Malaysian military radar data shows extreme changes in altitude and direction following loss of secondary radar contact.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/15/wo...-radar.html?hp

FIR Boundaries
 

@Physicus (#3579):

You can zoom in here:

ArcGIS Viewer for Flex

Some FIR boundaries look similar, some don't. The ICAO boundary between Thailand and Malaysia, for example, zigs and zags a lot.

Excuse me if I'm not up to date but are there any sources for this flying five hours/terrorism other than the Wall Street Journal? They won't say what their sources are and I get the feeling that most other news sites are just regurgitating the WSJ's stories. It must be doing wonders for their site views but is there any corroboration at all?

If a 727 can disapear never to be seen again why not a 777 ?
 

Historically the mystery of an aircraft disappearing never to be seen again is not something new . Happened not that long ago in 2003 . If a 727 can disapear - why not a 777 ? No trace of 844AA has ever been found or that of the two Non Pilots supposedly on board .

"According to press reports, the aircraft began taxiing with no communication between the crew and the tower; maneuvering erratically, it entered a runway without clearance. With its lights off and its transponder not transmitting, 844AA took off to the southwest, and headed out over the Atlantic Ocean. The 727 and the two men have not been seen since."

on May 25, 2003, shortly before sunset, Padilla boarded the company’s Boeing 727-223, tail number N844AA. With him was a helper he had recently hired, John Mikel Mutantu, from the Republic of the Congo. The two had been working with Angolan mechanics to return the 727 to flight-ready status so they could reclaim it from a business deal gone bad, but neither could fly it. Mutantu was not a pilot, and Padilla had only a private pilot’s license. A 727 ordinarily requires three trained aircrew.

Its an interesting story and well worth a read . If you want conspiracy theory's this has everything you need - but the fact is no trace of this aircraft has ever been found .

When you look at it like that, it's seems a bit more uncontrolled

I don't know where all this "gentle turn" business is coming from. Officially, we don't have any confirmation that the aircraft deviated from its track.

All the unofficial leaks so far have indicated a "sharp turn towards west".

And *if* as the latest NYT leak indicates, your behind was launched 10000 ft up into space, and then dumped 20000 ft I think you'd notice, sleeping or not.

I am struggling to come to terms with the information presented, that the worlds superpowers, with their ability to land spacecraft on the moon, cannot find a 200+ tonne aircraft in the Earths atmosphere, or on land or water.
We were told over 30 yrs ago, that the cameras in satellites could read a car numberplate from 100 miles up. Admittedly, they have to be pointed in the right direction, and people with Mk1 eyballs, have to scan the info received. However, since 2001, surveillance and information processing has been increased 1000-fold.

We are left with only two eyewitness accounts.

1. EIGHT people, in a group on a beach in North Eastern Malaysia, ALL HEARD a massively "loud frightening noise" - a mid-air explosion - at around 1:30AM local time, pretty much right about the time of disappearance of the aircraft. This sound was so loud they rushed to the nearby area they thought it had come from.

2. An oil rig worker, on a highly-elevated platform WITNESSED a fireball in the sky, in the correct direction, at height, right about the time of the aircrafts disappearance.

It's been advised, no space satellite of any superpower, picked up this fireball. Despite this seemingly impossible scenario, it can't be dismissed that all the sky surveillance missed this event.

I can come to no other conclusion other than that a catastrophic event enveloped the aircraft and it suffered a mid-air explosion of such immensity (fed by 40 tonnes of JetA1, plus a possible list of flammable cargo items) that it was virtually vaporised. Think of the scenes of the Boeings hitting the WTC. They were virtually vaporised, and we saw the unbelievable intensity and immensity of the explosiveness of many tonnes of JetA1 when it was all ignited at once.

Yes, some parts of the aircraft survived and fell into the sea in the Gulf of Thailand. They were so scattered, they never produced an identifiable field of debris, in a sea full of SE-Asian rubbish - and the heavier parts went straight to the bottom, over a wide area.

The reports of the reputed flight path, the so-called "pings" being followed, are all electronic noise being erroneously followed - like confetti being tracked, instead of the wedding.
It's been proven, as Mickjoebill pointed out, that ACARS events have been recorded long AFTER a crash silenced the power plants.
I cannot really believe, for one minute, that the supposed "aircraft track" to the West is following a flight deviation that involves a dog-leg path from waypoint to waypoint. There is limited fuel, a hijacker of any persuasion isn't going to ignore that fact.

It's stupidity to even conjecture that a path such as the dog-leg one outlined to the West, is the aircrafts path, and that it has been hijacked with evil intent.

Aircraft follow the laws of physics and the laws of physics state that man-made constructions fail, and airborne objects return to Earth faster than you can say Jack Robinson.

In that case there would have been an emergency call or at least a brief 7700 squawk. Even Swiss Air managed to talk to the controllers even as molten metal was raining in the cockpit. The time 1:07 for the ACARS log off was before the aircraft was handed over to Vietnam. So the nice good night from the pilot was as they were fighting a fire?