No cargo manifest yet... anyone something on it?

Mandatory GPS tracking
 

It's one thing that Amelia Earhart could vanish without a trace over the Pacific some 77 years ago - but a modern airliner carrying 239 souls in this day and age? (And no matter where, really)

Doesn't it raise the question of mandatory GPS tracking equipment on board all aircraft flying on routes where they will be travelling in airspace not covered by SSR? Or to keep it simple and stupid: All airliners certified for commercial operation?

The bandwidth needed for transmitting what would at the most be an SMS containing the A/C registration number, altitude, speed OTG and coordinates maybe every 2 minutes isn't prohibitively expensive. I'd suspect the cost of this one search for MH370 could pay for the whole shebang for quite some time.

This equipment would have to be somehow NOT connected to the rest of the aircraft's avionics and have an independent back up power supply so as to
be able to operate for ex 5 hours on its own.

It could be jammed of course but at least that would leave the world with a last known position and the knowledge that someone was actively working against being tracked.

One further bit of "evidence" for the VHF engine monitoring signals being picked up by NSA satellites is that the reporting and the white house both specifically mention that the engines kept running.

If this was just normal satellite pinging being identified then why would they mention the engines running?

However, if the RR VHF transmissions were being picked up by the NSA then they could actually see that the engine diagnostics were the ones doing the pinging and, presumably, they only do that when powered up.

Indeed, and depending how detailed the diagnostics RR received(ie what angle the variable rotors and stators are at) they would have a rough idea of what altitude the aircraft was at when the data was sent

'Pings' every half an hour?
 

(Apologies if already covered.) If the 'pings' were still regular, does that suggest that nothing had malfunctioned on board, i.e. it was reporting as per any normal flight? (That would indicate that conversely, irregular pings would signify an event such as AF447.)

Or is it that the aircraft only attempted to make contact/a report every half an hour?

MH Experience - Fleet - Boeing 777-200 | Malaysia Airlines

This is a strong indicator Malaysa has SATCOMM on board its 772. Their ACARS just doesn't seem to be configured to use it. Whatever equipment they use (inmarsat iridium thuraya etc...) normaly there would be some kind of keep alive protocol between airborne transceiver and the communication satellite. With iridium there is also a cell phone like handover between the satellites.

Claybird

For a practical example of "cause and effect" and to offer some professional example to illustrate the effect of both explosive decompression, the resultant hypoxic cabin atmosphere, with measured internal systems damage, and a resultant rapid depletion or remaining flight crew oxygen reserve.

You only have to consider a simple 10 litre oxygen flight crew reserve cylinder at 150 bar pressure exiting through the aircraft skin with the equal and opposite reaction of the cylinder valve exiting up into the passenger cabin causing additional damage and the required decompression leak path.

If in addition the oxygen release were to act with an ignition event, the "fire triangle" of adiabatic heat with a fuel source (metal material etc ) together with the oxygen acting as a fuel you have the basics of an oxygen plasma fire.

The photos below illustrate this with Boeing 747-482 (VH-OJK) Manila Philippines 25 July 2008 just the mechanical explosive damage without a resultant fire of one of the high pressure oxygen reserve cylinders in the forward hold section of the B747

If of interest detail and engineering can be discussed in detail but it does illustrate clearly causation effect.


http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/...ps04a4df7d.jpg

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/...pse0d6eec1.jpg

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6df7a4a2.jpg

http://i1311.photobucket.com/albums/...ps9a75b361.jpg

So does the monitoring system actually send current status between engine status changes?

The impression I got from earlier posts here was no...that the only time they actually report data is when the engines have significant mode changes and/or there is some parameter that goes beyond a critical threshold.

If my impression is correct, then it again would be consistent with the original WSJ reporting. They know the engines were running and stayed running but don't know anything about their condition or power status, etc. That then gives them the 4-5 hours of continuous flying at some speed, altitude and direction.

Malaysian Airlines MH370 contact lost
 

Thanks to all contributing in a meaningful way to this incredible situation!

It would seem to me inconceivable, after 911, with all the money thrown at trying to mitigate risks etc, that NRO/NSA etc don't have programmes to monitor aircraft movements around the world (and I don't mean through fr23!) - they mandated secure cockpit doors against threats of hijacking but didn't have policies on place to know the whereabouts of an aircraft with it's comms switched off?

I suspect we are now in a phase of the US and others quietly leaking/pushing the Malaysians and others into finding this thing with hints , clues etc as they replay and analyse their satellite swoops (hint the indications today). Completely agree that the likes of china and the us won't be in a rush to reveal their abilities but you get to a point that this starts looking so bad it's unreal!

If this plane did somehow land all in tact what in earth could be the point? To fly it somewhere into something? In which case you could just do that in the first plane on a scheduled route.

If the plane was intended to crash, why turn off comms? Surely a terrorist attack is only "effective" if it's publicised. Or is this the ultimate riddle to show how things aren't in control?

Is this a hijacking gone wrong? They turned off stuff then the pilots created hypoxia to trh and incapacitate the jackers, but then crash into the sea (North) 4 hours later?

First change that will happen after this calms down: live, "tamper proof" blackbox feedback. And I suspect those passport databases will be getting checked a bit more too (even if in his case they they turn out to be irrelevant)

What system are other non essential transmitting systems powered off (radalt etc) Guessing not the emergency and battery busses.... If your engines are running, your idg's obviously have to be running. Acars isn't the only way of determining engines on/off status I suspect.

How is the engine data transmitted?

Does the Engine send data via one of the ARINC buses to a RR decoder/transmitter device in the bay and then to an existing antenna for onward dissemination?

flash8 How is the engine data transmitted?

Does the Engine send data via one of the ARINC buses to a RR decoder/transmitter device in the bay and then to an existing antenna for onward dissemination?


Usually it is through ACARS either via Sat, VHF Data, or HF Data. Maybe this aircraft had its own antenna.

If the new search area is now to the northwest of the Strait of Malacca, into the Andaman Sea, the plane had to change its heading.

The Malaysian authorities stated it was last observed on their radar near Palau Perak a small island, at the top and middle of the Strait, located west northwest of Georgetown on the west coast of Malaysia. Palau Perak is west southwest of the position when the transponder signal was lost. If it did not change its heading, the plane would overfly northern Indonesia, the province of Aceh, devastated by the tsunami.

So if you have engines running, communication link still functioning, and a change in heading.....

White House: Hunt for missing airliner may extend to Indian Ocean - The Washington Post

One senior administration official said the data showing the plane engines running hours after contact was lost came from the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System, or ACARS, a way that planes maintain contact with ground stations through radio or satellite signals. The official said Malaysian authorities shared the flight data with the administration.

Are they suggesting ACARS was operational but the only thing transmitted was engine data? Strange that the airline did not report this.

If the a/c flew to Pulau Perak, then it flew right above Langwaki International Airport. No detection by radar ?

How many runway options are there for a B777 on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands?

re: "And you go to Car Nicobar????"

not at all likely, since India is deploying SAR assets from that airport, Washington Post quote below:

"Indian coast guard and navy aircraft were also pressed into service from a base on the Andaman and Nicobar Islands. A senior Indian official said late Thursday that a total of three ships, two planes and a helicopter have now been dispatched in the growing search effort."

Re-post 2968

There is no access to E&E bay from the flight deck. Two-Thirds of CBs are located in the E&E bay including the Sat Com CBs

But then different airlines different configurations as to location of sat com cbs

No FADEC (at least on Boeing) has it's own downlink capability. Engine data is sent to the airplane over ARINC 429 (in the case of the 777) where other systems (e.g. ACARS) downlink and/or store the data.
Assuming Engine Condition Monitoring reports were actually transmitted, I'd expect them to include altitude, airspeed, and total temp in addition to the actual relevant engine data. Lat and Long would not typically be included in ECM downlink.
Useful data as to the location of the aircraft when the report was transmitted probably not be in the data set itself, but might be obtained from the downlink path (e.g. what station or satellite received the data).