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Originally Posted by tdracer
(Post 8373453)
Correction - Boeing and RR declined to comment on the reports that no data was received. Which is per process - Boeing and RR are effectively under a gag order and will not comment on the investigation.
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Malaysia Airliner Communications Shut Down Separately: US Officials Say - ABC News
"We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean," the senior Pentagon official said. Enough of the secret squirrel stuff. We seem to have several statements from sources that usually are reliable being refuted everytime by the Malaysians leading to this never ending merry-go-round. Now, if the Malaysians are correct, why are these sources intent on providing mis-information? Again, sources that you would normally associate with being reputable. |
Originally Posted by opsmarco
(Post 8373471)
Well, since a lot of people here doesn't seem to understand what's going on regarding the ACARS/SATCOM stories in the press, let's recap what's going on regarding the new information from the US.
- MAS ACARS comms only work thru VHF since they chose not to pay for the extra fee for ACARS SATCOM link - That 777-200 is SATCOM equipped - What was found by US Government services (NSA, or maybe they asked Iridium directly to check the logs) is that, since the a/c ACARS system was out of VHF coverage, the system tried to connect thru SATCOM. But since MAS doesn't have a contract for that, connection was rejected, but remains a trace in their logs. - That means that what they actually found is the log indicating every time the aircraft ACARS system tried to log in thru SATCOM and failed due to the lack of contract for that. Since the ACARS system onboard that specific aircraft tried for 4 hours after its disappearance to connect via SATCOM to the ACARS network, it means the aircraft was, at least, powered on and, since not found anywhere yet, probably flying. It is possible that NSA satellites detected the VHF pings by the ACARS/RR systems, not any attempted satellite pings. Your summary assumes the pings were for satellites rather than VHF ground stations. You may be right, but it seems to make more sense for it to have taken this long because NSA needed to sort through many, many radio events rather than just look at satellite logs. YMMV. |
What really puzzles me its the Myanmar Theory...i've been there, as well some friends presently working based there, and its not anymore the typical "007" country movie with vast jungles full of places where u can build a new rwy, or already use an old one constructed, without being noticed. Even if we can land and stop it in 1300 mts, the handling to support it and after that hidding it among the jungle its not a so easy task, more naive and "Hollywoodesque" than all the rest, me thinks.
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"since the a/c ACARS system was out of VHF coverage, the system tried to connect thru SATCOM"
Are you sure it only tries to ping/connect if out of VHF Range ..? ...I thought I had read that it pings the SATCOM all the time. |
Thanks opsmarco! I trust that is based on practical experience with how ACARS hardware and satcom accounts are handled. If so, it begs another question, how much hardware can survive an ocean impact and still transmit?
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- What was found by US Government services (NSA, or maybe they asked Iridium directly to check the logs) is that, since the a/c ACARS system was out of VHF coverage, the system tried to connect thru SATCOM. But since MAS doesn't have a contract for that, connection was rejected, but remains a trace in their logs. |
too soon to discount foul play
Civil Aviation Chief Azharuddin “There are some things that I can tell you and some things that I can’t.”
Federal CID director Comm Datuk Hadi Ho Abdullah "The police will divulge the latest development in the case at the right time" Minister in the Prime Minister’s Department Datuk Seri Shahidan Kassim confirmed that he will be flying to an undisclosed location “You will have to wait for the official announcement” Unnamed Chinese govt official "Malaysian authorities are deliberately concealing information" > Given evidence emerging of at least two changes of heading after the comms black out and engines running for sometime, it is too early to rule out darker explanations IMV... |
@CommanderCYYZ
What appears to be the case, according to reports, was that ACARS system on the AC was sending RTS pings |
flt001
Not that strange : the same happens if you place an old, inactive sim card in a mobile phone. Your phone will keep trying again and again to connect to the network, despite previous rejections. Same with a router at home, once you resigned your internet connection : machines will try again and again to connect, since the error can be due to a temporary problem in the network.
Regarding specifically the ACARS system, I suppose there's a way, thru maintenance pages, to change that, but only a certified 777 engineer will be able to confirm that. |
I find it very hard to believe that the ACARS system on Malaysia aircraft do not have SAT connectivity.
What is most likely is that MAS does not subscribe (pay) for airframe status monitoring. That requires a lot of bandwidth that they've determined are not worth the extra cost. OOOI/weather/free text are probably all available to the pilots when the ACARS is using the VHF *and* SAT medium. Additionally, the RR health monitoring is probably paid for by RR and/or MAS as part of the purchase/warranty programme and does transmit via satellite, but only when programmed or demanded. Snapshots of engine parameters are taken and sent at pre-programmed intervals or whenever something is out of tolerance. What that programming is is known to the engineers. What the WSJ got wrong was that the Inmarsat network detected "pinging" from the Satcom system itself, not the RR trend monitoring data. |
Many posts ago somebody stated that their cell phone had received three texts welcoming them to a country that the aircraft they were in had transited at FL330
If this occurred it would have required a “handshake” signal exchange between the phone and mobile network operator. I can’t help wondering if those coordinating the SAR effort have considered cross referencing the mobile phone numbers of all on board with every cellular network that flight MH370 could conceivably have over flown? |
FIRESYSOK
MAS officials said that since the question was asked during a press conference (don't remember which one), and that info has been quoted here also (maybe 80-100 pages(!!!) ago...) : They only have ACARS access thru VHF, not thru SATCOM.
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Fuel capaicity
Has there been any disclosure of the fuel uplift on this flight (Max endurance possible)
Assuming centre tanks were selected first, at what point would centre tanks have to have been deselected (before contact was lost or after?) |
How do MAS pilots get weather, etc. enroute when over oceans? Wait for VHF? I find that hard to believe- it's a global airline. If true, it says a lot about the operation in general.
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Re: post 2957 Dual AIMS failure
Systems affected are CMCS(maint computre, faults reporting etc), ACMS & ACMF(processes all engine, air and adiru data, etc and feeds relevant data to their relevant systems ), EICAS and EFIS displays (Left with only basic Standy-by) , 24bit aircraft address, FMCS (Flight management etc) TMCF(thrust management) |
FIRESYSOK
I find it hard to believe too, but I assure you I remember perfectly that info since I thought it was very surprising for such an airline.
And Radio ears, e-mails and internet connection go thru a different system (such as On Air, or the former Connexion by Boeing). |
Seems like a strange way to go about it. Possibly 1000's of plane pining a satellite for no reason & being denied due to lack of contract. Surely it would just be disabled onboard to save wasting resources. |
Search Organisation
It's easy to sit back & be critical of all the various agencies presently involved with the search for the B777, but to me it does appear, the Malaysian Authorities are well out of their depth. There appears to be a division of action & responsibility between both the Military & Civilian sections. Each agency is giving out conflicting information & both seem to be more interested in saving face, I would suggest. We have some senior Malaysian Military Officer totally adorned with ribbons & various insignia, standing up & saying very little indeed, this may well be just waving the Military flag. Civilian spokesmen, of which there are many, also seem to be there, just in order to make their presence know. At this stage, all of the local authorities appear to be running about , but doing little & achieving less. All this demonstrates, that the local agencies in Malayisia, have absolutely no idea of what happened to the missing 777 & where it is. Why not just come out & say this?
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How do MAS pilots get weather, etc. enroute when over oceans? Wait for VHF? I find that hard to believe- it's a global airline. If true, it says a lot about the operation in general. HF ACARS As posted earlier, the nearest F ground station is at Hat Yai (south Thailand). They would also use HF voice comms for weather reports etc. A link to a list of HF aeronautical stations is here: http://www.canairradio.com/hf.html For the region of interest, there are HF ground stations at KL, Singapore, Bangkok etc. |
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