Ryanair to save SNN airport and Irish tourism?

[maxalt]

The Aer Rianta management of SNN airport have just announced forecasts for major job losses at that airport next year as a result of the transatlantic tourism downturn.

They have told the government that the best chance for boosting tourism is to set up a 'low cost operators' terminal in SNN.

Meanwhile Michael O'Leary is having a head to head with the government over his demands to be allowed set up a 'low cost operators' terminal in Dublin so that he can save Irish Tourism in 2002.

It would appear that everyone but O'Leary is beginning to see the need for the facility is in SNN, not in already overcrowded Dublin, and he's being given a clear green light to make the move.

O'Leary has remained silent so far. Most untypical of the man.

I believe his bluff has been well and truly called.

[DW11]

So Ryanair want Aer Rianta to build a low cost terminal at Dublin, where they already have a large operation, which is 5 miles from Dublin has a catchment area of over 1 million and is a favoured European destination for weekend breaks.

Aer Rianta meanwhile would like to build a low cost terminal at Shannon, which is 5 miles from nowhere, has a catchment area of possibly 250,000 and as a European destination is popular with the odd German fishermen, but only during the summer.

Well, it's easy to see which company lives in the real world. Michael O'Leary must be terrified.

[akerosid]

It seems tourism groups are finally noticing the difference between Aer Lingus and Ryanair.

The former can, to its continuing misfortune - hence the Shannon stopover - be told "you're doing x, y, z . . ." and have to put up with it. Ryanair is in a position to tell people to "sod off", as it seems to be doing. It may well be that FR can add more services to SNN, as it's offered to do in the past, but Dublin represents huge opportunities for a low cost carrier.

That said, behind the scenes, one has to wonder if EI is frantically lobbying to prevent FR being allowed to set up a hub at DUB, which would certainly make life extremely difficult in Europe.

Perhaps it's time WW and other senior EI people stood up and started ranting a bit, a la MO'L; after all, having been through quite a few CEOs over the past few years, they're hardly going to sack someone for expressing an opinion?

[PadLock]

When MOL says DUB doesn't he really mean SNN? FR can stil call it Dublin(SNN), it's the same island innit?!!

[airbourne]

BillyFish2,

Nice to see that you hold your country in such high esteem. Maybe you should leave and go to somewhere where theres is lots of bustling activity. Ireland may be rural in parts but not as you have described. Besides, Limerick city is about a 20min drive from SNN. I would agree I would not drive to SNN to get a cheap flight, but dont knock your country. Have you no national pride?

[fionan]

Didn't Ryanair already pull everything out of Shannon 5 or 6 years ago without a second thought. Incidently how does he hope to have a new terminal ready to save Irish tourism by next Summer!!?

It amazes me how many people swallow Mo'L.

[hobie]

I remember being talked into starting a manufacturing operation in shannon some years ago .... everything we made was shipped by air, to as I recall, more than two dozen countries around the world ..... our operation ran 24/7 and had business visitors from all over the world that never failed to praise the operation and its level of sophistication .... I always considered the Irish nation to be united but believe me ..... forget it ..... the hostility between Dublin and anywhere else in the country, when it comes to industrial developement and aviation policy is beyond believe ..... sad really

ps .... the operation is still running flat out some 27 years later and I'm still very proud of it, even if its located in that one horse airport, Shannon, that moved two and a half million passengers last year

[maxalt]

DW11

So Ryanair want Aer Rianta to build a low cost terminal at Dublin, where they already have a large operation, which is 5 miles from Dublin has a catchment area of over 1 million and is a favoured European destination for weekend breaks.

BillyFish2

SNN is in the arse-end of nowhere. The nearest town is a one horse town without the horse. It takes 2.5 hours on a very fast motorbike to get to Dublin, not that I would ever consider breaking the speed limit...

The arse-end of nowhere that you so eloquently refer to is the very region that needs the tourists. Kerry being a prime example, in that it lives almost entirely on the tourist trade and it's unspoiled state is the main attraction to the place.

You two gentlemen are as thick as pig **** if you think O'Leary has the least bit of an interest in Irish tourism.

Maybe he should say...'Irish Tourism....but only if it's in Dublin, and arrives via Ryanair'.

There's another aspect to this whole debate that's been ignored, and it is this.
Given the history of corruption between politics and business in this country, why the hell would we favour giving control of a national resource (like our airports) over to a selfish and ruthless business man like O'Leary?

I might be accused of having certain prejudices against him...true...but I don't care if it's him or the pope of Rome...no businessman should ever be given the kind of monopolistic and unfettered franchise to assetts belonging to Irish taxpayers (of which I am one).

[Tarek Nor]

Billyfish2

QUOTE
For those of you not familiar with Ireland, outside of Dublin and Cork, there is virtually no one living there. We have a handful of tiny regional airports serviced by 4 ATR-42's. It's not exactly bustling folks.
UNQUOTE

Waterford seems to be bustling enough to
support 10 flights a week from LTN, and 2
soon to be 3 flights a week from LPL with
our (Euroceltic) Fokker 27's.

[Ireland's Call]

What's your beef maxalt? Are you living in some kind of socialist fantasy land where the free market and businessmen like M'OL are decreed to be almost Satanic?

If a business can operate in the commercial world without any aid or interference from their government, pumping a substantial amount of money into the economy should we not applaud them?

Government ownership does not work Maxalt, surely everyone realises that now.

[DW11]

Maxalt,

Never said and don't believe that O'Leary cares in the slightest about Irish Tourism. What he does care about is Ryanair's profits. This sensibly leads him to the conclusion that the best place for a low cost hub in Ireland is Dublin.

Aer Rianta also don't care in the slightest about Irish Tourism. What they care about is the future of their little empires and ultimately saving their own necks.

Now lets have a look at the possible reasons behind Aer Rianta's proposal.

Shannon:
Lot's of land available at little or no cost. Construction will have little or no impact on current services. Development may stifle future growth at Cork (past hobby of Aer Rianta) and Galway (not run by Aer Rianta, so couldn't give a damn).

Dublin:
Land is at a premium with green field locations in private hands. Expect local opposition to airport expansion. Airfield is already congested and lacking in aircraft stands. Construction will have sizeable impact on current operations. Development will have little or no impact on Cork, Shannon or Galway.

Now, tell me that developing Shannon is in the interest of Irish Tourism and not just because it's a damn sight less hassle for Aer Rianta.


On corruption between politics and business, have you missed the staring rolls of CIE, Dublin Corporation and the Blood Transfusion Service at the tribunals. Private companies may rip us off but they'll never do it with such style and utter contempt as our government controlled bodies. They also won't kill members of the public and get away with it, but then that's the Ireland
we all love so much, isn't it.

[maxalt]

You two heroes are completely forgetting something. It wasn't I who invented the line about O'Leary saving Irish Tourism. He plastered it all over the national newspapers when announcing his new base in the backwoods of western Germany.
So don't get so defensive of his bona fides. He has none, as you've pointed out, thereby confirming his expensive propaganda campaign to be the pack of lies that it is.

As to the style and contempt you refer to DW11, O'Leary has contempt and righteous indignation down to a fine art. He showed utter contempt for the many people about to lose their jobs in Aer Lingus.
I think you're making a glaring miscalculation if you believe you can compare the incompetence of certain state agencies with the sleaze and corruption of our politicians and so called 'businessmen'. The fact that you're prepared to draw a parallel at all just goes to show how twisted Irish society has become.

I'll tell you one thing. The only way O'Leary will get his free run is over the dead body of Fianna Fail.

If that makes me a socialist, then I'm proud to be called one. But I'd rather be called a Republican Nationalist.

[maxalt]

I'm no Fianna Fail lacky. No political party in the Republic of Ireland has the slightest bit of interest for me. I'll be voting SF. Gerry will soon sort the ******s out.

As for O'Leary being 'good fun'. Tell that to the two pilots he summarily sacked this year, and to the wannabes who have to pay to get their application read. He's an unmitigated arsehole.

(By the way, it's not jusat a persona he adopts for the media...he's just the same in real life.)

[DW11]

Maxalt,

Nobody said that you invented O'Leary's words about Irish Tourism, But you do seem to infer that I believe them "You two gentlemen are as thick as pig **** if you think O'Leary has the least bit of an interest in Irish tourism".

"I think you're making a glaring miscalculation if you believe you can compare the incompetence of certain state agencies with the sleaze and corruption of our politicians and so called 'businessmen'. The fact that you're prepared to draw a parallel at all just goes to show how twisted Irish society has become".

The Blood transfusion service provided people in this country with blood products that killed them. They then tried to cover this up and when found out pass the blame off on someone who had since died. If this is run of the mill for you, then I don't think it is Irish society that has become twisted.

Now back to the original point:

"It would appear that everyone but O'Leary is beginning to see the need for the facility is in SNN, not in already overcrowded Dublin, and he's being given a clear green light to make the move"

Who exactly apart from Aer Rianta and you, agrees with this statement.

[kippa]

When I read this headline I was sure the punchline had to be ...AND THE UNIVERSE..

Pass the kryptonite.... New uniform standard..underpants to be worn outside trousers. OR ELSE...summary dismissal..

[flypastpastfast]

What utter bollocks from ryanair. What a guy MOL is, I mean what a guy. Quoted by reuters as saying "they don't call me santie for nothing" in relation to his free flights promo.

People at Dublin would do well not to panic. Aviation across EU and US will pick up again in a few months. To go down the road of Ryanair calling all the shots would produce short term gains with serious long term losses. Rather like selling your soul to the devil. Budget airlines realise the market will pick up again, and so also realise they must shout long and hard as quickly as possible to get what they want before their nonsense about 'only budget airlines can work' gets blown out of the water.

The Irish government would be wise and right to do all it can to ensure air lingus survives. In a few months this will all be a thing of the past.

[maxalt]

DW11, incompetence, cover ups and heartlessness in the medical profession are unforgiveable, and not much different from the bottomless greed for money and power demonstrated in the daily revelations about our business people and politicians, all made public since the fall from grace of C.J. Haughey. But would you give the blood transfusion service a blank cheque to repeat the behaviour in future? Public accountability is needed. That goes for business as well.

You assert that my views on the SNN termninal are only my opinion (and Aer Riantas). Well no actually. The Sunday Tribune business section led with a full page article last wek by Brian Carey in which he made a lucid and fact based assesment of where the true need for low cost capacity was in this country. He came down firmly on the side of SNN.

BillyFish,

Would that be with intimidation, knee capping or just a plain old car bomb?

None of the above is the answer. Like him or not, the man has more integrity in his little finger than the whole gang in the Dail put together (witness the recent shenanigans by Gildea and Owen).

[maxalt]

Here's the article I referred to;

Sunday Tribune (Irish) Business Section,
25th November 2001,
Brian Carey (Auth),

With O'Leary now on the cusp of securing the deal of his business life, a 10-year low-charges agreement at the most important airport in his universe, it is worth examining just how beneficial O'Leary and Ryanair will be for Irish tourism. Is the deal going to be good for Michael or good for tourism? Are the two the same? And most importantly is Aer Rianta and its chairman Noel Hanlon about to roll over and let O'Leary charge triumphantly into Dublin Airport?
The answer to the final question is a resounding "no". The airport authority will this week entertain the government's expert committee on the response of the tourism industry to the 11th September. It will spell out a few home truths.

First off, if Aer Rianta offers Ryanair landing charges at £1 skull for 10 years, it must do the same for other carriers. That means Aer Rianta's income from aeronautical charges will be £14M next year. The company's rates and insurance bill next year will be £16M Its interest bill is almost £18m.

By law. Aer Rianta has a commercial mandate. It also has bond-holders owed EU250M and owes a further EU100M to the European Investment Bank. The new low charge regime will put the company into losses, threatening a default on its bonds. Does the government want another struggling semi-state in north county Dublin?

A new "pier" is not a new terminal, it is Just a spur off an existing terminal, Aer Rianta charges are broken down on the basis of landing fees road access and security. Passengers trundling to the new pier would use the same road access to the airport, the same runways for takeoff and landing, and the same security. For all that, the airports regulator reckons airlines should be charged £4.41 a passenger. So how can the airport charge £1 a passenger to Ryanair's customers? It is understood that regulator Bill Prasifka examined the idea of setting up a low-cost pier at Dublin, The expert committee might ring Prasifka for his view.

The coup de race will cut atraight to the chase and might go something like this: "Yes, we will offer a £1 a skull landing charge. Yes we will offer a lO year deal. We will even throw in some marketing support and cut-price office accommodation. But we will not offer it in Dublin at a pier constructed by you, we will offer It in Shannon".

Shannon is almost as far from Dublin as Ryanair's new European hub, Hahn, is from Frankfurt. And, interestingly the owner of Frankfurt Airport is a 73% shareholder in Hahn, yet there was no cut price deal on offer to Ryanair at the main airport.

But this is all about tourism.

Which part of the country Is suffering most from the drop off in the transatlantic traffic? The west.
Which part of the country would benefit from a new "low cost airport" at Shannon?
The west.
And which airport will be wiped off the map if the EU finally declares open skies across the Atlantic and hence desperately needs to develop new routes?
Shannon.

The move will represent a major departure in airport policy It will be aimed at incentivising traffic into Shannon, an airport currently operating at under one-third of its capacity But most importantly the move would not just be a knee jerk reaction to events of 11 September. The new Pier D at Dublin will not be constructed until 2003, so where is the great deal for Irish tourism in its hour of need?
O'Leary is offering new routes from Shannon as a barter for his new pier but that hardly represent a proactive policy for the western airport.
It would benefit all airlines, not just low fares, not just Ryanair.

If Aer Rianta wants to play dirty it can always highlight the current situation with Go. Chief executive Barbara Cassani told the Financial Times that the airline was considering pulling off at least one of Its Dublin routes, The reason: the aggressive response from Ryanair to its arrival. The Irish airline also saw off Virgin Express from Shannon.
O'Leary told this newspaper in September that he would not stand for any operator coming Into Ireland and "trying to eat our lunch". Are these the actions of a man who has the best interests of Irish tourism at heart, rather than that of Ryanair?

O'Leary wants a long term low charge deal at Dublin, the same as he has at Beauvais, Charleroi and Hahn. Aer Rianta says Dublin is an international airport, not a dressed-up former military field, and one third of all passengers going through Dublin are business passengers who expect better facilities (even if they don't get them). It has a role to play in tourism development but that is not its function.

O'Leary's best defence is that Ryanair will deliver. It always has and it is now emerging as one of the most powerful forces in european aviation. Aer Rianta should have developed Shannon as a low-cost hub yearsago. But it didn't. It was far more interested in over-spending on facilities in Dublin, engaging in retail development rather than airport management.

Does the government want Michael O'Leary to become the most powerful man in Irish tourism? Equally, can it rely on Aer Rianta to provide a service that will really tempt tourists and really develop Shannon as a stand-on-its-own-two-feet airport?

Questions, questions.

[The Guvnor]

Ummmmm, why on earth would anyone want to build a low cost terminal in SNN (nearest city, well medium sized town = Limerick aka Stab City, with a regional population of ca 200k) when they could be in Dublin (nearest city Dublin, very popular with the Euros as a weekend break destination, regional population well over 1m).

You need to be careful here, maxalt - I thought that the whole point of the Celtic Tiger economy was to prove that all those jokes about Irishmen were completely false?

Incidentally, as a Republican Nationalist, does that put you in the same box as Eamon DeValera - who probably did more to destroy the Irish economy since King William; and who oversaw the deaths of true Irishmen? Thought so...

[maxalt]

So now the Guv is an expert on Irish history too?

Is there no limit to the mans(?) intellect?

Guv, the subject is not Irish history but SNN airport. Stick to the subject.

Your argument about SNNs remoteness from seems hilarious to me when you are talking about the same operator which delivers passengers into Hahn and calls it Frankfurt.

Your classification of Limerick as a backwater yet again ignores the point, which was that MO'L is going to save Irish tourism (he says) and that the vast majority of Irelands tourist infrastructure is based within 50 to 100 miles of SNN airport.

Anyhow, the Ryans would be familiar with Limerick...that's where they started. Are you forgetting GPA is based there? The worlds biggest a/c leasing company in recent times.

Billyfish, all that you proved there is you like typing a lot.

The excellent points made in the Tribune article are not referred to in your post, let alone countered.

A poor attempt at a side step.