Ryanair to save SNN airport and Irish tourism?
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BillyFish2
Do you remember how he did that. The government bailed him out! That same government now refuse to aid in any fashion a company they have brought to its knees and which they own on behalf of Ireland.
The individual members of this government obviously feel they have served their time. They are now feathering their nests. I wonder how many will be Fr directors within 5 Years. ( O'Rourke obviously won't! ). My money is on Harney!
I think I would defend MOL's right to turn what was an ailing airline into the success story it is today
The individual members of this government obviously feel they have served their time. They are now feathering their nests. I wonder how many will be Fr directors within 5 Years. ( O'Rourke obviously won't! ). My money is on Harney!
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Maxalt, Please read the following two statements, both made by you earlier in the thread. I presume we can now forget this part of the thread as it seems you have changed your mind.
"I think you're making a glaring miscalculation if you believe you can compare the incompetence of certain state agencies with the sleaze and corruption of our politicians and so called 'businessmen'. The fact that you're prepared to draw a parallel at all just goes to show how twisted Irish society has become."
"incompetence, cover ups and heartlessness in the medical profession are unforgiveable, and not much different from the bottomless greed for money and power demonstrated in the daily revelations about our business people and politicians, all made public since the fall from grace of C.J. Haughey."
Sunday Tribune Article:
Badly written article which voices lots of opinions but offers and justifies very little. Mr Carey seems to be first and foremost interested in having a go at Michael O'Leary. If a low cost terminal at Shannon is a way of annoying O'Leary then that will do nicely. What Mr Carey doesn't tell us is who is going to operate to his new low cost Shannon and where they are going to get the passengers from, presumably he deals in opinions and not reality.
More and more this seems to be a case of not doing what Michael O'Leary wants, even if it does make sense. Aer Rianta's plan for Shannon is farcical and is obviously a knee jerk reaction to government pressure for a low cost operation at Dublin.
Maybe Aer Rianta might get a better idea of what to do if the asked their largest customer, the paying public. But then again Aer Rianta have been treating their customers like cattle(to be herded and milked at will) for more than a generation, so why should they change now.
Hopefully sense will prevail and the terminal/extension at Dublin will be built. If not let us hope that Aer Rianta do nothing and save us the cost of more unused facilities at Shannon. If the need to get one over on O'Leary is too much to resist, might I recommend a CPO for his land in Mullingar and the building of a waste incinerator. A viable business and a severly annoyed O'Leary in one go, what more could you want.
And for the Guv:
We were born here, we live here and we know about Irish history. Dropping in quotes about DeValera and the Dail(which you can't spell) every time Ireland is mentioned on a forum does not ingratiate you with anyone and only proves your ignorance. Your comments about Shannon and your frequent remarks on the viability of transatlantic services from Ireland also prove your stupidity. Less than two years ago you regaled us with your plans for L1011 services from Shannon to the US, now you tell us that direct transatlantic services from Ireland are permanently non-viable and we should all travel via Manchester or London. We are not fools, please do not treat us as such.
"I think you're making a glaring miscalculation if you believe you can compare the incompetence of certain state agencies with the sleaze and corruption of our politicians and so called 'businessmen'. The fact that you're prepared to draw a parallel at all just goes to show how twisted Irish society has become."
"incompetence, cover ups and heartlessness in the medical profession are unforgiveable, and not much different from the bottomless greed for money and power demonstrated in the daily revelations about our business people and politicians, all made public since the fall from grace of C.J. Haughey."
Sunday Tribune Article:
Badly written article which voices lots of opinions but offers and justifies very little. Mr Carey seems to be first and foremost interested in having a go at Michael O'Leary. If a low cost terminal at Shannon is a way of annoying O'Leary then that will do nicely. What Mr Carey doesn't tell us is who is going to operate to his new low cost Shannon and where they are going to get the passengers from, presumably he deals in opinions and not reality.
More and more this seems to be a case of not doing what Michael O'Leary wants, even if it does make sense. Aer Rianta's plan for Shannon is farcical and is obviously a knee jerk reaction to government pressure for a low cost operation at Dublin.
Maybe Aer Rianta might get a better idea of what to do if the asked their largest customer, the paying public. But then again Aer Rianta have been treating their customers like cattle(to be herded and milked at will) for more than a generation, so why should they change now.
Hopefully sense will prevail and the terminal/extension at Dublin will be built. If not let us hope that Aer Rianta do nothing and save us the cost of more unused facilities at Shannon. If the need to get one over on O'Leary is too much to resist, might I recommend a CPO for his land in Mullingar and the building of a waste incinerator. A viable business and a severly annoyed O'Leary in one go, what more could you want.
And for the Guv:
We were born here, we live here and we know about Irish history. Dropping in quotes about DeValera and the Dail(which you can't spell) every time Ireland is mentioned on a forum does not ingratiate you with anyone and only proves your ignorance. Your comments about Shannon and your frequent remarks on the viability of transatlantic services from Ireland also prove your stupidity. Less than two years ago you regaled us with your plans for L1011 services from Shannon to the US, now you tell us that direct transatlantic services from Ireland are permanently non-viable and we should all travel via Manchester or London. We are not fools, please do not treat us as such.
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Perhaps you lot ought to recognise that MO'L is answerable to one group and one group only - and that's his shareholders.
Latest news from FR:
Now, instead of whinging about people should (or shouldn't) be doing and what is (or isn't) viable, why don't you try and set up your own airlines if you reckon it's so easy?
Oh, and DW11 - the primary reason we looked at SNN was to allow our pax to preclear US INS and Customs. If we had used the Aer Turas AOC (as was planned back then) we would have had problems with the scheduled rights - the Americans were already unhappy with the status quo; and if we used a UK AOC then we probably wouldn't be able to get traffic rights. Either way, there would have been few extra pax out of the SNN area.
Latest news from FR:
The Directors of Ryanair Holdings plc have announced that they will be sub-dividing the company's ordinary shares of EUR0.0254 (1.6p) into ordinary shares of EUR0.0127. The move, approved by shareholders at Ryanair's Annual General Meeting on 25th September, is intended to increase the liquidity and marketability of the stock by reducing the absolute price per share, according to Capita Corporate Registrars Plc. Following the stock split this coming Friday, shareholders will own two ordinary shares for each one share they previously owned. Ryanair's authorised ordinary share capital prior to the split will be EUR10,668,000 divided into 420,000,000 ordinary shares of EUR0.0254 each, and its issued ordinary share capital will be EUR9,198,814.3 divided into 362,659,884 ordinary shares of EUR0.0254 each.
Oh, and DW11 - the primary reason we looked at SNN was to allow our pax to preclear US INS and Customs. If we had used the Aer Turas AOC (as was planned back then) we would have had problems with the scheduled rights - the Americans were already unhappy with the status quo; and if we used a UK AOC then we probably wouldn't be able to get traffic rights. Either way, there would have been few extra pax out of the SNN area.
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Guv,
Now that we have apparently become a "lot" as you so kindly put it, might I be bold enough to point out that we are all aware of who Michael O'Leary should and should not be answerable to, but thank you for explaining in such detail.
"Now, instead of whinging about people should (or shouldn't) be doing and what is (or isn't) viable, why don't you try and set up your own airlines if you reckon it's so easy? "
Did someone upset, you poor little soul. Just in case you hadn't noticed, the thread isn't about the difficulties of starting your own airline, it's about a low cost terminal/pier in Ireland. Now if you would like a thread called "It's hard to start your own airline" I'm sure you will have everyone's blessing and we will all treat you with the respect you have earned and fully deserve. Or better still how about a "Me and my pretendy airline" book, complete with pop-up Tristars and a foldout runway.
As for Shannon being only for a few extra pax, I seem to remember one version(of your many versions) of your business plan, in which SNN pax were the key to your Boston (PSM)route. But of course, now that you have deemed Ireland is no longer viable for any transatlantic routes this is all rather academic. Does this also mean that Prestwick was never viable also, or will the UK government insist that Irish people
be only allowed to travel via Manchester and London when our direct flights end.
God bless
Now that we have apparently become a "lot" as you so kindly put it, might I be bold enough to point out that we are all aware of who Michael O'Leary should and should not be answerable to, but thank you for explaining in such detail.
"Now, instead of whinging about people should (or shouldn't) be doing and what is (or isn't) viable, why don't you try and set up your own airlines if you reckon it's so easy? "
Did someone upset, you poor little soul. Just in case you hadn't noticed, the thread isn't about the difficulties of starting your own airline, it's about a low cost terminal/pier in Ireland. Now if you would like a thread called "It's hard to start your own airline" I'm sure you will have everyone's blessing and we will all treat you with the respect you have earned and fully deserve. Or better still how about a "Me and my pretendy airline" book, complete with pop-up Tristars and a foldout runway.
As for Shannon being only for a few extra pax, I seem to remember one version(of your many versions) of your business plan, in which SNN pax were the key to your Boston (PSM)route. But of course, now that you have deemed Ireland is no longer viable for any transatlantic routes this is all rather academic. Does this also mean that Prestwick was never viable also, or will the UK government insist that Irish people
be only allowed to travel via Manchester and London when our direct flights end.
God bless
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Getting bored now.
We can go round in circles like this for days but I think the point of the thread is well enough made...O'Leary is not interested in saving Irish Tourism, rather just saving himself a few quid and the headache of dealing with Aer Rianta.
Of course no private terminal is going to be built in SNN. But neither will it be built in Dublin.
The reason?
Simple economics and realpolitik.
Aer Rianta would become another basket case overnight. And the same people bitching about the cost of bailing out Aer Lingus will be asked to bail out Aer Rianta too.
I mean of course, the taxpayers.
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
We can go round in circles like this for days but I think the point of the thread is well enough made...O'Leary is not interested in saving Irish Tourism, rather just saving himself a few quid and the headache of dealing with Aer Rianta.
Of course no private terminal is going to be built in SNN. But neither will it be built in Dublin.
The reason?
Simple economics and realpolitik.
Aer Rianta would become another basket case overnight. And the same people bitching about the cost of bailing out Aer Lingus will be asked to bail out Aer Rianta too.
I mean of course, the taxpayers.
[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: maxalt ]
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Why would Aer Rianta become a basket case overnight; yes it would have to slim down and run a lot faster to keep its traffic and attract new traffic, but the cost of new facilities, such as runways and taxiways would also be shared. COMPETITION!
Every company moans about the onset of competition and gives dire warnings, but in the end, it may well be to the benefit of the company. It needs slimming down and it needs to have some kind of incentive to sharpen itself out. Nothing - not government prodding or the aviation regulator's finger wagging - is going to do this better than competition.
Whatever about the effects of competition, AR will have to live with it; the effects on the economy will be two airport operators competing and marketing Dublin and Ireland right around the world. AR can moan all it likes, but this will come and like every other monopoly, it will have to deal with it.
Every company moans about the onset of competition and gives dire warnings, but in the end, it may well be to the benefit of the company. It needs slimming down and it needs to have some kind of incentive to sharpen itself out. Nothing - not government prodding or the aviation regulator's finger wagging - is going to do this better than competition.
Whatever about the effects of competition, AR will have to live with it; the effects on the economy will be two airport operators competing and marketing Dublin and Ireland right around the world. AR can moan all it likes, but this will come and like every other monopoly, it will have to deal with it.
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Aeroskid the problem with competition is that it never quite meets the pure definition of the word in Ireland. In the early nineties the then government decided to have a 'Two airline policy'. This involved handicapping the ( admittedly ) monopoly and giving the ailing company the breaks ( yes Fr ).
Given the state now of those two companies it is difficult to understand that the gov. still employ the same strategy. If I was CEO of AR I would resist any change in status. The government are guaranteed their perks from the state outfits but they have to earn them from private companies. Ask Esat.
The Snn terminal is a non-runner. However it is both a good and bad sign. Good because for the first time in this writers lifetime Snn AR are actively trying to lure their own business rather than manpulating the Gov. to strangle AL by the Snn stop-over. Bad because it shows they anticipate trouble ahead, ( ie AL ) they see a government with no interest in regaining power and now have washed their hands of the mess they have made of AL.
MO'L sees an opportunity. Fair play to him but it won't happen either. Dub can't cope with the numbers it has, Ireland will suffer if Fr herd another couple of million through the sty they call a terminal. The C or J class passenger will not return if treated like sh*t. We will all suffer ( except of course O'L ).
Given the state now of those two companies it is difficult to understand that the gov. still employ the same strategy. If I was CEO of AR I would resist any change in status. The government are guaranteed their perks from the state outfits but they have to earn them from private companies. Ask Esat.
The Snn terminal is a non-runner. However it is both a good and bad sign. Good because for the first time in this writers lifetime Snn AR are actively trying to lure their own business rather than manpulating the Gov. to strangle AL by the Snn stop-over. Bad because it shows they anticipate trouble ahead, ( ie AL ) they see a government with no interest in regaining power and now have washed their hands of the mess they have made of AL.
MO'L sees an opportunity. Fair play to him but it won't happen either. Dub can't cope with the numbers it has, Ireland will suffer if Fr herd another couple of million through the sty they call a terminal. The C or J class passenger will not return if treated like sh*t. We will all suffer ( except of course O'L ).
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Gentlemen Gentlemen!You are in danger of getting the whole dang thing totally mixed up. Hub ? all this talk of low cost hub!. What hub? The Ryanair "Hub " is not a hub at all and to my knowledge they do not operate hubs. They operate point to point traffic.The principle of a hub is that you have a kind of seamless transfer incl ticketing and baggage on to another flight be it your own or another carriers flight. Ryanair will not even allow you to transfer to another of their own flights, without collecting your luggage and re checking it in . Neither will they onward check you in say DUB/STD/Hahn even with only hand baggage.
DW11 you talk about Aer Rianta going to build a"low cost terminal" at shannon.They have never said this to my knowledge.There is no need, there already IS a low cost terminal there with a capacity to handle at least another 3m pax, and a four year offer of NO CHARGES whatsoever for any airline who wishes to start up new routes.
IRELAND'S CALL , you talked about the success of Ryanair with no aid from the state. That is not correct but I won't go into that here ...best left to the Tribunals.However, how can you square such a view with MoL's proposal for Dublin which in effect means massive state aid.(at the same time he bad mouths Aer Lingus over state aid and threatned them with court action.).Mo'L wants a charge of £1 per pax to cover all charges incl IAA navigation charges for at least 10years. The Aviation Regulator in his determination, found economic justification for £4:41 per pax at Dublin.Therefore in effect Ryanair are looking for a state subsidy of £3:41 per pax from the Irish taxpayer.This to an airline which is the most profitable in the world.
Akerosid, you talk of competition. Explain how this would work at Dublin Airport if Pier D was built and operated by a third party and show where this formula(competing piers or indeed terminals terminals )works elswhere.
It seems to me that Aer Rianta could be on the right track politically. Look at it this way. Entice a low cost operator(s) to shannon ,local politicos are happy as pigs in etc. Local politicos in Dublin are delerious as this could stall further development at Dublin airport and mean that the second runway might not be built.This is a huge issue for them with the local residents.
Akerosid, you talk of competition, could you explain how this would happen if PierD was built and operated by a third party at Dub.You might also show where this formula (competing pier/terminals )works at other airports.
DW11 you talk about Aer Rianta going to build a"low cost terminal" at shannon.They have never said this to my knowledge.There is no need, there already IS a low cost terminal there with a capacity to handle at least another 3m pax, and a four year offer of NO CHARGES whatsoever for any airline who wishes to start up new routes.
IRELAND'S CALL , you talked about the success of Ryanair with no aid from the state. That is not correct but I won't go into that here ...best left to the Tribunals.However, how can you square such a view with MoL's proposal for Dublin which in effect means massive state aid.(at the same time he bad mouths Aer Lingus over state aid and threatned them with court action.).Mo'L wants a charge of £1 per pax to cover all charges incl IAA navigation charges for at least 10years. The Aviation Regulator in his determination, found economic justification for £4:41 per pax at Dublin.Therefore in effect Ryanair are looking for a state subsidy of £3:41 per pax from the Irish taxpayer.This to an airline which is the most profitable in the world.
Akerosid, you talk of competition. Explain how this would work at Dublin Airport if Pier D was built and operated by a third party and show where this formula(competing piers or indeed terminals terminals )works elswhere.
It seems to me that Aer Rianta could be on the right track politically. Look at it this way. Entice a low cost operator(s) to shannon ,local politicos are happy as pigs in etc. Local politicos in Dublin are delerious as this could stall further development at Dublin airport and mean that the second runway might not be built.This is a huge issue for them with the local residents.
Akerosid, you talk of competition, could you explain how this would happen if PierD was built and operated by a third party at Dub.You might also show where this formula (competing pier/terminals )works at other airports.
