AAI losing pilots
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 36
Likes: 6
From: Greece
Atlanta Bashers
I find it quite irritating to see pilots bash Atlanta, their maintenance is as good as most of the operators I have worked for and I considered it better than that of a major that I was previously worked for.
I was out of work for nine months and Atlanta gave me a start for the European summer. I have now moved on, but I have good memories of my time there and am extremely grateful for the opportunity that they provided me.
The Company exists because of its flexibility and they do not pretend otherwise or for that matter tell you anything different. To those still there on the 767 I hope the summer is an enjoyable one.
I was out of work for nine months and Atlanta gave me a start for the European summer. I have now moved on, but I have good memories of my time there and am extremely grateful for the opportunity that they provided me.
The Company exists because of its flexibility and they do not pretend otherwise or for that matter tell you anything different. To those still there on the 767 I hope the summer is an enjoyable one.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
From: UK
B_B You say you worked for AAI for the European summer, presumably the Excel contract? Did you declare your earnings to the UK Inland Revenue I wonder??? As this was a 6 month contract you should be paying tax and the only way AAI get these kind of contracts paying crass salaries to their Pilots is because they pay them in US$ offshore knowing that it is not being declared. This is unfair competition under EU rules.
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
From: lgw
MillersC,
If Bob Bowne is his real name he is not one of the 120 or so pilots who have passed through the Excel contract in the last 18 months.
And I'm sure as a responsible pilot he would have paid tax if he had....
C
If Bob Bowne is his real name he is not one of the 120 or so pilots who have passed through the Excel contract in the last 18 months.
And I'm sure as a responsible pilot he would have paid tax if he had....
C
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: uk
hey Miller
what are you jumping all over the guy for? have you ever heard the term
"reciprocol agreement" ?
how do you know he does`nt pay taxes in his home country, which may just as easily have such an agreement, making him completely legal.
Oh, yes I remember now, all those British pilots I see working all over the world must be faultlessly honest about taxes, yes, thats why they always seem to have that halo and holier than thou glow about them!
what are you jumping all over the guy for? have you ever heard the term
"reciprocol agreement" ?
how do you know he does`nt pay taxes in his home country, which may just as easily have such an agreement, making him completely legal.
Oh, yes I remember now, all those British pilots I see working all over the world must be faultlessly honest about taxes, yes, thats why they always seem to have that halo and holier than thou glow about them!
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
From: UK
Canadair You don,t know what you are talking about with regard to double taxation agreements between UK and many countries.
What this means is that in B_B,s case as he was working in UK he should pay taxes there and if there is a double taxation agreement between UK and his country then he will not be taxed twice.That is the way it works and not as you suggest.
As for your comments re British Pilots working overseas then provided they are employed overseas they are not liable to UK tax but of course pay tax in the country of their employment. If they work in a country in the Middle East that has no tax then that is an advantage available to all,but of course in reality those airlines pay less in the first place because there is no tax so you are no better off.
Not a question of Halo,s at all
What this means is that in B_B,s case as he was working in UK he should pay taxes there and if there is a double taxation agreement between UK and his country then he will not be taxed twice.That is the way it works and not as you suggest.
As for your comments re British Pilots working overseas then provided they are employed overseas they are not liable to UK tax but of course pay tax in the country of their employment. If they work in a country in the Middle East that has no tax then that is an advantage available to all,but of course in reality those airlines pay less in the first place because there is no tax so you are no better off.
Not a question of Halo,s at all
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: dunundah
Indeed losing pilots!!!
The grim reeper of normal lifestyle is indeed losing a huge chunk of its pilots these days. In the coming month or so about 10-12 guys will be leaving for the simple reason that they are unable to maintain a normal family life, and well also because another more generous operator is offering them that normal family life.
10-12 pilots from an outfit that is so seriously short of flight crews, that it is barely able to run the show, could ground a couple of aircraft for quite a while. AAI is also running very late in training pilots for the summer, it makes one wonder if it is worth for a company to treat its employees like dirt?!?!
10-12 pilots from an outfit that is so seriously short of flight crews, that it is barely able to run the show, could ground a couple of aircraft for quite a while. AAI is also running very late in training pilots for the summer, it makes one wonder if it is worth for a company to treat its employees like dirt?!?!
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: uk
No Miller, sorry mate, you are wrong, if you are willing to sift through the tax issues, as well elicit the services of a good expat oriented tax accountant, and can track your days abroad, then you can indeed live one place, and pay tax in another, which may be more desirable in terms of the paid amount, IE the UK, and Canada, you can pay it in Canada, on your declared income, but be flying out of the UK, of course the ability of residence in the UK is essential.
But what took issue with in your post was the assumption that if a fellow is working for AAi then he "must" be dodging taxes
well I guess that means all the UK based pilots and engineers with AAI are all diligently paying those same taxes, They would never claim to be "retired" would they???
Wake up, this is not a foreign issue, the British are just as likely to manuever around the taxes if possible as anyone else.
But what took issue with in your post was the assumption that if a fellow is working for AAi then he "must" be dodging taxes
well I guess that means all the UK based pilots and engineers with AAI are all diligently paying those same taxes, They would never claim to be "retired" would they???
Wake up, this is not a foreign issue, the British are just as likely to manuever around the taxes if possible as anyone else.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: USA
We should all forget about the tax issue, thats up to each individual employee to satisfy their governments requirement.
What about contracts?
Should they not be followed as each is a binding aggreement between 2 individuals that would be held up in any country or court.
This company has untold of breaches in paying crewmembers as per contract terms. Outside agencies included.
When confronted with these issues the outside agencies claim that Air Atlanta will not pay them so they cannot pay us, Days off due etc. This should be the outside companys loss if they cannot collect from Air Atlanta!
Ground engineering here is excellent, much improved and can be compared to any major carrier.
Contract adherence leaves alot to be desired. Outside agencies in paticular.
Why have a contract if it is increasingly questioned?
What about contracts?
Should they not be followed as each is a binding aggreement between 2 individuals that would be held up in any country or court.
This company has untold of breaches in paying crewmembers as per contract terms. Outside agencies included.
When confronted with these issues the outside agencies claim that Air Atlanta will not pay them so they cannot pay us, Days off due etc. This should be the outside companys loss if they cannot collect from Air Atlanta!
Ground engineering here is excellent, much improved and can be compared to any major carrier.
Contract adherence leaves alot to be desired. Outside agencies in paticular.
Why have a contract if it is increasingly questioned?
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 846
Likes: 0
From: UK
Canadair If anyone is paying tax on what AAI are paying then it would not be worth turning up to work!!
Sure you can live in one place and pay tax elsewhere but where you work is where you pay the tax,hence the double taxation agreement.I don't know about Canadian tax rules which may be different.
Sure you can live in one place and pay tax elsewhere but where you work is where you pay the tax,hence the double taxation agreement.I don't know about Canadian tax rules which may be different.
Joined: Oct 1998
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: uk
"I don't know about Canadian tax rules which may be different"
no, you obviously do not, but you still felt the need to pontificate about same, regardless.
Oh, and by the way, congratulations on insulting 400 plus pilots and engineers regards their jobs and salary in one go!
does that make you feel better about your job?
no, you obviously do not, but you still felt the need to pontificate about same, regardless.
Oh, and by the way, congratulations on insulting 400 plus pilots and engineers regards their jobs and salary in one go!
does that make you feel better about your job?
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: Bangkok
**** It's about time Air Atlanta Gets a taste of it's own medicine *****
Air Atlanta has been taking advantage of pilots for years, and I doubt that will ever change. It all has to do with inbreeding. 
The starting pay at Air Atlanta is the same now as it was 5 years ago. Having worked for them on several occasions on both the 747 and 767 I have seen personally the double standard that exists there. Air Atlanta is a stepping stone for those who wish to use them as such, and is also a place to hang out for those who wish to fly now and then and make more than one could changing oil at the local garage.
The double standard exists whereas the Icelandic Union pilots work 3 weeks on followed by 3 weeks off with salary. Plus perdiem during the 3 weeks on.
The have nots,, that being everyone else works 3 months on with a whole 8 block days to go home. And also 8 whole days off per month as well. Sometimes there were more days off during the month, but sometimes they rostered you to work 22 out of 30 days.
Starting salary for a F/O 5 years ago was $5,500 a month, it is the same now. And, no perdiem. They keep that perdiem money that they collect from the contract airlines they fly for. But you do get breakfast should you happen to be in a hotel. If you are in an apartment or house, then pour yourself a bowl of flakes and add milk and sugar.
I for one do not wish to see Air Atlanta get an additional AOC since they can not manage the one they presently have. The Vikings should just keep what they have for now and work on getting that house in order before starting this new venture.
Signed,
an ex 767 pilot
The starting pay at Air Atlanta is the same now as it was 5 years ago. Having worked for them on several occasions on both the 747 and 767 I have seen personally the double standard that exists there. Air Atlanta is a stepping stone for those who wish to use them as such, and is also a place to hang out for those who wish to fly now and then and make more than one could changing oil at the local garage.
The double standard exists whereas the Icelandic Union pilots work 3 weeks on followed by 3 weeks off with salary. Plus perdiem during the 3 weeks on.
The have nots,, that being everyone else works 3 months on with a whole 8 block days to go home. And also 8 whole days off per month as well. Sometimes there were more days off during the month, but sometimes they rostered you to work 22 out of 30 days.
Starting salary for a F/O 5 years ago was $5,500 a month, it is the same now. And, no perdiem. They keep that perdiem money that they collect from the contract airlines they fly for. But you do get breakfast should you happen to be in a hotel. If you are in an apartment or house, then pour yourself a bowl of flakes and add milk and sugar.
I for one do not wish to see Air Atlanta get an additional AOC since they can not manage the one they presently have. The Vikings should just keep what they have for now and work on getting that house in order before starting this new venture.
Signed,
an ex 767 pilot
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
From: USA
The bloody one Air Atlanta hired to settle issues made a confusing mess with the matter.
Poor bloke was laughed at behind his back in the pubs.
Overheard the outside agency employees state they have listened to his lies for years prior to employment with Atlanta.
Definitly made things worse.
Yes if not happy find another job, working on it with loads of others.
Poor bloke was laughed at behind his back in the pubs.
Overheard the outside agency employees state they have listened to his lies for years prior to employment with Atlanta.
Definitly made things worse.
Yes if not happy find another job, working on it with loads of others.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
From: USA
B767Longhaul said Starting salary for a F/O 5 years ago was $5,500 a month, it is the same now.
How many days do u you have to work to make this ??
I thought AAI paid their F/O 175$/day. So How do you come up with that amount of cash ???
Could you explain that figure you come up with ??
I am going to be out of a job soon so I am just exploring my options. But only if...
And regarding the meals. If it is not Breakfast time, Do you have tobring your own meal on the airplane ?? WTF What a deal, I could get started on my diet...
Later.
How many days do u you have to work to make this ??
I thought AAI paid their F/O 175$/day. So How do you come up with that amount of cash ???
Could you explain that figure you come up with ??
I am going to be out of a job soon so I am just exploring my options. But only if...
And regarding the meals. If it is not Breakfast time, Do you have tobring your own meal on the airplane ?? WTF What a deal, I could get started on my diet...
Later.
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 269
Likes: 1
From: Age
I worked a year and half with AAI, never had a contract, got paid 175$ a day, I was pushed to fly illegaly (If you don't do it, we send you back home is the standard answer at AAI).
The management calls their pilots the boomerangs (the stronger you throw them, the faster they come back). I made up my mind and quit my job without having anything else in view. I couldn't cope with the spirit, never seen such a bunch of liers.
I'd rather not be flying
The management calls their pilots the boomerangs (the stronger you throw them, the faster they come back). I made up my mind and quit my job without having anything else in view. I couldn't cope with the spirit, never seen such a bunch of liers.
I'd rather not be flying
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
From: Bangkok
AAI, pay and management
Pilots are toilet paper to Air Atlanta,, they use you and then throw you away !!!
To NTM,
Air Atlanta primarily uses 2 contract agencies, the first is Direct Personnel and the other is ACE, which is owned or controlled by Air Atlanta. ...edited out an unwarranted personal comment. Don't do it again.
First Officer and Flight Engineer pay:
Direct paid $ 5,500 a month salary for 75 hours and ACE paid $175 a day.
Captain pay:
Direct paid $7,500 a month salary for 75 hours and ACE paid $250 a day.
I am assuming that it is still the same.
Good luck.
While there are some good "individuals" at Air Atlanta, the company management remains inadequate. Especially in the Crew Planning department and training department where the department heads are clueless and have no business "trying" to manage these departments.
To NTM,
Air Atlanta primarily uses 2 contract agencies, the first is Direct Personnel and the other is ACE, which is owned or controlled by Air Atlanta. ...edited out an unwarranted personal comment. Don't do it again.
First Officer and Flight Engineer pay:
Direct paid $ 5,500 a month salary for 75 hours and ACE paid $175 a day.
Captain pay:
Direct paid $7,500 a month salary for 75 hours and ACE paid $250 a day.
I am assuming that it is still the same.
Good luck.
While there are some good "individuals" at Air Atlanta, the company management remains inadequate. Especially in the Crew Planning department and training department where the department heads are clueless and have no business "trying" to manage these departments.
Last edited by Sick Squid; 14th April 2003 at 08:09.
Joined: Dec 1999
Posts: 645
Likes: 0
From: Metung RSL or Collingwood Social Club on weekends!
A top outfit if you are into contract flying and working when YOU feel like it. Never been late with the pay and maintenance is excellent (talking 747 fleet).
The Old Man has never been fond of whingers and spoon fed silver tails, so if you think you can do better than Air Atlanta - then hoo roo !!!
The Old Man has never been fond of whingers and spoon fed silver tails, so if you think you can do better than Air Atlanta - then hoo roo !!!
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 269
Likes: 1
From: Age
Whiskery, you will have to explain how you manage to work when YOU want. If I remember, I was only working WHEN AAI NEEDED ME. You are able to say no when you don't want to work (but you shouldn't say it too often because then you don't get called anymore) but you can't decide when you will work, so basically you take the crap they assign you to do and shut up. Some people might like it, as well as beeing away from home for up to 3 month at the time. I made my choice : NEVER AGAIN
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
From: USA
Sign up or sign out
Get a life!
Air Atlanta just advertise positions they do not hold a gun to your head. Nobody has to join.
Atlanta have helped many pilots back to work and have got many pilots off the bread line.
Sure some leave but most complete the contract as offered and many come back.
When many so called BIG airlines just dump their staff, why give stick to one that gives work.
Maybe the new guy is getting nowhere but last week a pilots notice place a date of 1June 2003
for the introduction of a new long term contract. Sounds like progress to me.
Earlier posts refer to pilots laughing behind his back in Pubs. They should just leave or speak up,
but stop crying in their pints.
Air Atlanta just advertise positions they do not hold a gun to your head. Nobody has to join.
Atlanta have helped many pilots back to work and have got many pilots off the bread line.
Sure some leave but most complete the contract as offered and many come back.
When many so called BIG airlines just dump their staff, why give stick to one that gives work.
Maybe the new guy is getting nowhere but last week a pilots notice place a date of 1June 2003
for the introduction of a new long term contract. Sounds like progress to me.
Earlier posts refer to pilots laughing behind his back in Pubs. They should just leave or speak up,
but stop crying in their pints.
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 4,507
Likes: 4
From: last time I looked I was still here.
Some insight please, and some words from various horse's mouths.
About 2 months ago I had contact from Direct & ACE. Both related to B767 work. UK was mentioned, worldwide was mentioned & even AMS was mentioned. It all sounded like it was happening just around the corner.
I'm type rated and available quickly. No more has been heard.
What is going on? If B767 guys are fleeing the coup it makes you think they need crews, but then again, would I want it. I'm just curious about a seeming lust for captains, then sullen silence.
About 2 months ago I had contact from Direct & ACE. Both related to B767 work. UK was mentioned, worldwide was mentioned & even AMS was mentioned. It all sounded like it was happening just around the corner.
I'm type rated and available quickly. No more has been heard.
What is going on? If B767 guys are fleeing the coup it makes you think they need crews, but then again, would I want it. I'm just curious about a seeming lust for captains, then sullen silence.