AAI losing pilots
Join Date: Mar 2003
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What has been written about AAI is in basic terms right. They are loosing pilots, a fact that will become a very real problem for AAI in the coming months.
Nobody is to blame except the management itself, because they keep their crews working the longest known periods in the business and for very low salary to say at least. Abra comments about “golden balls contract” is both right and wrong. There is a group of people, not all icelanders though, that AA has kept as they need to secure themselves a minimum number of crews at all time. Those (better paid) pilots are make up the base of crews that AA wants to have available long term, sor all year round projects.But there are many icelanders with AAI today that dont work under that “golden balls” contract. In fact, if anything those pilots (most ex-icelandicair) work on ACE lowest scale pay and to top things have to face the most strict tax environment in the world. But for many others I think that ACE deal, given some changes in terms and conditions, could be made to work for us. But surely it must change. Othervise people will just give up and leave.
Air Atlanta has grown immensely. Its a lively work place. The biggest problem is still the same it was 10 years ago. They make good firefighters (dealing with occuring problems on day to day basis). But what needs to happen is preventing those fires (problems) to break out in the first place. One of the first things they seriously need not only to consider but actually DO, is to work out better working conditions for their employees. Should that happen, not only would AA not run into problems like they are doing now but AA would actually be a good place to work. Benefit to both.
Nobody is to blame except the management itself, because they keep their crews working the longest known periods in the business and for very low salary to say at least. Abra comments about “golden balls contract” is both right and wrong. There is a group of people, not all icelanders though, that AA has kept as they need to secure themselves a minimum number of crews at all time. Those (better paid) pilots are make up the base of crews that AA wants to have available long term, sor all year round projects.But there are many icelanders with AAI today that dont work under that “golden balls” contract. In fact, if anything those pilots (most ex-icelandicair) work on ACE lowest scale pay and to top things have to face the most strict tax environment in the world. But for many others I think that ACE deal, given some changes in terms and conditions, could be made to work for us. But surely it must change. Othervise people will just give up and leave.
Air Atlanta has grown immensely. Its a lively work place. The biggest problem is still the same it was 10 years ago. They make good firefighters (dealing with occuring problems on day to day basis). But what needs to happen is preventing those fires (problems) to break out in the first place. One of the first things they seriously need not only to consider but actually DO, is to work out better working conditions for their employees. Should that happen, not only would AA not run into problems like they are doing now but AA would actually be a good place to work. Benefit to both.
Join Date: Dec 1999
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Poor old 411A - still trying to get mileage out of an audit that was initiated by a false report from a disgruntled sacked lame.
The audit showed Air Atlanta was conforming to CAA regulations and the paperwork was flawless. They (AAI) were never challenged again!
Please get into general aviation 411A or something else to get your mind off not getting a contract renewal by Air Atlanta all those years ago.
Let it go Mate!
The audit showed Air Atlanta was conforming to CAA regulations and the paperwork was flawless. They (AAI) were never challenged again!
Please get into general aviation 411A or something else to get your mind off not getting a contract renewal by Air Atlanta all those years ago.
Let it go Mate!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Contract.......?
Yes, Earl, that be the one.
Can remember folks had to actually call Iceland at least twice a month to chase down their salary, oddly enough even some of the Icelandic F/O's complained about this.
Could be now tho that with enough business, times have changed....or maybe not.
Outside agency always better.
Can remember folks had to actually call Iceland at least twice a month to chase down their salary, oddly enough even some of the Icelandic F/O's complained about this.
Could be now tho that with enough business, times have changed....or maybe not.
Outside agency always better.
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I have just returned home after a very pleasant stay in the Carribean courtesy of AAI and was able to have a chat with the CP. I got the impression that they are aware of the impending problems and, hopefully things may change. Remember there have been management changes and fleet changes in the last 18 months plus a new major shareholder, all of which must put pressure on the old guard to 'smell the coffee'. We will see. Personally I find the job a great deal of fun, especially after years of IT charter.
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According to internal information the new airline is called Air Atlanta Europe and will start with one 767 with more in the summer. I hear they are looking to offer a core group of 767 pilots year round UK contracts based at Gatwick.
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Totally agree with Woodpidgeon, ABDC and Canadair.
The improvements we have seen over the years seam to be limited in the most part to the MX department, which has made great strides to improve internal quality and personnel relations. It should be noted that the majority of MX are also on a contract overseen by the big A, however they have (through sticking together en mass) managed to negotiate paid days off.
It is sad to see all these good people leaving, but for the want of some simple necessary contractual changes.
I think we are all agreed, but for a few changes this could be such a good company to work for. I just hope they wake up before it is all too late.
411A, You never had your facts right when you went on your first vitriolic hate campaign, shortly after your contract was “not renewed”.
Your tone seams to have softened over the years, but you never managed to get the facts straight.
Still don’t think that AAI will be renewing your contract any time soon.
Was it a good swap the L1011 for the 411A?
The improvements we have seen over the years seam to be limited in the most part to the MX department, which has made great strides to improve internal quality and personnel relations. It should be noted that the majority of MX are also on a contract overseen by the big A, however they have (through sticking together en mass) managed to negotiate paid days off.
It is sad to see all these good people leaving, but for the want of some simple necessary contractual changes.
I think we are all agreed, but for a few changes this could be such a good company to work for. I just hope they wake up before it is all too late.
411A, You never had your facts right when you went on your first vitriolic hate campaign, shortly after your contract was “not renewed”.
Your tone seams to have softened over the years, but you never managed to get the facts straight.
Still don’t think that AAI will be renewing your contract any time soon.
Was it a good swap the L1011 for the 411A?
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Changes...maybe
Flybob,
Have owned my personal aeroplane long before AAI, and have found it quite useful for business...and that business now is recruiting and managing pilots, and yes, with considerable success.
Glad to hear that AAI have improved in the maintenance department, was long overdue. As to the working conditions for the pilots in AAI, wish them well but suspect that not all that much has changed, and from some of the comments on this forum, definately have not. In fact, it may have gone downhill just a bit for when I was there was always paid for off/vacation days...seems that is not the norm now. With the surplus of available pilots now, suspect that will not change either.
Time will tell
Have owned my personal aeroplane long before AAI, and have found it quite useful for business...and that business now is recruiting and managing pilots, and yes, with considerable success.
Glad to hear that AAI have improved in the maintenance department, was long overdue. As to the working conditions for the pilots in AAI, wish them well but suspect that not all that much has changed, and from some of the comments on this forum, definately have not. In fact, it may have gone downhill just a bit for when I was there was always paid for off/vacation days...seems that is not the norm now. With the surplus of available pilots now, suspect that will not change either.
Time will tell
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Just ask...
Flybob,
Give a call to one or two reputable European crew agencies and find out the score...you might just be surprised.
BA (just one example) has for many years been a source for experienced guys, and not likely to change anytime soon. Suspect AAI could pick and choose at their leisure for pilots, the only drawback might be the contract/lack thereof, not to forget adequate salary.
Hope you're not thinking of industrial action, old boy.
Give a call to one or two reputable European crew agencies and find out the score...you might just be surprised.
BA (just one example) has for many years been a source for experienced guys, and not likely to change anytime soon. Suspect AAI could pick and choose at their leisure for pilots, the only drawback might be the contract/lack thereof, not to forget adequate salary.
Hope you're not thinking of industrial action, old boy.
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411a.
Your lose grip on reality is slipping.
Firstly, what would you know about reputable contracting agencies?
Secondly, as any one knows who is around what is going on, BA has been a source for retired typed staff, Not only for AAI but for several other as well, but on a minor level only. Not enough to supply and maintain up to 12 classics, 8 x 76 and 3 x 75s.
I would guess at less than a couple of percent at best of retired capts.
We never could tempt their first officers to leave………………..?
As for contracts available:
Please feel free to check out the web sites advertising in Europe for 75 and 76 type rated personnel. (With a JAR licence).
(This would be from your aforementioned reputable agencies)
Supply and demand Old Boy, supply and demand.
I feel sure if you could apply your untold talents into providing AAI with the 40 or so crew they are missing for the summer op then you could well be on the way to making your first million.
Now back to reality…..
Industrial action? That’s your line of work!! Old Boy!
Your lose grip on reality is slipping.
Firstly, what would you know about reputable contracting agencies?
Secondly, as any one knows who is around what is going on, BA has been a source for retired typed staff, Not only for AAI but for several other as well, but on a minor level only. Not enough to supply and maintain up to 12 classics, 8 x 76 and 3 x 75s.
I would guess at less than a couple of percent at best of retired capts.
We never could tempt their first officers to leave………………..?
As for contracts available:
Please feel free to check out the web sites advertising in Europe for 75 and 76 type rated personnel. (With a JAR licence).
(This would be from your aforementioned reputable agencies)
Supply and demand Old Boy, supply and demand.
I feel sure if you could apply your untold talents into providing AAI with the 40 or so crew they are missing for the summer op then you could well be on the way to making your first million.
Now back to reality…..
Industrial action? That’s your line of work!! Old Boy!
Join Date: Mar 2000
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Don't believe what you hear.....
Flybob,
Reality? Think yours is slipping.
AAI will have no problems attracting crew for the season, irrespective of the contracts posted elsewhere...and their salaries will not increase much either. Received a CV from one of their 767 guys two months ago, he simply wanted a change. Many to take his place.
OTOH, seasonal work suits some, as you should know.
As the UK division comes on stream, their costs will rise, further holding down salaries.
IF they stick to what they know best, will do OK....we'll see.
Reality? Think yours is slipping.
AAI will have no problems attracting crew for the season, irrespective of the contracts posted elsewhere...and their salaries will not increase much either. Received a CV from one of their 767 guys two months ago, he simply wanted a change. Many to take his place.
OTOH, seasonal work suits some, as you should know.
As the UK division comes on stream, their costs will rise, further holding down salaries.
IF they stick to what they know best, will do OK....we'll see.
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I agree with Flybob, firstly in discrediting 411A who is an enduring irksome quirk of pprune, secondly that AAI certainly do not have a surplus of JAR 74 & 76 crews.
I am one who is reluctantly leaving AAI because of the lack of career provided by their non-employment policy. Otherwise, its a great place to work. Incidentally, my new company are having to train pilots off the street. Perhaps they are unaware of this endless pilot surplus on 411a's books.
I am one who is reluctantly leaving AAI because of the lack of career provided by their non-employment policy. Otherwise, its a great place to work. Incidentally, my new company are having to train pilots off the street. Perhaps they are unaware of this endless pilot surplus on 411a's books.
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Career......?
Awakevortice,
You make a common mistake in assuming AAI is a 'career' airline.
Except for the local folks, it is a contract airline, nothing more, nothing less. You are hired for a contract (thru their own agency, bad idea), and when the contract is finished, out you go...and has been that way for many years. Their planned UK operation 'might' be different, but don't think so.
Contract work suits some.
IF you want a career, join a large scheduled airline.
And, if you read clearly, I never indicated that they had a 'surplus'...only that they would have little difficulity in recruiting crews...and they never have.
You make a common mistake in assuming AAI is a 'career' airline.
Except for the local folks, it is a contract airline, nothing more, nothing less. You are hired for a contract (thru their own agency, bad idea), and when the contract is finished, out you go...and has been that way for many years. Their planned UK operation 'might' be different, but don't think so.
Contract work suits some.
IF you want a career, join a large scheduled airline.
And, if you read clearly, I never indicated that they had a 'surplus'...only that they would have little difficulity in recruiting crews...and they never have.
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Take a chill pill dude....
Flybob,
Yep, ALWAYS paid, thru an outside agency (vacation, days off, the lot)...and quite handsomely too, as a senior check and training guy.
Personally know several folks who had a very difficult time collecting their dues. Bad reputation in the early days...seems better now, and it will HAVE to be if they are a UK carrier.
You sound rather dis-satisfied...having problems? You seem to have to keep defending yourself, or the concerned company.
Yep, ALWAYS paid, thru an outside agency (vacation, days off, the lot)...and quite handsomely too, as a senior check and training guy.
Personally know several folks who had a very difficult time collecting their dues. Bad reputation in the early days...seems better now, and it will HAVE to be if they are a UK carrier.
You sound rather dis-satisfied...having problems? You seem to have to keep defending yourself, or the concerned company.
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Yes in total agreement. Air Atlanta is not a career position.
Another Hajjah finished. Most crews finished 110 hrs plus in less than 28 days exceeding the Jars once again.
Trouble is that it was done in 2 separate months so no OT.
Now we begin our un scheduled vacation for who knows what length of time.
Managment claims no long term contracts for the 747 workers
at meetings held with our crews at various bases.
No representation from the outside crew handling agencies at these meetings either.
Was informed that they were not invited.
Another Hajjah finished. Most crews finished 110 hrs plus in less than 28 days exceeding the Jars once again.
Trouble is that it was done in 2 separate months so no OT.
Now we begin our un scheduled vacation for who knows what length of time.
Managment claims no long term contracts for the 747 workers
at meetings held with our crews at various bases.
No representation from the outside crew handling agencies at these meetings either.
Was informed that they were not invited.
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We are very fortunate for the 767 will do much better in the contract department, length etc.
Poor 747 guys, feel sorry for them, they are getting the short end of the stick.
Disagree with 411 about outside agencies, word has it that Atlanta feels they can obtain all the pilots they need without them.
Poor 747 guys, feel sorry for them, they are getting the short end of the stick.
Disagree with 411 about outside agencies, word has it that Atlanta feels they can obtain all the pilots they need without them.
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to the guys on the 76, well great you feel so protected compared to the poor fellows on the 74, but you are no more insulated than the classic fleet.
You are offered the same crap employment contract, on the same terms, with the same complete lack of guaranteees.
If you take it, great, but you are certainly no better off!
You are offered the same crap employment contract, on the same terms, with the same complete lack of guaranteees.
If you take it, great, but you are certainly no better off!