BA Pilot arrested in ARN ???
Join Date: Feb 2001
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Seriously?
The instrument maker made an instrument which can detect a pilot reporting for duty with alcohol in the blood, and HE is to blame????
Scandihooligans, the system, the law, instrument makers, who is the next one to blame? The butler?
Scandihooligans, the system, the law, instrument makers, who is the next one to blame? The butler?
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Whilst we all agree that we should not report for work inder the influence of alcohol, not even with the residual alcohol from a minimal intake during the off-duty period before the 8/12/24 hour threshold, is it not possible to have 0.2 promille detectable in the blood which has been produced metabollically?
It has been established that the 0.2 promille (0.02%) limit has been arbitarilly set as the limit due to the sensitivity of the detectors. What I am trying to find out is if it is possible that someone can be over that 0.2 promille level even though they have never had an alcoholic drink in their life?
Information has been uncovered that there may be more to this case than meets the eye. Whilst investigations are still ongoing precise details cannot be revealed. Suffice it to say that there is growing evidence that a 'dirty tricks' campaign may have been and may still be underway against the pilot concerned. Having revealed this much I can state that there are likely to be some managers in BA who should be more careful about what and where they post on PPRuNe.
If the evidence that is being collated proves to be correct and so far it appears to be so, then it will not be the first time that subterfuge and 'dirty tricks' have been used by some people in BA management. BALPA will be given access to the information as the pilot concerned is not only a member but holds a position as a BA rep. Those of you familiar with this kind of subterfuge will remember the cases of Capt. Glen Stuart and Capt. Stuart Clapson.
Nuff said... for now!
It has been established that the 0.2 promille (0.02%) limit has been arbitarilly set as the limit due to the sensitivity of the detectors. What I am trying to find out is if it is possible that someone can be over that 0.2 promille level even though they have never had an alcoholic drink in their life?
Information has been uncovered that there may be more to this case than meets the eye. Whilst investigations are still ongoing precise details cannot be revealed. Suffice it to say that there is growing evidence that a 'dirty tricks' campaign may have been and may still be underway against the pilot concerned. Having revealed this much I can state that there are likely to be some managers in BA who should be more careful about what and where they post on PPRuNe.
If the evidence that is being collated proves to be correct and so far it appears to be so, then it will not be the first time that subterfuge and 'dirty tricks' have been used by some people in BA management. BALPA will be given access to the information as the pilot concerned is not only a member but holds a position as a BA rep. Those of you familiar with this kind of subterfuge will remember the cases of Capt. Glen Stuart and Capt. Stuart Clapson.
Nuff said... for now!
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Danny
It sounds very intriguing and if there is evidence of some form of subtefuge then I hope the person concerned will get the full support he deserves.
I also hope that if that is the case, BALPA has had sufficient changes in management and policy in recent years to give that support. I remember only too well the case of poor Glen Stuart, who IMHO did not get the support from BALPA that he deserved. That was a black day in BALPA's past and one where those responsible should feel eternally shamed and contrite about.
It sounds very intriguing and if there is evidence of some form of subtefuge then I hope the person concerned will get the full support he deserves.
I also hope that if that is the case, BALPA has had sufficient changes in management and policy in recent years to give that support. I remember only too well the case of poor Glen Stuart, who IMHO did not get the support from BALPA that he deserved. That was a black day in BALPA's past and one where those responsible should feel eternally shamed and contrite about.
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Hi Fifty Four
Long time no see, yup I was the Capt in SCN, and if I remember rightly You gave me two minature brandies and I did take the breathaliser and it registered 0!, so much for Dan's Brandy eh?, and yes the German police did then go away 'happy' with a statement!.
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No drinks, but under the influence?
This was discussed at length in Norway, when they introduced 0.2 promille for driving. I seem to recall that, if you eat 2 loafs of freshly baked bread, yes you can get a level of alcohol in your blood. Same if you, like a moose (elk), eat 20 kilo of half rotten fruit.
In general, a normal healthy person, on a normal diet will not produce any alcohol.
A number of intakes may give a false positive on a breath test, but will not show up on a blood test. Indeed, if your breath test is in doubt, the police in Norway will wait for 30 minutes, and then perform a new test. If still around the limit, a blood test will be taken. This will normally take care of mouth rinse, candy with some alcohol in it, etc. The traffic police that is, don't know how they would handle a pilot with 0.2.
It's a sad world if the rest Danny is hinting at, is true.
In general, a normal healthy person, on a normal diet will not produce any alcohol.
A number of intakes may give a false positive on a breath test, but will not show up on a blood test. Indeed, if your breath test is in doubt, the police in Norway will wait for 30 minutes, and then perform a new test. If still around the limit, a blood test will be taken. This will normally take care of mouth rinse, candy with some alcohol in it, etc. The traffic police that is, don't know how they would handle a pilot with 0.2.
It's a sad world if the rest Danny is hinting at, is true.
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Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet reports that the blood test showed that the BA pilot had 0.59 promille alcohol in his blood - way above the preliminary 0.2 promille.
One reason for the big difference might be that the breathalizer equipment used by swedish police often only show if the alcohol level is above the legal 0.2 promille or not.
If so, further tests, like a blood test, must be done. That test will then be used as evidence in court.
So, it seems that he was drunk after all...
One reason for the big difference might be that the breathalizer equipment used by swedish police often only show if the alcohol level is above the legal 0.2 promille or not.
If so, further tests, like a blood test, must be done. That test will then be used as evidence in court.
So, it seems that he was drunk after all...
tractor puller
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me to read it....this is very sad....I'm getttin scared, how can anyone consider checkin in with this amount of alcohol in his or her blood????
I don't know if he was framed anymore...can we get a second opinion Danny? you seem to be on top of those things...anything in the UK papers???
http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/Inrikes/did_4816456.asp
In swedish....
I don't know if he was framed anymore...can we get a second opinion Danny? you seem to be on top of those things...anything in the UK papers???
http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/Inrikes/did_4816456.asp
In swedish....
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An article referring to the Arlanda breath- test now appears in the Telegraph Travel section.
I have started a thread under "Could your pilot be over the limit" which is the headline to the item.
Oops. Danny seems to have binned that thread leaving one about "Are all UK pilots drunk?" on the same subject
I have started a thread under "Could your pilot be over the limit" which is the headline to the item.
Oops. Danny seems to have binned that thread leaving one about "Are all UK pilots drunk?" on the same subject
Last edited by Lou Scannon; 1st Feb 2003 at 12:48.
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Translation of the swedish newspaper article.
Svenska Dagbladet
1-2-2003
Unclear if drunk pilot will be charged
The CA captain who was stopped just before start at Arlanda last sarurday, was under the influence of alcohol. The result of the blood test that came in yesterday shows 0.59 promille.
But Björn Frithiof, the public prosecutor who leads the investigation, has not decided if he will or will not bring charges.
- Off the cuff, I feel that the action is so serious that charges are indicated. But here is a possibilty to refrain from bringing charges, since the pilot concerned is not swedish and lives abroad. One can also require him to be charged in England.-
Aviation rules do not state any promille limits and the concept of of "drunk flying" does not exist. But someone who is so much under the influence of alcohol or other substances when working on a flight deck that he "can not execute his duties in a safe manner" can get up to two years in prison, or be fined when the transgression is of a lesser nature.
Svenska Dagbladet
1-2-2003
Unclear if drunk pilot will be charged
The CA captain who was stopped just before start at Arlanda last sarurday, was under the influence of alcohol. The result of the blood test that came in yesterday shows 0.59 promille.
But Björn Frithiof, the public prosecutor who leads the investigation, has not decided if he will or will not bring charges.
- Off the cuff, I feel that the action is so serious that charges are indicated. But here is a possibilty to refrain from bringing charges, since the pilot concerned is not swedish and lives abroad. One can also require him to be charged in England.-
Aviation rules do not state any promille limits and the concept of of "drunk flying" does not exist. But someone who is so much under the influence of alcohol or other substances when working on a flight deck that he "can not execute his duties in a safe manner" can get up to two years in prison, or be fined when the transgression is of a lesser nature.
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LOL..
"....and the concept of of "drunk flying" does not exist."
See?.. thats way we are all drunk, all the time, because its legal.. so there!!..
Another great statement by idiots..
"....and the concept of of "drunk flying" does not exist."
See?.. thats way we are all drunk, all the time, because its legal.. so there!!..
Another great statement by idiots..
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Reading Flapsforty's translation of the Swedish newspaper article "Unclear if drunk pilot will be charged", I suppose there's some small comfort in seeing that Britain isn't the only country with trashy newspapers who don't allow facts to get in the way of a sensationalist story. Drunk??? 
But depressing, regardless of country, when people in authority release information which they know will fuel 'trial by newspaper'.
If the Captain is prosecuted, evidence of his blood/alcohol reading will be adduced in a Court. That is the proper time and place to release such information into the public domain.
If he isn't prosecuted, then the information should not be released, except in confidence to the relevant aviation authority and/or his employers.
In my view, the authorities should not have released any information whatsoever about the incident except to his company. The proper answer to any journalists' questions should have been "No Comment" or, at the very most, a short formal statement simply confirming that "A pilot has been arrested and investigations are continuing."
But depressing, regardless of country, when people in authority release information which they know will fuel 'trial by newspaper'.
If the Captain is prosecuted, evidence of his blood/alcohol reading will be adduced in a Court. That is the proper time and place to release such information into the public domain.
If he isn't prosecuted, then the information should not be released, except in confidence to the relevant aviation authority and/or his employers.
In my view, the authorities should not have released any information whatsoever about the incident except to his company. The proper answer to any journalists' questions should have been "No Comment" or, at the very most, a short formal statement simply confirming that "A pilot has been arrested and investigations are continuing."
ENTREPPRUNEUR
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This is from the FAA Office of Aviation Medicine:
"The number of serious errors committed by pilots dramatically increases at or above concentrations of 0.04% blood alcohol. This is not to say that problems don't occur below this value. Some studies have shown decrements in pilot performance with blood alcohol concentrations as low as the 0.025%".
This might be related to this from the NIAAA:
In a typical study of the effects of pilot impairment, aircraft pilots completed eight sessions of simulated flight between San Francisco and Los Angeles in a Boeing 727-232 simulator (16). Planning and performance errors, procedural errors, and failures of vigilance each increased significantly with increasing BAC. Serious errors increased significantly at the lowest BAC, 0.025 percent, compared with performance at 0 percent BAC.
"The number of serious errors committed by pilots dramatically increases at or above concentrations of 0.04% blood alcohol. This is not to say that problems don't occur below this value. Some studies have shown decrements in pilot performance with blood alcohol concentrations as low as the 0.025%".
This might be related to this from the NIAAA:
In a typical study of the effects of pilot impairment, aircraft pilots completed eight sessions of simulated flight between San Francisco and Los Angeles in a Boeing 727-232 simulator (16). Planning and performance errors, procedural errors, and failures of vigilance each increased significantly with increasing BAC. Serious errors increased significantly at the lowest BAC, 0.025 percent, compared with performance at 0 percent BAC.
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Swedish-English
To be fair, the headline is better translated into "Intoxicated pilot"(my opinion).
He is actually saying that Sweden does not have any limits with regard to flying and drinking. Either he doesn't know what he is talking about, or the rules have changed dramatically in Sweden.
If this nigel is an average guy, he must have been close to 2 promille when he went to bed 8-9 hours before. If he could find his bed.
As to releasing information, as far as I know, his name has not been printed anywhere. I don't really see the problem.
He is actually saying that Sweden does not have any limits with regard to flying and drinking. Either he doesn't know what he is talking about, or the rules have changed dramatically in Sweden.
If this nigel is an average guy, he must have been close to 2 promille when he went to bed 8-9 hours before. If he could find his bed.
As to releasing information, as far as I know, his name has not been printed anywhere. I don't really see the problem.
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Scando,
He is probably right. The LAW does not give any specified limit therefore hard to PROSECUTE due to BAC only. The regulations specify 0.02%. Now this is braking the rules and the CAA may revoke his license but the prosecutor can not do anything to him when only looking at the BAC. Any lawyeres here to verify this?
He is probably right. The LAW does not give any specified limit therefore hard to PROSECUTE due to BAC only. The regulations specify 0.02%. Now this is braking the rules and the CAA may revoke his license but the prosecutor can not do anything to him when only looking at the BAC. Any lawyeres here to verify this?
Uncle Pete
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Unfortunately one of the lower end of the gutter press, for reasons best known to themselves, have published the pilots's name and age.
No doubt they will apologise on the front page in big letters if they've got it wrong!!!
MP
No doubt they will apologise on the front page in big letters if they've got it wrong!!!
MP
