BA Pilot arrested in ARN ???
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: staines,uk
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As cabin crew I know that at the end of a five to seven day block of earlies,getting up at base or downroute is irrelevant and long multi-sector days,sometimes I really feel the tiredness take affect.
In our position as cabin crew this can be seen in the service when our faces crack on day six sector four when trying to say 'hello and goodbye'with company smiles!!,or when someone asks for a drink and when you take it the punter in the next seat asks for one
.
On a safety side of things we may be two seconds slower to open the door.
My point here is if our actions are impaired by 'fatigue' the consequences would certainly not be as serious as it would to our colleagues on the flight deck.
No I don't want to fly with any pilot who is p**sed and to my knowledge never have (and IMHO a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of pints outside of 12 hours is NOT p**sed ),however more and more I see pilots on their last sector of a busy tour with lots of early starts and they look very tired and this does concern me.
Both BALPA and to an extent our cabin crew unions need to ensure no increase to our working hours if not fight for a reduction.
I have one day off which is today and I'm back on duty at 0810 tomorrow so to be safe do I have to have my two glasses of red at 1600 with an early dinner to be safe??. Maybe we should look at a minimum early start on our first day back ?.
There are people out there willing to stop us flying for being 'over the limit' and that can only be a good thing for all concerned but I can't see these same people doing the same if they see we're tired!!.
I finish by asking all those highly paid 'journos' out there to reduce their alcohol intake and it may help them stop getting so many facts mixed up and producing such sh*t articles on their front pages.If I can find some pretty Airbus F/O on 100K I may have to say goodbye to the Missus!!.
NJR.
In our position as cabin crew this can be seen in the service when our faces crack on day six sector four when trying to say 'hello and goodbye'with company smiles!!,or when someone asks for a drink and when you take it the punter in the next seat asks for one
.On a safety side of things we may be two seconds slower to open the door.
My point here is if our actions are impaired by 'fatigue' the consequences would certainly not be as serious as it would to our colleagues on the flight deck.
No I don't want to fly with any pilot who is p**sed and to my knowledge never have (and IMHO a couple of glasses of wine or a couple of pints outside of 12 hours is NOT p**sed ),however more and more I see pilots on their last sector of a busy tour with lots of early starts and they look very tired and this does concern me.
Both BALPA and to an extent our cabin crew unions need to ensure no increase to our working hours if not fight for a reduction.
I have one day off which is today and I'm back on duty at 0810 tomorrow so to be safe do I have to have my two glasses of red at 1600 with an early dinner to be safe??. Maybe we should look at a minimum early start on our first day back ?.
There are people out there willing to stop us flying for being 'over the limit' and that can only be a good thing for all concerned but I can't see these same people doing the same if they see we're tired!!.
I finish by asking all those highly paid 'journos' out there to reduce their alcohol intake and it may help them stop getting so many facts mixed up and producing such sh*t articles on their front pages.If I can find some pretty Airbus F/O on 100K I may have to say goodbye to the Missus!!.
NJR.
Just a numbered other
witchdoctor and other puritanical zealots...
Do you ever engage brain before approaching keyboard?
'Police drag drunken BA pilot from controls of airliner.
ARRESTED IN THE COCKPIT'
is how the Mail on Sunday reported this 'Exclusive' story.
That set the tone for an article which shames modern 'journalism'. Put on the front page to shock and sell papers, but not to inform us truthfully of newsworthy world happenings.
IF the pilot was breathalysed and was asked to take a blood test, then fair enough. He was almost certainly NOT 'dragged from the controls.'
The kind of alcohol level we are talking about has nothing to do with 'drunkenness' or ability to drive or fly, but the limits to which a scientific instrument can apply the thought police policies of modern living. A zero limit sentences pilots, and pilots only it seems, to becoming tee-total or finding a new job.
What kind of world is it in which a once respected team of professionals can no longer live a normal life and exercise professional judgement over this issue?
Do you ever engage brain before approaching keyboard?
'Police drag drunken BA pilot from controls of airliner.
ARRESTED IN THE COCKPIT'
is how the Mail on Sunday reported this 'Exclusive' story.
That set the tone for an article which shames modern 'journalism'. Put on the front page to shock and sell papers, but not to inform us truthfully of newsworthy world happenings.
IF the pilot was breathalysed and was asked to take a blood test, then fair enough. He was almost certainly NOT 'dragged from the controls.'
The kind of alcohol level we are talking about has nothing to do with 'drunkenness' or ability to drive or fly, but the limits to which a scientific instrument can apply the thought police policies of modern living. A zero limit sentences pilots, and pilots only it seems, to becoming tee-total or finding a new job.
What kind of world is it in which a once respected team of professionals can no longer live a normal life and exercise professional judgement over this issue?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hello Dudes and Dudets!
nojacketsrequired and Arkroyal You are right on! The hole thing is a load of BS! This is what it comes to when we let low life pencil pushers and 'journos' make the big decisions for oss. We need to take our lifes back!
nojacketsrequired and Arkroyal You are right on! The hole thing is a load of BS! This is what it comes to when we let low life pencil pushers and 'journos' make the big decisions for oss. We need to take our lifes back!
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could it be that the journos would not have even picked up on this case had it not been for the existence of this thread? I think a degree more thought should be used before opening such threads. Press interest in the alleged offence (innocent until proven guilty, not that would have any effect on the loathsome Mail on Sunday) has probably increased the stress levels on the indivdual concerned ten-fold (and stress alone can kill)
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: British Isles
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quite right Moondance,
quite simply this guy has been treated as guilty until proved innocent by:
The gutter press
Many pprune contributors
Lets see the result of the blood test before we "convict" the guy. After all, using mouthwash would probably give a positive breathalyser result.
ATB, PTC (positively disgusted, though not surprised at this thread)
quite simply this guy has been treated as guilty until proved innocent by:
The gutter press
Many pprune contributors
Lets see the result of the blood test before we "convict" the guy. After all, using mouthwash would probably give a positive breathalyser result.
ATB, PTC (positively disgusted, though not surprised at this thread)
Join Date: Feb 2000
Posts: 292
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Arkroyal - absolutely correct.
And on Sky News last night, yet another example of our gutter loving, sensationalist, crap talking, truth-denying media - "in yet another of what is a recent long line of incidents involving pilots trying to fly while under the influence of alcohol, a BA pilot has been suspended.....blah blah blah......this will do little to restore the confidence of frightened passengers. " eh???
What a load of tosh eh..........
It's amazing how the planes ever stay up there what with us all rolling around drunk.
And on Sky News last night, yet another example of our gutter loving, sensationalist, crap talking, truth-denying media - "in yet another of what is a recent long line of incidents involving pilots trying to fly while under the influence of alcohol, a BA pilot has been suspended.....blah blah blah......this will do little to restore the confidence of frightened passengers. " eh???
What a load of tosh eh..........
It's amazing how the planes ever stay up there what with us all rolling around drunk.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: UK
Age: 46
Posts: 642
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What was the Policeman doing in the cockpit anyway? I thought the law now was that only the operating flight deck crew and CAA Ops inspectors were allowed in the cockpit of a british registered airliner?
Perhaps the issue is not that a pilot had an alchohol level equivalent to half a point of shandy drunk 12 hours earlier but that another gross breach of security has taken place and passengers were "screaming with terror" as man with "a gun and handcuffs and a truncheon" entered the cockpit.
Perhaps the issue is not that a pilot had an alchohol level equivalent to half a point of shandy drunk 12 hours earlier but that another gross breach of security has taken place and passengers were "screaming with terror" as man with "a gun and handcuffs and a truncheon" entered the cockpit.
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Newcastle, UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I thought it would be appropriate to point out that in this case it doesn't matter what Swedish law is regarding flying and drinking. The pilot was about to fly a British registered aircraft and therefore British law applies. The amount of blood alcohol allowed (0.2 promille) is the same but Swedish law is stricter regarding the number of hours "bottle to throttle". Even though you may be flying in Sweden, if the aircraft is British than you are operating to British limits not Swedish.
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Nova
Posts: 1,242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lazlo
Are you absolutely sure about that?
FWIW, I feel terribly sorry for the individual concerned. There but for the grace......etc. On no measure could this guy be considered 'drunk' if he blew one quarter of the legal limit for driving in this country!
Everybody should be aware that these puritanical limits are determined for political reasons, by politicians who wish to curry the votes of a vocal minority.
They have very little, IF ANY, scientific justification. After all, as far as I am aware, alcohol is one of many substances BANNED by the IOC, because in small quantities it actually ENHANCES human performance!!!
Give the poor guy a break, he must be going through hell!
Reading between the lines, it sounds very much to me as though somebody has had a malicous dig at him as 'payback!'
Are you absolutely sure about that?
FWIW, I feel terribly sorry for the individual concerned. There but for the grace......etc. On no measure could this guy be considered 'drunk' if he blew one quarter of the legal limit for driving in this country!
Everybody should be aware that these puritanical limits are determined for political reasons, by politicians who wish to curry the votes of a vocal minority.
They have very little, IF ANY, scientific justification. After all, as far as I am aware, alcohol is one of many substances BANNED by the IOC, because in small quantities it actually ENHANCES human performance!!!
Give the poor guy a break, he must be going through hell!
Reading between the lines, it sounds very much to me as though somebody has had a malicous dig at him as 'payback!'
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm sorry, but it sounds like a lot of you think going to work, smelling of alcohol and having 0.2 promille, is OK. That having 1/2 bottle of wine with your dinner is a right you have, and if it produces 0.2 promille in the morning, then it's the system that is wrong, not you?
The Scandihooligans are madmen, so he was simply unlucky to get caught? Better not drink in Scandiland then, save it for France? Spain?
The rules are tough, but it should not be a problem. It's not against the rules to be 100% sober when you report for duty. If he used Scotch to rinse his mouth, the blood test will clear him. The time between the breath test and the blood test will work for him, as the level will drop.
If the press reports are correct, what should the police have done when staff reported him to smell of alcohol? What should HE have done when he saw the police, run to the aircraft and shut the doors, claiming to be in UK?
The Scandihooligans are madmen, so he was simply unlucky to get caught? Better not drink in Scandiland then, save it for France? Spain?
The rules are tough, but it should not be a problem. It's not against the rules to be 100% sober when you report for duty. If he used Scotch to rinse his mouth, the blood test will clear him. The time between the breath test and the blood test will work for him, as the level will drop.
If the press reports are correct, what should the police have done when staff reported him to smell of alcohol? What should HE have done when he saw the police, run to the aircraft and shut the doors, claiming to be in UK?
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Norway
Posts: 286
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scando!
Get a grip! The man was NOT drunk. 0.02% does not meen that you´re drunk. Nobody here has said it is ok to fly drunk! It looks like You aplaude the ridiculous alkohol politics that are in force in Scandinavia. If you think the man is less safe having 0.02% alcohol than the theoretical 0.00% then you have a problem. And yes the system sucks!
Get a grip! The man was NOT drunk. 0.02% does not meen that you´re drunk. Nobody here has said it is ok to fly drunk! It looks like You aplaude the ridiculous alkohol politics that are in force in Scandinavia. If you think the man is less safe having 0.02% alcohol than the theoretical 0.00% then you have a problem. And yes the system sucks!
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montsegur
Posts: 313
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lazlo
Sorry, you are wrong to say when flying in Sweden, if the aircraft is British than you are operating to British limits not Swedish. The is no reason why the Swedish law should not apply to foreign aircraft. Indeed the Bill currently before the UK Parliament applies a 0.02 promille limit to the crew of all aircraft in the UK regardless of the registration of the aircraft or the nationality of the carrier.
Tandemrotor
The 0.02 promille limit has not be established by politicians but by the European safety regulators based on scientific evidence. I attended a Royal Aeronautical Society Conference on this subject a number of years ago and the consensus amongst the scientists making presentations was that the low limits were necessary.
Sorry, you are wrong to say when flying in Sweden, if the aircraft is British than you are operating to British limits not Swedish. The is no reason why the Swedish law should not apply to foreign aircraft. Indeed the Bill currently before the UK Parliament applies a 0.02 promille limit to the crew of all aircraft in the UK regardless of the registration of the aircraft or the nationality of the carrier.
Tandemrotor
The 0.02 promille limit has not be established by politicians but by the European safety regulators based on scientific evidence. I attended a Royal Aeronautical Society Conference on this subject a number of years ago and the consensus amongst the scientists making presentations was that the low limits were necessary.
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: EU
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First thing to do now is increase briefing times for all flights in order to familiarize with laws of your destination. You think you're legal with one beer at dep- 12hrs, it turns out to be different.
How can you know what the limit is? That could be an interesting question when BA is going to sack those pilots.
How can you know what the limit is? That could be an interesting question when BA is going to sack those pilots.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: london
Posts: 52
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We need to know if he just had a few the night before and some still remained in his bloodstream or whether he really'hung one on ' .
If it is the latter , I hope he pulls the stress card . invasive security searches several times a day , terrorist threats , long duty hours , locked up in a cockpit for hours at a time , to name but a few . All the politicians can do is dream up ways of making our lives more unpleasant .
What have the authorities done to ease ourstress levels / concerns post 911 ?
If it is the latter , I hope he pulls the stress card . invasive security searches several times a day , terrorist threats , long duty hours , locked up in a cockpit for hours at a time , to name but a few . All the politicians can do is dream up ways of making our lives more unpleasant .
What have the authorities done to ease ourstress levels / concerns post 911 ?
de minimus non curat lex
Alcohol limit
Under the present bill [clause 90] going through parliament the prescribed limit will be 20 milligammes of alcohol per 100 millilites of blood for aircrew and ATCOs. Engineers will be permitted 80 per 100. It is estimated that the present "blow in the bags" will cost £17k to modify for the lower limit.
Clause 95 permits the police to board aircraft or "any other place"
[crewroom?]
'The powers that be' estimate that between 10 and 15 individuals will be brought before the courts yearly under this new legislation.
Their airships have not explained how this figure has been computed.
Articles 5,6 and 8 of the Human Rights Act may be affected by this bill, but because it is in the public interest etc etc it is compatible with the Act. So that's alright then.
No doubt BALPA will wish to give us appropriate guidance in the fullness of time.
Clause 95 permits the police to board aircraft or "any other place"
[crewroom?]
'The powers that be' estimate that between 10 and 15 individuals will be brought before the courts yearly under this new legislation.
Their airships have not explained how this figure has been computed.
Articles 5,6 and 8 of the Human Rights Act may be affected by this bill, but because it is in the public interest etc etc it is compatible with the Act. So that's alright then.
No doubt BALPA will wish to give us appropriate guidance in the fullness of time.
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: A very long runway
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Journalist dragged from typewriter drunk!! Not really headline stuff eh! The paper is run and owned by w*nkers! They should get to face the poor bloke concerned, my guess is that a large proportion of the country are over the swedish limits a lot of the time - especially journos who look for headlines alas these days and not reporting facts. Sensationalist tw*ts.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Swedish rules...
Im a swedish pilot, according to Swedish CAA i must obey swedish rules, but if i'm flying in a country with stricter rules, i must obey them instead (are there any in this case???). Is it the same for UK?
Bye the way, 0,02% is not beeing drunk, so true, but on the other hand, taking the responsibility in account, when you show up for flight duty you should be at 0,00%.
Its our responsibility to be able to cope with situations that can be quite demanding. Are we able to do that after a night out with ramains of alcohol in the blood the morning after?
Bye the way, 0,02% is not beeing drunk, so true, but on the other hand, taking the responsibility in account, when you show up for flight duty you should be at 0,00%.
Its our responsibility to be able to cope with situations that can be quite demanding. Are we able to do that after a night out with ramains of alcohol in the blood the morning after?