Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Avion Express A320 off-piste at Vilnius

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Avion Express A320 off-piste at Vilnius

Old 9th Feb 2024, 05:13
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Ecuador
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Klimax
”I always wanted to have a life style that makes me feel like a nomad.”

High life expectations…
Mike_tanaka is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2024, 09:19
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: North of CDG
Posts: 1,042
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The accident report (due to damage to the airframe and probably to runway edge lights, it will be classified as an accident) should make for interesting reading. One point overlooked in previous comments: weather conditions, which may have contributed to reduced friction (greasy runway or aquaplaning). I wonder what Runway Condition Codes were passed on the ATIS or by ATC (even at major airports, these are usually several hours old and therefore largely useless in determining braking action or landing run).

Cheers
FougaMagister is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2024, 14:20
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mindful of their corporate liability many airfields no longer report runway Mu meter readings but only pass on pilot reports. Most snow/ice excursions these days happen because the first 1/3 of the runway is fine, having already hosted many landings today. However the upwind end can remain as icy as hell, well into a period of operations as nobody has been that far down the runway today. In this case it looks more likely they found a whole lot of impingement drag on one side, probably from slush/snow lurking on the runway margins. Landing on the centreline pays dividends.
Magplug is offline  
Old 9th Feb 2024, 14:50
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: away from home
Posts: 891
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FougaMagister
The accident report (due to damage to the airframe and probably to runway edge lights, it will be classified as an accident) should make for interesting reading. One point overlooked in previous comments: weather conditions, which may have contributed to reduced friction (greasy runway or aquaplaning). I wonder what Runway Condition Codes were passed on the ATIS or by ATC (even at major airports, these are usually several hours old and therefore largely useless in determining braking action or landing run).

Cheers
Are you so sure there will be a report? And published? We will see…

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13046059/moment-jet-179-passengers-drift-runway-vilnius-lithuania-mud-ice.html

The DM trash calls the pilot a hero. Couple of other words spring to my mind…
oceancrosser is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2024, 06:33
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 3 Likes on 2 Posts
One aspect nobody considers is that departing traffic usually sheds its anti-ice fluid at roughly the same spot you and I would get on brakes and pull TRs.. Antiskids really cant figure that out sometimes and with crosswind you quickly end in a fastnfurious drift scene
605carsten is offline  
Old 10th Feb 2024, 20:23
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: GC Paradise
Posts: 1,100
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Mike_tanaka
As far as I am aware of (FCOM is not specific about it) Max Autobrake will not arm in-flight on more recent MSNs, I.e. Enhanced onwards.

Thank you Mike_tanaka. I have not flown the Airbus types for nearly 20 years.
So my information is old and it is good to hear Airbus has updated the system. :-)


FlexibleResponse is offline  
Old 11th Feb 2024, 14:54
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
@605 carsten

Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.

Occasionally you might get an aircraft that has been de-iced with hot Type 1, but not subsequently anti-iced because the conditions do not demand it. Type 1 has a viscosity closer to water so dripping on the runway does not make it slippery. If anti-icing Type 3 or 4 treatment has been used it is designed to remain on the wing until at least 140kts. It also makes ramp areas deadly slippery underfoot if the Snowman crew have been splashing too much of it about.
Magplug is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2024, 04:37
  #48 (permalink)  
n77
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: moved again
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Magplug
@605 carsten
If anti-icing Type 3 or 4 treatment has been used it is designed to remain on the wing until at least 140kts
Type 3…?
n77 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2024, 06:34
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: EU
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by n77
Type 3…?
According to https://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/2_3_3_1.html

Type III fluids are relatively new and have properties in between Type I and Type II/IV fluids. Type III fluids also contain thickening agents and offer longer HOTs than Type I, but are formulated to shear off at lower speeds. They are designed specifically for small commuter-type aircraft, but work as well for larger aircraft.
poldek77 is offline  
Old 12th Feb 2024, 14:10
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 162
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Magplug
@605 carsten

Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.

.
If I remember correctly from my winter operations training, (20+ years ago) anti-icing fluid is designed to fall off the wing before/at a certain speed during T/O, thus ensuring wing is (more or less) clean at rotation. It is meant to do its job until ice protection sys. takes over. That`s why diffferent thicknessess for different groups of A/C (read: T/O speeds)

Last edited by hoistop; 12th Feb 2024 at 14:25.
hoistop is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 16:26
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Earth
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This was a rudder issue.
Ragneir is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 17:46
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Location, Location
Posts: 733
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragneir
This was a rudder issue.
Can you tell us more? A rudder issue as in ‘the pilot put in too much rudder’, or as in ‘a mechanical or electrical problem caused the rudder to deflect’. If it’s the latter it’s very worrying.
Mr Good Cat is online now  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 18:02
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Did this 'Rudder Issue' compel the Captain to continue taxying a badly damaged aircraft all the way back to the terminal? ....Or maybe he just had 'a moment'.
Magplug is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 18:05
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: up north
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragneir
This was a rudder issue.
would you be so kind to elaborate?
Giuff is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 18:58
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2022
Location: Earth
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.

Last edited by Saab Dastard; 28th Mar 2024 at 19:52. Reason: Unnecessary remarks removed
Ragneir is offline  
Old 28th Mar 2024, 21:09
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: D(Emona)
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Ragneir
Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
"very experienced" crew doesn't continue to taxi the aircraft after such an event. Experience is not only the amount of hours in logbook..
Dufo is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2024, 12:06
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: World
Posts: 2,560
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
... especially if the experience is in Avion, Smartlynx or similar operators.

Nobody disputes the reasons behind the rwy excursion. But to continue taxing, that was a deliberate action that in any serious operator would put you straight in no-fly, retraining, and possibly out of the job.
dirk85 is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2024, 15:53
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: up north
Posts: 271
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ragneir
Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
so it was a mechanical failure upon touchdown?
Looking forward to Airbus bulletin then.
Giuff is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2024, 17:55
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I get the impression Ragneir is employed in the Avion PR department..... For PR read 'Damage Limitation'.
Magplug is offline  
Old 29th Mar 2024, 18:21
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Everett, WA
Age: 68
Posts: 4,386
Received 178 Likes on 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Giuff
so it was a mechanical failure upon touchdown?
Looking forward to Airbus bulletin then.
I'm just imagining the uproar if this had happened with a 737 instead of an A320 and it was alleged to be a mechanical failure.
tdracer is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.