Avion Express A320 off-piste at Vilnius
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High life expectations…
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The accident report (due to damage to the airframe and probably to runway edge lights, it will be classified as an accident) should make for interesting reading. One point overlooked in previous comments: weather conditions, which may have contributed to reduced friction (greasy runway or aquaplaning). I wonder what Runway Condition Codes were passed on the ATIS or by ATC (even at major airports, these are usually several hours old and therefore largely useless in determining braking action or landing run).
Cheers
Cheers
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Mindful of their corporate liability many airfields no longer report runway Mu meter readings but only pass on pilot reports. Most snow/ice excursions these days happen because the first 1/3 of the runway is fine, having already hosted many landings today. However the upwind end can remain as icy as hell, well into a period of operations as nobody has been that far down the runway today. In this case it looks more likely they found a whole lot of impingement drag on one side, probably from slush/snow lurking on the runway margins. Landing on the centreline pays dividends.
The accident report (due to damage to the airframe and probably to runway edge lights, it will be classified as an accident) should make for interesting reading. One point overlooked in previous comments: weather conditions, which may have contributed to reduced friction (greasy runway or aquaplaning). I wonder what Runway Condition Codes were passed on the ATIS or by ATC (even at major airports, these are usually several hours old and therefore largely useless in determining braking action or landing run).
Cheers
Cheers
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13046059/moment-jet-179-passengers-drift-runway-vilnius-lithuania-mud-ice.html
The DM trash calls the pilot a hero. Couple of other words spring to my mind…
One aspect nobody considers is that departing traffic usually sheds its anti-ice fluid at roughly the same spot you and I would get on brakes and pull TRs.. Antiskids really cant figure that out sometimes and with crosswind you quickly end in a fastnfurious drift scene
Thank you Mike_tanaka. I have not flown the Airbus types for nearly 20 years.
So my information is old and it is good to hear Airbus has updated the system. :-)
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@605 carsten
Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.
Occasionally you might get an aircraft that has been de-iced with hot Type 1, but not subsequently anti-iced because the conditions do not demand it. Type 1 has a viscosity closer to water so dripping on the runway does not make it slippery. If anti-icing Type 3 or 4 treatment has been used it is designed to remain on the wing until at least 140kts. It also makes ramp areas deadly slippery underfoot if the Snowman crew have been splashing too much of it about.
Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.
Occasionally you might get an aircraft that has been de-iced with hot Type 1, but not subsequently anti-iced because the conditions do not demand it. Type 1 has a viscosity closer to water so dripping on the runway does not make it slippery. If anti-icing Type 3 or 4 treatment has been used it is designed to remain on the wing until at least 140kts. It also makes ramp areas deadly slippery underfoot if the Snowman crew have been splashing too much of it about.
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According to https://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/2_3_3_1.html
Type III fluids are relatively new and have properties in between Type I and Type II/IV fluids. Type III fluids also contain thickening agents and offer longer HOTs than Type I, but are formulated to shear off at lower speeds. They are designed specifically for small commuter-type aircraft, but work as well for larger aircraft.
Type III fluids are relatively new and have properties in between Type I and Type II/IV fluids. Type III fluids also contain thickening agents and offer longer HOTs than Type I, but are formulated to shear off at lower speeds. They are designed specifically for small commuter-type aircraft, but work as well for larger aircraft.
@605 carsten
Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.
.
Several times I have taken off in a medium behind another medium at high density airports with minimal spacing between departing aircraft. If you are unlucky enough you will get a faceful of anti-icing fluid somewhere about 800-1000 feet. If the anti-icing fluid is falling off on the runway then it is not doing it's job.
.
Last edited by hoistop; 12th Feb 2024 at 14:25.
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Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
Last edited by Saab Dastard; 28th Mar 2024 at 19:52. Reason: Unnecessary remarks removed
Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
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... especially if the experience is in Avion, Smartlynx or similar operators.
Nobody disputes the reasons behind the rwy excursion. But to continue taxing, that was a deliberate action that in any serious operator would put you straight in no-fly, retraining, and possibly out of the job.
Nobody disputes the reasons behind the rwy excursion. But to continue taxing, that was a deliberate action that in any serious operator would put you straight in no-fly, retraining, and possibly out of the job.
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Mechanical issue that's already resolved and once the report is fully released you'll know the details. The pilots were very experienced. For now, I invite you to check any videos and tell me how much the rudder moved. You'll find that it doesn't.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
And tell me if you can maintain centerline on high speed with just the tiller and the nose gear, because if you do, you're superman that needs to be put in the vanguard of new plane certification.
Looking forward to Airbus bulletin then.