Avion Express A320 off-piste at Vilnius
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Slush On The Runway Margins
From the X video all looks well until shortly after mainwheel touch down. He starts out fairly well right of centreline but then yaws quickly to the right as if the right main gear has gone into slush on the runway margin. Holding full reverse as he crosses the grass is guaranteed to trash the underbelly. With all that soft grass left ahead, stopping was not an issue. I imagine the main gear struts have seen some significant side-forces beyond design limits.
In what world is it safe to continue taxy to the terminal?
In what world is it safe to continue taxy to the terminal?
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: up north
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the X video all looks well until shortly after mainwheel touch down. He starts out fairly well right of centreline but then yaws quickly to the right as if the right main gear has gone into slush on the runway margin. Holding full reverse as he crosses the grass is guaranteed to trash the underbelly. With all that soft grass left ahead, stopping was not an issue. I imagine the main gear struts have seen some significant side-forces beyond design limits.
In what world is it safe to continue taxy to the terminal?
In what world is it safe to continue taxy to the terminal?
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Netherlands
Age: 46
Posts: 343
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 5° above the Equator, 75° left of Greenwich
Posts: 411
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Oh good! So I wasn't the only one baffled by them carrying on and taxiing in as if nothing's just happened.
To the self-declared SLF above: Yes, I wouldn't move that aircraft an inch further until someone came and took a look to at least guarantee that everything's (mostly) in place and there's no leaking going on
To the self-declared SLF above: Yes, I wouldn't move that aircraft an inch further until someone came and took a look to at least guarantee that everything's (mostly) in place and there's no leaking going on
I hate to spoil the "have a pop at the new generation" thing, but I know of a case in the '80s where, not only did the crew not admit they'd been off piste, but due to low viz, the tracks on the grass were only discovered by Ops in the morning, when the aircraft was tucked up on stand, looking a bit sorry for itself. There's nothing new under the sun...
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: up north
Posts: 276
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Could have been but the TRI/TRE is in the other seat with duplicate controls.
Maybe this was a crosswind landing, and they landed the nose gear while cock-eyed before pushing straight with the rudder ?
(my added word; we don't ever land with max autobrake.)
I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure that Airbus FBW uses directional information from the ADIRS etc. to modify the auto-braking to stay straight. So tyres or brakes losing grip or whatever would not cause this sort of deviation.
It could have been a faulty reverser on the port engine maybe.
Maybe this was a crosswind landing, and they landed the nose gear while cock-eyed before pushing straight with the rudder ?
I stand to be corrected but am fairly sure that Airbus FBW uses directional information from the ADIRS etc. to modify the auto-braking to stay straight. So tyres or brakes losing grip or whatever would not cause this sort of deviation.
It could have been a faulty reverser on the port engine maybe.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: LHR
Posts: 556
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There seems to be symmetric reverse from the forward video.... and lots of it. If that was a P2F cadet landing then the trainer should not have let the aircraft stray so far towards the slush on the runway margin, as the result was entirely predictable
I once had an autobrake mishap on landing with autobrake low + idle planned. Clean dry runway... As the nosewheel touched down there was a sharp grab of one brake snatching and immediately releasing. This was followed by a BSCU 2 ECAM and the autobrake dropping out. The runway was nice and long and there was no upset to directional control. Rev Idle was held to 70kts where we tried the brakes which worked fine, as did the NWS. On inspection there was a flat spot on one of the tyres so draw your own conclusions about what happened. Playing back the QAR gave no indication of fault, neither did the FDR. Engineers changed both BSCUs as a precaution. I think the Airbus logic may have prevented a double main-tyre blowout that day, and possible runway excursion.
I once had an autobrake mishap on landing with autobrake low + idle planned. Clean dry runway... As the nosewheel touched down there was a sharp grab of one brake snatching and immediately releasing. This was followed by a BSCU 2 ECAM and the autobrake dropping out. The runway was nice and long and there was no upset to directional control. Rev Idle was held to 70kts where we tried the brakes which worked fine, as did the NWS. On inspection there was a flat spot on one of the tyres so draw your own conclusions about what happened. Playing back the QAR gave no indication of fault, neither did the FDR. Engineers changed both BSCUs as a precaution. I think the Airbus logic may have prevented a double main-tyre blowout that day, and possible runway excursion.
Max autobrake? Thats only for RTO
I have personally seen it inadvertently selected and used on landing on two occasions (without damage but with huge pilot eyes from extremely rapid decel) on A330.
And once it featured in an A320 accident where selection of Max Autobrake was selected intentionally after Flap Ext Abnormal and the aircraft departed the runway after 5 seconds in a very similar manner to this accident aircraft.
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Ecuador
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Agree, but selection of MAX inadvertently is not inhibited.
I have personally seen it inadvertently selected and used on landing on two occasions (without damage but with huge pilot eyes from extremely rapid decel) on A330.
And once it featured in an A320 accident where selection of Max Autobrake was selected intentionally after Flap Ext Abnormal and the aircraft departed the runway after 5 seconds in a very similar manner to this accident aircraft.
I have personally seen it inadvertently selected and used on landing on two occasions (without damage but with huge pilot eyes from extremely rapid decel) on A330.
And once it featured in an A320 accident where selection of Max Autobrake was selected intentionally after Flap Ext Abnormal and the aircraft departed the runway after 5 seconds in a very similar manner to this accident aircraft.