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Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

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Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

Old 26th Oct 2023, 12:17
  #81 (permalink)  
 
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Megan,
Many reports are saying that Emerson probably took the mushrooms only hours before the incident. He may have told the arresting officers that he took some a few days prior to avoid any fault (as crazy as that seems. His behaviour, obviously, leads one to believe he was under the influence. If you read the report, it’s such a bizarre event, in that, at times, He was out of control, and a second later he was conversing with the Flight Attendants and asking to be handcuffed?

Personally I have sympathy for this guy, but I hope he never flies again! I don’t care how much help and counselling he gets, he should never sit in an aircraft again. Dot period!

MahagonyBob,
Your advocacy for Pilotless aircraft is futile….How many “Paying Passengers will walk on to a Jet with NO PILOT!!! It was only a year or so ago, half the worlds population was wearing masks in fear of stopping a virus, many of them wearing these masks, outside, in a car by themselves, or swimming in the Ocean yards away from any person. Yet you believe these same people will just walk on a Jet with no pilot to fly across the globe? Your faith in human nature is commendable, but reality often collides with fantasy. Also, as a Military Pilot, Pilotless aircraft/drones, didn’t have the best safety record.

Posted on another Pilot website,


One of my best friends knows this guy, Joe, very well. They flew together at Virgin America and now as Alaska Airlines Capts. Here was my buddies thoughts on Joe….

“he is one of my closest friends. I am sick to my stomach! Very good guy. Well respected instructor, pilot and person. Must have had a breakdown. There are a lot of pilots that we would have said, “yeah, I could see him doing that.” But not this guy!”


My personal theory. He began to feel symptoms of depression. Knowing this would possibly cause a loss of his medical and possibly his license, He clandestinely begins to experiment with mushrooms in the hope this will help. From what other people have stated, mushrooms have many delirious effects, which causes absurd, erratic, and irrational behaviors which are difficult to predict and control…his behavior certainly “fits the bill”
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 13:08
  #82 (permalink)  
 
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Chief

I was not (am not ) supporting pilot-less flying - just putting forward the facts as I see them - it certainly won’t happen soon AND thanks to all in the aviation industry the airlines safety record is fantastic - it certainly is a lot safer flying than driving!

Shared reality

Well. with statistics you can argue any point, probably even that earth is flat...

If someone says that 80% of accidents are caused by human error, that is only a fraction of the truth, as most professional aviators know that for every accident caused by human error, there are multitudes of pote
ntial disasters averted by the very same humans, applying experience, thinking outside of the box, working together to solve issues arising. Most of these events go totally unnoticed by both the public and passengers.

Totally agree !

Lies,damned lies and statistics ! Mark Twain

BUT

Humans are human and:
Have bad days
Suffer from heart attacks/colds/ depression /emotion/overwork
Take drugs/alcohol /magic mushrooms!

Etc etc

So maximum efforts should be made by the airlines to ensure that stress on aircrew is kept to a minimum .Reading some of the threads on ‘conditions ‘ I am not sure that this is happening
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 13:35
  #83 (permalink)  
 
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Is it possible this guy had a sudden psychotic episode? If so could put a different slant on things. Stranger things have happened and it's onset can be quite sudden. When it happens anything said can have no bearing on the reality of the situation, and the individual has at times zero control over their own actions or understanding of the world around them. Stress and fatigue, combined with some unknown lurking vulnerability could cause literally anyone to have a strange episode like this. Not forgiving his actions whatsoever, but just saying, this guy likely needs help, indeed didn't he ask to be cuffed? More to this than meets the eye, and perhaps a lot of help and understanding of the complexities needed here imo. If he was of sound mind and did actually take something unlawful that would be a different matter entirely.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 14:38
  #84 (permalink)  
 
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/JetBlue_Flight_191

Food for thought for some of the holier-than-thou posters who have never put a foot wrong in their lives. Psychotic breaks occur in normal people. They are undetectable until they occur. And… wait for it… pilots are humans too!

He should be thoroughly examined by professionals and then be deemed fit for trial or treatment.

It can happen to anyone albeit extremely rarely.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 16:17
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Originally Posted by NSEU
Does the E175 have a lockout on the handles unless there is an actual fire and the engines are running (like a Boeing)? i.e. is there also an override button for the handles?
No, it doesn't. Pulling the fire handles would also disable the automatic ignition that comes on with a flameout. To restore you'd probably have to perform a full restart. Judging from the SIM that should be doable if you have a couple thousand feet remaining.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 16:19
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Originally Posted by MerseyView
CAA to ban all pilots from the flight-deck, on flights into and out of the UK?
Maybe a wake-up regarding single-pilot plans which would leave no one to combat a suicidal pilot for longer periods.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 19:29
  #87 (permalink)  
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BoeingDriver99 - I do not think that many people are saying that they never put a foot wrong in their lives. It would indeed seem to be the case that the pilot in question had some kind of psychotic episode, possibly assisted by magic mushrooms which were taken by his own volition. If that is the case then, like anyone who commits a crime whilst under the influence of illegal drugs, he will be held as liable for his actions as if he did them whilst in his normal mind. If, however, the magic mushrooms rumour turns out to be untrue and he had an unforeseen psychotic event, that is a different story. I would be surprised to see someone like that work in aviation again, but I would have considerably more sympathy for him than if he has taken illegal drugs, whether or not he knew the possible outcomes. Ultimately, our industry is all about protecting our passengers and people on the ground - the career prospects of our pilots and crew have to take a distant second place to that prime requirement.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 20:56
  #88 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
... Lies,damned lies and statistics ! Mark Twain ...
Actually it was one of your Prime Ministers (Disraeli) who remarked on the three kinds of lies, Clemens simply acknowledged this IIRC

Apologies for the interlude, back to the music...
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 21:59
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The origin of the phrase "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is unclear, but Mark Twain attributed it to Benjamin Disraeli[1]"Lies, damned lies, and statistics" is a phrase describing the persuasive power of statistics to bolster weak arguments, "one of the best, and best-known" critiques of applied statistics.[2] It is also sometimes colloquially used to doubt statistics used to prove an opponent's point.

The phrase was popularized in the United States by Mark Twain (among others), who attributed it to the British prime minister Benjamin Disraeli.[1] However, the phrase is not found in any of Disraeli's works and the earliest known appearances were years after his death. Several other people have been listed as originators of the quote, and it is often attributed to Twain himself.
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 01:19
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
I like mushrooms on my pizza, megan.
Should I be worried?
Definitely yes, a local case.

Had mushrooms pop up in my lawn one time, being an avid bush collector and consumer from childhoodI identified them as the bush non poisonace variety so cooked them up, became sick as a dog, conclusion made was the house was built on previous farm land and the mushrooms had taken up some chemical used in the farming process.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-66391325
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Old 27th Oct 2023, 03:39
  #91 (permalink)  
 
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New JS procedures.
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Old 28th Oct 2023, 00:51
  #92 (permalink)  
 
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The indepth analysis of how the activation of fire suppression effects flight, will be highlighted in the terror manuals under heading "what experienced pilots do to disable an aircraft"
Was it necessary to reveal the details of what he attempted to do immediately after the event when media and public interest is strongest?
A generic, "struggle in the cockpit" would have sufficed?


Mjb

Last edited by mickjoebill; 28th Oct 2023 at 06:04.
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Old 28th Oct 2023, 12:33
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Operating outside one's area of expertise

I have every respect for professional pilots. I am not one myself, and I am not qualified to comment on piloting skills. I have expertise in other areas, though.

I would be careful about commenting on the time elapsed between ingestion of hallucinogenic substances and their effect on mental states. As PTSD sufferers would attest, a single event some time in the past can have ramifications decades in the future, and significantly alter behaviour, sometimes based upon a trigger event which is inconsequential to other people.

The same is true for hallucinogens. Some people can have so-called 'flashbacks' to 'bad trips' years after ingestion of substances that alter perception and cognition, so assuming that someone's behaviour now indicates recent ingestion of hallucinogens would be a step too far.

It is unfortunate that anyone feels driven to self-medicate outside medical supervision. Society in general needs to improve attitudes towards mental health and provide better support for people with challenges in that area. Approximately one in four people will need treatment for a mental health condition at some point in their lives (WHO, 2001 - press release; WHO, 2001 - page with downloadable report, available in multiple languages).

For safety's sake, we need to allow people to be open about their mental health, and be able to seek, and receive appropriate help. Perhaps loss-of-income insurance as a result of a mental health diagnosis should be mandatory for flight-deck personnel?
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Old 30th Oct 2023, 00:27
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Maybe, we should just agree that pilots taking hallucinogens of any sort is likely not in the best interest of public safety…
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Old 30th Oct 2023, 02:40
  #95 (permalink)  
 
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mickjoebill...

Hear Hear!
To me, this thread (or portions thereof) is a perfect example of the hazards -- the downside perhaps -- of the internet.

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Old 30th Oct 2023, 04:10
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Originally Posted by Semreh
I have every respect for professional pilots. I am not one myself, and I am not qualified to comment on piloting skills. I have expertise in other areas, though.

I would be careful about commenting on the time elapsed between ingestion of hallucinogenic substances and their effect on mental states. As PTSD sufferers would attest, a single event some time in the past can have ramifications decades in the future, and significantly alter behaviour, sometimes based upon a trigger event which is inconsequential to other people.

The same is true for hallucinogens. Some people can have so-called 'flashbacks' to 'bad trips' years after ingestion of substances that alter perception and cognition, so assuming that someone's behaviour now indicates recent ingestion of hallucinogens would be a step too far.

It is unfortunate that anyone feels driven to self-medicate outside medical supervision. Society in general needs to improve attitudes towards mental health and provide better support for people with challenges in that area. Approximately one in four people will need treatment for a mental health condition at some point in their lives (WHO, 2001 - press release; WHO, 2001 - page with downloadable report, available in multiple languages).

For safety's sake, we need to allow people to be open about their mental health, and be able to seek, and receive appropriate help. Perhaps loss-of-income insurance as a result of a mental health diagnosis should be mandatory for flight-deck personnel?
Hear, hear.
I wanted to say much of this, but waited, hoping for someone more able to express it in suitable language. Thank you.
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Old 31st Oct 2023, 13:50
  #97 (permalink)  
 
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you cant tell

Originally Posted by MissChief
Looks like a very strange individual.

no, he looks like cool, fun guy
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Old 31st Oct 2023, 19:10
  #98 (permalink)  

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Semreh. I agree with what you are saying, but there is an important qualification. The person NEEDS TO KNOW they have a problem. Many mental health organisations say they know of people with problems, but can't help them.
My own case: I suffer from PTSD, but refused to accept what friends were telling me. It wasn't until one of my oldest friends said "PTSD", that I acknowledged it. I sought help, got it, and now, although not cured (there is no cure), I can manage it and live a normal life.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 00:57
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Originally Posted by B2N2
Really?
Based on what exactly?
A goofy picture during cruise, likely an empty reposition flight?
is that a knee behind him in that photo? A flight attendant knee perhaps? I’m just asking. It looks like a knee.
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Old 2nd Nov 2023, 19:15
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The Medical paradox in aviation.... something that needs to be very well discussed
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