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Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

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Jump seat pilot tries to shut down engines in-flight?

Old 25th Oct 2023, 06:23
  #61 (permalink)  
 
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CRY FOR HELP?!?!?
No, he just took psychoactive mushrooms and consciously boarded a plane in the cockpit. The twice he attempted to endanger a plane full of passengers.
If you want to do some crying formułek you call your family, friends, doctor, therapist or even HR if your company provides psychological support.
This case is NOT cry for help but murder attempt.
&
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 06:44
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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I have thought about posting on this subject for a day or two now as I have experienced a similar event.

My wife went from a normal person Managing a department at work to being restrained by five police officers in four days.

On the Friday she was fine. Saturday she talked about being videoed at work. This was normal for her job so I did not think any more about it.

Sunday she became somewhat irrational and I decided to take her to hospital for a check-up. She tried to leave the car at speed and I had to complete the journey with one hand on the seatbelt buckle to prevent her releasing it.

The hospital took her in for observation but she tried to leave in the early hours of Monday morning. Police were called and it took five officers to safely restrain her to allow hospital staff to medically cosh her.

I was called and we agreed to Section her and she was transferred to a secure hospital for her own safety.

The doctors stil do not have any idea what caused the breakdown. They said "we still do not understand most of the workings of the human brain".

This case brought it all back and I am so glad it turned out as well as it did.

Hopefully the individual concerned can be given the care he obviously needs to sort out his problems.

My wife will never work or drive again but the doctors have got her back to a condition where she can function well enough to life a fulfilling life and be safe and happy.

That will do me.

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Old 25th Oct 2023, 08:15
  #63 (permalink)  
 
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HUNBET

"These days of closing bases and having base in high cost of living places makes commuting desirable."
Too bad that doesn't work out for the ground crews
..

very good point !




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Old 25th Oct 2023, 09:00
  #64 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks for sharing, Ken X. A sobering read, a real eye-opener. I, for one, will be more alert for such signs from now on. I hope all goes well for you and yours.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 10:21
  #65 (permalink)  
 
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Jeez, so he was on "shrooms" . . .
I took some years ago when I was a student (Uni - not flight school) - damn near finished me - found later we'd taken far too many in one sitting.

I can't help thinking a short conversation with him would have revealed he was 'tripping" his proverbial knackers off.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 12:05
  #66 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
lonewolf
Humans are the weak link
itís NOT how I feel or want but PERHAPS it is a fact?
PS I flew auto land approaches on Vulcans 55 years ago!
PPS still would need good looking 4 ringers up front to give the pax confidence BUT reading this thread would that be a risk ?
Yes, I hear you, and I too flew with auto pilot functions as well, which are An Aid To The Pilot not a substitute for one. Any advocacy for pilotless aircraft hauling human beings around is IMO ill advised, and also antithetical to what PPRuNe's first two Ps stand for. OK, rant over.
Originally Posted by Dea Certe
Lone Wolf, most airlines do background checks and back in the day, 4-5 interviews and assessments. I am unaware of any FA sabotaging pilots or attempting to bring down an aircraft. Thereís a few incidents of pilots trying to takie down or attempting to take down a flight. I can think of two events top of mind. I believe there was a cargo flight with a pilot pax who acted out. Another was a non-US pilot who was being escorted back to base. . I know you know these, youíve been around for quite awhile. FAs take the safety of our passengers and crew the top priority.
Thank you.
Originally Posted by hr2pilot
"I didn't feel okay. It seemed like the pilots weren't paying attention to what was going on. They didn't... it didn't seem right," Emerson told police, according to the court documents. He later added "I pulled both emergency shut off handles because I thought I was dreaming and I just wanna wake up."
I think that he just signed his own career-change letter, right there. Glad nobody was harmed.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 13:06
  #67 (permalink)  
 
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An extraordinary incident (as far as I'm aware), and thankfully no one was harmed.

One can always hope that the abilities of the cabin crew members to take the several actions they were required to take would serve as a wake-up call to those among the traveling public who think nothing of severe misconduct toward flight attendants. One can always hope. (Actions to take the individual out of the flight deck and then until law enforcement officers took custody on the ground.)

Also, can't help wondering whether the incident will change any minds in Congress about provisions still in controversy in the pending FAA reauthorization legislation. Does the incident argue in favor of extending the retirement age, or against it? In favor of modifying the 1500-hour rule, or against it? I'm wondering probably only because I'm just SLF/attorney, and the incident, while quite significantly sobering, isn't relevant substantively. But still, it just might point out to the Congress the need to get reauthorization of FAA completed and signed into law, quickly now.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 15:23
  #68 (permalink)  
 
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Lonewolf 50

Re pilotless flight - I don’t think that you need to rant too much as we are both on the same side - however I googled the subject and it appears that pilotless flight will become a reality sometime in the future with troubleshooting and human decision making being done by ‘pilots ‘on the ground .

However the major obstacles of public acceptance and jamming have yet to be overcome so I don’t think that anyone should be presently concerned about their flying careers - especially as a big demand ( and shortage )for pilots in the near future is forecast.

I do know what Pp in PPRUNE stands for and maybe the subject shouldn’t be debated but burying your head in the sand is not a good option !

I saw in one publication that 80% of accidents are caused by human error ??
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 15:29
  #69 (permalink)  
 
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Emerson plead not guilty to all charges on Tuesday. I’m skeptical that the attempted murder charges will stick but I don’t know the specifics of Oregon law. I think he was overcharged by MCSO just to ensure he could be held in custody. Does Emerson have the financial resources to mount an effective insanity defense? Will his union assist?

HIs medical is dated 9/2023, which means he must have lied about his depression at that time. I think Trevor Jacob will be back in the cockpit before Joe Emerson.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 15:29
  #70 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Ken X
I have thought about posting on this subject for a day or two now as I have experienced a similar event.

My wife went from a normal person Managing a department at work to being restrained by five police officers in four days.

On the Friday she was fine. Saturday she talked about being videoed at work. This was normal for her job so I did not think any more about it.

Sunday she became somewhat irrational and I decided to take her to hospital for a check-up. She tried to leave the car at speed and I had to complete the journey with one hand on the seatbelt buckle to prevent her releasing it.

The hospital took her in for observation but she tried to leave in the early hours of Monday morning. Police were called and it took five officers to safely restrain her to allow hospital staff to medically cosh her.

I was called and we agreed to Section her and she was transferred to a secure hospital for her own safety.

The doctors stil do not have any idea what caused the breakdown. They said "we still do not understand most of the workings of the human brain".

This case brought it all back and I am so glad it turned out as well as it did.

Hopefully the individual concerned can be given the care he obviously needs to sort out his problems.

My wife will never work or drive again but the doctors have got her back to a condition where she can function well enough to life a fulfilling life and be safe and happy.

That will do me.

Thank you for sharing your experience. We need both compassion and security.
Hopefully, someone smart can decipher what happened to this man and achieve results as well as your beloved wife's.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 15:32
  #71 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
Lonewolf 50

Re pilotless flight - I donít think that you need to rant too much as we are both on the same side - however I googled the subject and it appears that pilotless flight will become a reality sometime in the future with troubleshooting and human decision making being done by Ďpilots Ďon the ground .

However the major obstacles of public acceptance and jamming have yet to be overcome so I donít think that anyone should be presently concerned about their flying careers - especially as a big demand ( and shortage )for pilots in the near future is forecast.

I do know what Pp in PPRUNE stands for and maybe the subject shouldnít be debated but burying your head in the sand is not a good option !

I saw in one publication that 80% of accidents are caused by human error ??
I suppose pilotless flight will happen eventually, and getting it to work under normal conditions is hard enough, but under abnormal conditions? They are not likely to spend enough money to make that happen. Likewise with single pilot operations with hundreds of pax.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 16:14
  #72 (permalink)  
 
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mahogany bob: "I saw in one publication that 80% of accidents are caused by human error ??"

Well. with
statistics you can argue any point, probably even that earth is flat...

If someone says that 80% of accidents are caused by human error, that is only a fraction of the truth, as most professional aviators know that for every accident caused by human error, there are multitudes of potential disasters averted by the very same humans, applying experience, thinking outside of the box, working together to solve issues arising. Most of these events go totally unnoticed by both the public and passengers... So I think we, as a profession, are quite safe in our employment for the foreseeable future.

Regards,
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 16:27
  #73 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
I saw in one publication that 80% of accidents are caused by human error ??
It is a meaningless statistic without clarification of what it means anyway. Aircraft are designed by humans, the individual components are designed and checked by humans, the software is designed by humans. Every accident is human error of some kind.

An aircraft with no pilot would just be eliminating a small part of the potential human error available, but also removing the possibility of overcoming different kinds of human error created in the software or hardware.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 18:20
  #74 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mahogany bob
Lonewolf 50
I saw in one publication that 80% of accidents are caused by human error ??
And if you automate all aircraft, 100% of the accidents with be caused by automation.
Aren't statistics wonderful
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 18:21
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Originally Posted by Dea Certe
Thereís a few incidents of pilots trying to takie down or attempting to take down a flight. I can think of two events top of mind. I believe there was a cargo flight with a pilot pax who acted out. Another was a non-US pilot who was being escorted back to base.
The one that sticks in my mind is the one where a pilot who had been declared unfit to work by a doctor managed to kill himself, 144 pax and 6 crew. And the one where a ground service agent stole an aircraft and killed himself. Begs the question if mental health issues are becoming more common, or if people are less aware of what's going on in their coworkers / friends lives and thus less likely to intervene.
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 18:23
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The automation errors will be pinned on the humans that designed the system. Isn't life wonderful?
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Old 25th Oct 2023, 23:45
  #77 (permalink)  
 
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Info grabbed from elsewhere.

He had taken the mushrooms 48 hours prior to the event in an attempt to treat of a long history of depression, the half-life of psilocybin (actually, of psilocin, the active metabolite of psilocybin) is said to be between two and three hours. So, after five half-lives (no more than about 15 hours), it’s 97% gone. So, it is unlikely that he was impaired by drug at the time of the incident.

Magic mushrooms have been touted as a promising therapy for depression, but clinical trials have only started recently.
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 03:23
  #78 (permalink)  
 
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I like mushrooms on my pizza, megan.
Should I be worried?
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 06:00
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
I like mushrooms on my pizza, megan.
Should I be worried?
Username checks out (in the context of this thread at least...)
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Old 26th Oct 2023, 09:04
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Originally Posted by BFSGrad
Emerson plead not guilty to all charges on Tuesday. Iím skeptical that the attempted murder charges will stick but I donít know the specifics of Oregon law. I think he was overcharged by MCSO just to ensure he could be held in custody. Does Emerson have the financial resources to mount an effective insanity defense? Will his union assist?
.
Heís also got 83 reckless endangerment charges against him. Those look like up to a year incarceration for first offence and often tagged to a DUI charge which may be where the magic mushrooms come into play. Under US law could the attempted murder charges be downgraded to attempted manslaughter or equivalent for diminished responsibility due mental state/depression etc?
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