Brit pilots working in the USA
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Methinks Lady S has acheived what we all desire far too quickly and didn't have to do the hard yards. I spent 18 years in the RHS out of Hamble - just the way the cookie crumbled. I joined BA behind many others from the schools, all of a similiar age. I might have been able to get a shorhaul command perhaps 18 months quicker, but that was it. Striaght to WB command though.
After 18 years at BA you've left it far too late to move to the US. You're interested in a larger salary, you won't get it in the 'seniority based' US for years. In another 18 years at a US legacy you'll be where you are today or ahead, having lived on a lower salary for years. Go to the ME or China, (it used to be CX too) for a mega salary but beware the T &Cs and labour laws - or lack of them.
That's my take on it. S
S
After 18 years at BA you've left it far too late to move to the US. You're interested in a larger salary, you won't get it in the 'seniority based' US for years. In another 18 years at a US legacy you'll be where you are today or ahead, having lived on a lower salary for years. Go to the ME or China, (it used to be CX too) for a mega salary but beware the T &Cs and labour laws - or lack of them.
That's my take on it. S
S
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Looks like I’m gonna have to be the one calling BS here. Unless Lady S’s 777 command was one of the protected Midland LH positions there’s no way she could have achieved any LH command in under 12 years in BA. It’s historically 20 years, purely seniority driven, and not usually coming any lower than 18.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Last edited by Plastic787; 6th Mar 2024 at 08:17.
Drifted off a bit but on time to Command in BA, I agree with all Hamsters and other joiners of the 60's. Time toi Command was about 20 years. That is why many of us left. There was a period when BA started franchises etc. I know of chaps who went off to Atlas out of somewhere in the Midlands on B747, had BA painted on the side and called themselves BA Captains. Those who joined as DEC FO were quickly upgraded. Same with the A320 franchises.
C'mon Lady S. Bit bored are we? Too many in this camp know quite a lot. 11 years to LHS ? Many doubting. BA Mainline- no chance. You appear to flip flop too at a rate that would make Sir Keir proud. One minute where off to the USA,, no probs anywhere, then, pursuaded by Prune to forget that swift Direct track to glory and focus on another very swift route in another National Legacy carrier. Probably speak French and know Macron personally.
My worry is the flip flop decision making, now settling on TRE because of money might have a factor on more serious decision making that is requitred in the real world of LHS operations.
Back to thread though. Of course, all hinges on having the right to live AND work in the US BEFORE you go chasing after the licence .
I did chase the USA dream and even looked at squeezing in through Canada but they were as daft as the Americans boiling down to the official take ; Look, get the right to live & work and if licenced, we will hire you. But Embassy came back with, No, get the job offer and we will then give you the visa ! No visa, no job. NO job, no visa. Er. I pulled out of negotiations.
Occasionally, there has been back-door, nudge,nudge, ways. I recall one advert in Flt Mag where some Californian Flight school wanted Instructors.. Visa, work-permit, FAA licencing, all provided. I know ONE who went. After several marriages, partnership breaks, almost bankrupt, he DID wind up with Delta. Had a nice address in Malibu and I am overcome with total envy, decades later. Right place, right time and boy did he take the risk and boy did it cost. Oooooooh but I HATE him !
C'mon Lady S. Bit bored are we? Too many in this camp know quite a lot. 11 years to LHS ? Many doubting. BA Mainline- no chance. You appear to flip flop too at a rate that would make Sir Keir proud. One minute where off to the USA,, no probs anywhere, then, pursuaded by Prune to forget that swift Direct track to glory and focus on another very swift route in another National Legacy carrier. Probably speak French and know Macron personally.
My worry is the flip flop decision making, now settling on TRE because of money might have a factor on more serious decision making that is requitred in the real world of LHS operations.
Back to thread though. Of course, all hinges on having the right to live AND work in the US BEFORE you go chasing after the licence .
I did chase the USA dream and even looked at squeezing in through Canada but they were as daft as the Americans boiling down to the official take ; Look, get the right to live & work and if licenced, we will hire you. But Embassy came back with, No, get the job offer and we will then give you the visa ! No visa, no job. NO job, no visa. Er. I pulled out of negotiations.
Occasionally, there has been back-door, nudge,nudge, ways. I recall one advert in Flt Mag where some Californian Flight school wanted Instructors.. Visa, work-permit, FAA licencing, all provided. I know ONE who went. After several marriages, partnership breaks, almost bankrupt, he DID wind up with Delta. Had a nice address in Malibu and I am overcome with total envy, decades later. Right place, right time and boy did he take the risk and boy did it cost. Oooooooh but I HATE him !
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Looks like I’m gonna have to be the one calling BS here. Unless Lady S’s 777 command was one of the protected Midland LH positions there’s no way she could have achieved any LH command in under 12 years in BA. It’s historically 20 years, purely seniority driven, and not usually coming any lower than 18.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Should be easy to check, don’t you Nigels have bid programmes that’ll show 777 capts with 18 years service.
Had coffee with a BA777 FO and they had the same opinion as Plastic.
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Looks like I’m gonna have to be the one calling BS here. Unless Lady S’s 777 command was one of the protected Midland LH positions there’s no way she could have achieved any LH command in under 12 years in BA. It’s historically 20 years, purely seniority driven, and not usually coming any lower than 18.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
Even if the talked about bulge of 200+ retirements a year is really coming up soon I’m still at least 6/7 years away from the most junior LH command (which lies around 1850 in new seniority numbers last I checked recently) and I’ve been in 8 years.
Someone would have to convince me otherwise that some exception has been made to what is normally a strictly seniority driven process. I’m aware of one ex midland management pilot who has achieved a LH command in under the timeframe quoted above.
Apologies for the thread drift.
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It could as well be now, although the number is actually lower. When I got mine it was a after 7 years 11 months 2 days. I hope that clarifies it. I don't care when others move on to the LHS, I focus on my job. There's plenty of aircraft coming in (18th A350-1000 just arrived) and expecting 18 (+24) B 777-9 which I can't wait to fly.
In any case, I'll probably be moving on to TRE by the time the 777-9 is in service
In any case, I'll probably be moving on to TRE by the time the 777-9 is in service
Also, in BA you don’t “choose” to go TRI>TRE. You apply for a training appointment and you have to get both tickets.
I joined in 2000 and took me 19 years to get a LH command.
I’ve spent the last 25 years living as an expat in the US&A. For the last 9 years, I’ve been at United and currently work at the training center in Denver, teaching on the 777. So, I’ve had a front seat view of the new hire training, particularly on the 777.
We’d give you an interview inside a week of applying. Not quite but your CV would move to the interview stack very very quickly. New hire assignments change from week to week. We had a huge amount of new hires being assigned to the 777 last year but that has dropped right off. So expecting the 777 as a new hire, is unlikely. More likely is the 737/320 as an FO or if it floats your boat, you can bid for a Captain position on either but still have to do about 9 months as an FO before actually sitting in the seat. Your experience will get you an interview but you still have to get the 121 experience in order to upgrade.
Flying a plane is flying a plane but operating in the US can be totally different from operating anywhere else in the world. We have former Captains from EK, EY, CX and other long haul operators from all over the world, who have joined over the last two years. Without exception they’ve not only brought a huge amount of experience to the operation but also, more importantly, a good attitude. Don’t come if you’re not able to accept that they do things their way and have done for decades. I can’t speak for other carriers but we are trying to make a concerted effort to become more ICAO compliant but it will take time. If anyone thinks they’re going to be able to join a US carrier, jump in the left seat of a WB and simply do things the way they did at their previous operator, they’re in for a very rude awakening. There is a cultural difference that you can’t fail to appreciate. I’m not aiming this at you LS but it’s a general comment for the peanut gallery.
At UAL the 777/787 are the most senior aircraft for the left seat. Captains are easily making mid to high $400’s at a minimum depending on their seniority within their respective fleet and how much they choose to fly. Currently, the most junior Captain on the 777 is about a 5000 number and we have about 16500 active pilots. Retirements really start ramping up this year and continue for about the next 6 years at a minimum, so anyone joining now will have to wait around 10 years to get the 777/787 as a Captain. If Boeing hadn’t completely c0cked up the 737 & 787 deliveries, this would probably drop by about 3 years.
I’d be surprised if it was any different at DAL in terms of getting a WB left seat. Especially as United has more WB than DAL and AA combined. You have to pay your dues with time and possibly luck with timing but seniority rules everything. There are no short cuts. Life is extremely good right now but as I tell the youngsters who’ve joined United in the last 3 years after only flying an RJ for a few years, this is unprecedented and could end in the blink of an eye. Don’t take it for granted.
We’d give you an interview inside a week of applying. Not quite but your CV would move to the interview stack very very quickly. New hire assignments change from week to week. We had a huge amount of new hires being assigned to the 777 last year but that has dropped right off. So expecting the 777 as a new hire, is unlikely. More likely is the 737/320 as an FO or if it floats your boat, you can bid for a Captain position on either but still have to do about 9 months as an FO before actually sitting in the seat. Your experience will get you an interview but you still have to get the 121 experience in order to upgrade.
Flying a plane is flying a plane but operating in the US can be totally different from operating anywhere else in the world. We have former Captains from EK, EY, CX and other long haul operators from all over the world, who have joined over the last two years. Without exception they’ve not only brought a huge amount of experience to the operation but also, more importantly, a good attitude. Don’t come if you’re not able to accept that they do things their way and have done for decades. I can’t speak for other carriers but we are trying to make a concerted effort to become more ICAO compliant but it will take time. If anyone thinks they’re going to be able to join a US carrier, jump in the left seat of a WB and simply do things the way they did at their previous operator, they’re in for a very rude awakening. There is a cultural difference that you can’t fail to appreciate. I’m not aiming this at you LS but it’s a general comment for the peanut gallery.
At UAL the 777/787 are the most senior aircraft for the left seat. Captains are easily making mid to high $400’s at a minimum depending on their seniority within their respective fleet and how much they choose to fly. Currently, the most junior Captain on the 777 is about a 5000 number and we have about 16500 active pilots. Retirements really start ramping up this year and continue for about the next 6 years at a minimum, so anyone joining now will have to wait around 10 years to get the 777/787 as a Captain. If Boeing hadn’t completely c0cked up the 737 & 787 deliveries, this would probably drop by about 3 years.
I’d be surprised if it was any different at DAL in terms of getting a WB left seat. Especially as United has more WB than DAL and AA combined. You have to pay your dues with time and possibly luck with timing but seniority rules everything. There are no short cuts. Life is extremely good right now but as I tell the youngsters who’ve joined United in the last 3 years after only flying an RJ for a few years, this is unprecedented and could end in the blink of an eye. Don’t take it for granted.
All fact and no conjecture.
Thread could have been closed after this answer.
With the attitude that you hold a Command now and should deserve a Command in the US you’ll get roasted……roasted.
FWIW I've been lurking for a few days, eyebrows steadily rising...
If I've got the sums right the claim is command on the T7 at BA with 8 years mainline seniority in BA in around 2013, plus or minus..AFAIK that could only have been achieved via a management route.
I was on that fleet at the time and also for a long time after and any such appointment grossly out of seniority would have been the subject of much discussion...(it certainly was when a very junior management appointment happened on the 744)....never heard a squeak about any such happening on the T7.
Being a long term French resident I'm not sure about that easing into AF is really that simple…
Still, never say never, somehow all could be legit.(as mentioned up thread something along the lines of a consequence of the Midland deal) .. in any event it's got people talking....
If I've got the sums right the claim is command on the T7 at BA with 8 years mainline seniority in BA in around 2013, plus or minus..AFAIK that could only have been achieved via a management route.
I was on that fleet at the time and also for a long time after and any such appointment grossly out of seniority would have been the subject of much discussion...(it certainly was when a very junior management appointment happened on the 744)....never heard a squeak about any such happening on the T7.
Being a long term French resident I'm not sure about that easing into AF is really that simple…
Still, never say never, somehow all could be legit.(as mentioned up thread something along the lines of a consequence of the Midland deal) .. in any event it's got people talking....
Last edited by wiggy; 7th Mar 2024 at 07:42.
Wiggs ; Agreed. Morning lurk-about fun but I fear for the youthful & naive who might just dash over with Mum & Dad's 20 grand to give to some flightschool who promise visas and jobs after training. Care too much I guess. Naive too. Had a mate in Air Cal or Cal-air or whatever in 1982 and told me that things were different in the USA and they did things very differently. He advised I pop over to LAX and just bang on the Chief Pilots door ("They love that", he said ). I did, stayed with Bro-in Law who lived in Laurel Canyon & got his Green card and was ready to sponsor me . CP Sec was luvley. Told me to go away.
Don't think we will hear from Lady S again but he, she, er, whaaaaat, had a larf..
Ooooops, there goes the ....Master Warning, Troll Alert..........Ok, YOU have !
Don't think we will hear from Lady S again but he, she, er, whaaaaat, had a larf..
Ooooops, there goes the ....Master Warning, Troll Alert..........Ok, YOU have !
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How is joining AF any different than any other legacy carrier? There will be choking on baguettes by the union if you could walk into a DEC job on the 777.
As a side note, I believe their language requirements are pretty strict, with some Belgians struggling to pass the test.
As a side note, I believe their language requirements are pretty strict, with some Belgians struggling to pass the test.
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That covers a lot of territory. For ballpark numbers from US carriers, see this website. They may or may not be up to the minute but it'll give you an idea:
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/legacy