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Pilot loads baggage

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Pilot loads baggage

Old 1st Jun 2022, 12:52
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Originally Posted by Sleeve Wing View Post
Tenerife. 2.am. Loaders shift change time. Passengers already boarded
Getting late to get back and F/O noticed 3 or 4 baggage trolleys at the aircraft but nothing happening.
Went down and found 3 loaders sleeping in the hold, laying on the rest of the baggage !
Kicked 'em off. Then, Including the cabin staff, loaded the rest ourselves and eventually got back home just inside FTL.
Sometimes, needs must ........but I wouldn't want to be a full-time loader !
So the passengers were onboard and the cabin crew was loading baggage.

Did you think about the regulation, requiring special training, in case of boarding with less than the required cabin crew members (1 crew member per 50 pax seats)?

I hope at least you that you and the F/O, were not out of the flight deck at the same time

Interesting to promote on-time performance instead of safety and more interesting to admit it in a professional forum.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 13:00
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Location: Dublin
Event: 2 hour delay.
Problem: A passenger wanted to disembark because his trip was no longer worthwhile.
Attempted solution: call after call to ground handling asking for someone to attend the aircraft and escort the individual back to the gate.
Final solution: After no response from handling, cabin crew escorted the individual the 50 yds to the gate.
Outcome: one satisfied passenger; an airport authority that reacted as if war had just been declared on the Republic.
Long-term Outcome: never meddled with airport and handling jobsworths again.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 14:10
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Originally Posted by pilot-737 View Post
So the passengers were onboard and the cabin crew was loading baggage.

Did you think about the regulation, requiring special training, in case of boarding with less than the required cabin crew members (1 crew member per 50 pax seats)?

I hope at least you that you and the F/O, were not out of the flight deck at the same time

Interesting to promote on-time performance instead of safety and more interesting to admit it in a professional forum.
You must be fun to fly with!
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:31
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Originally Posted by t-bag View Post
You must be fun to fly with!
I don’t know if it is so much fun to fly with me, as I don’t offer gym activities to my crew, during flight duty, like other captains apparently do.

Even if I start one day, I think that I would chose aerobics instead of weight training.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:35
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Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:48
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Jobsworth airports weren't restricted to the world of civil aviation. Back in 1978, 7 of us had been at Goose Bay for 9 days with all the necessary cold weather clothing, flying clothing etc. etc. and were finally leaving the place in mid-Dec eager to get back to RAF Scampton. We were told that we had to be back by a certain time because Scampton would be closing then... That looked doable, but we were delayed on departure for some reason or other. We needed it to stay open for an additional 15 min, but despite the pleas over HF, they wouldn't agree and we were given a Grade One diversion to Waddington...and were told that transport would be waiting to take us to Scampton.

When we landed, all that was there to meet us was a Morris van (about the size of a Sherpa). After loading all our bags (7 crew plus all their kit) and squeezing on board, we were taken over to the Operations block and told that we had to get off and get on the 32 seat coach which had actually been sent from Scampton... Why couldn't it have met us at the aircraft, you may well ask? Because the driver didn't have an airfield driving permit for Waddington. Why couldn't a driver with such a permit have brought the bus to us? Because they were Waddington and it was a Scampton vehicle.....and never the twain shall meet, it seems.

The following day the Boss said he was glad that we were finally back - but where was our Vulcan? We told him, to which he replied "Go and get it...NOW!". As I was going on leave, another co-pilot was joe'd; off they went through the Lincoln traffic, generated the mighty steed, took off, left the wheels down, skirted Lincoln and landed 5 min later.

All because the air traffic jobsworths had refused to stay open for a mere 15 min. I wonder how much tax payers' money that wasted?

Last edited by BEagle; 1st Jun 2022 at 20:03.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:49
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Originally Posted by hoistop View Post
Does anyone know what was the original fu....up in this story, that caused passengers to disembark and had to come back next day for another try? If my holiday is shortened for two days for some organizational crap/money saving meaasure ... I would be VERY angry! And why the co-pilot had to go and help the handlers? Such crap service sheds bad impression not only to specific airline (guilty or not), but to entire aviation industry, as any reasonable man would consider it as totally unreliable means of transport. We all lose with such events.
Whenever I heard that my airline told passengers that flight was delayed due to "technical reasons" when airplane was technically OK (did happen with some dispatchers/crews) I went bezerk as I felt it is very unfair to offload it to maintenence (which I was part of) when true reason was much more intricate and truth was concealed from passengers. Any passenger would consider "technical reasons" as an aircraft maintenance issue. And "operational reasons" can mean almost anything. If I am in MAN on this flight, I would demand an honest explanation why and what really happened.
Original flight was on a leased B757 (some Spanish company). Passengers all boarded about 07:45 and due to go at 07:55. At 11:00 baggage hadn't been loaded so captain said they needed to be somewhere else, and asked everybody to get off. Chaos as nobody from TUI there to meet the passengers. Passengers eventually notified of cancellation by text, and told to collect bags. Bags didn't arrive for a further 3 hours.

Flight re-arranged for 13:15 the following day, this time on a B737-800. Fewer seats, so TUI just notified people that had bought "flight only" that their flights were cancelled again. Flight eventually left about 16:15, with at least 15 empty seats.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 17:51
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Originally Posted by Right Hand Thread View Post
Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?
I'm sure it does, OTOH at some airports the result where would be exactly as SWBKCB describe.

Even if you survived that hiccup some hi viz clad manager would be along asking questions about whether you had attended the appropriate weight lifting course and whether you were wearing safety boots........
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 18:00
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Originally Posted by Right Hand Thread View Post
Happens every day in the bizjet world, what's all the fuss about?
Maybe if you are on biz jet you don’t realize the airline ops implications:

-Responsibilities of the cabin crew during an emergency(fire), with pax onboard, while they are out of the cabin loading baggage.

-Compensation of a cabin crew, should an injury occur during loading(back injury, fall from the loading belt, injury on the apron from a vehicle etc). Don’t forget, the ground staff is insured, as they have had initial and recurrent training regarding their specific duties and they are using special equipment(safety boots).

-Pax compensation, in case his baggage falls off the belt / cargo hold height.

Did you think about the implications on human performance?

It’s different to load 5 bags on a Biz Jet and completely different story to load a 737 or 320, especially when you are close to your FTL limits for your next landing.
What would be the result of additional fatigue to a crew already flying close to their max duty ?



If a captain asks from his crew to perform duties not included in their job description, by the same token, in the event of a ground staff strike, let us take responsibility for refueling the aircraft.

My advice: Just sign a good liability insurance before you try the last one.

Last edited by pilot-737; 1st Jun 2022 at 19:32.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 18:19
  #30 (permalink)  
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I would like to see a few CEOs and Financial WhatSits loading baggage. THAT would be newsworthy.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 18:36
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Arrived Glasgow in a Trident from Heathrow. Captain announced that the baggage handlers had started a lighning strike whilst we were en-route so would a few of us volunteer to unload the bags. Up into the hold I went and found 4 bags at one end of the hold and my tandem bicycle at the other end. The only problem was getting back into the terminal building!
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 19:30
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Beamer....... I agree.....
I recall unloading my 757 of Air Dos Mil in Lanzarote, at some time in the late 90s when there was a loaders go-slow there. We even roped in a few pax to help unload as I recall. However, the aircraft left for the UK leaving the homebound pax baggage still at ACE as that was the way agreed to not upset the local unions. The go-slow only lasted a day so the dirty-washing bags came home 24hrs later.

Last edited by Jetset 88; 1st Jun 2022 at 19:32. Reason: 1x typo error
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 20:07
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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It's fun because my chief pilot specifically told me today we were strongly discouragef from doing this.
if we fall in the stairs, we will lack a pilot for 3 weeks to gain just 2-3 minutes
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 22:23
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Yes us Bizjets do it several times a day, but for up to 10 people, not over 100.
Real kudos to the Simon for doing this, it shows a great deal of compassion for the customers, crew and even the company.

I have been told that the CEO of Jet2 is regularly seen on the ramp in the early hours with his staff.
Some of you probably don't care, but for his staff that is a welcome boost and a lesser seen quality in aviation management of 'Leadership.'
I would work for them if that was my CEO, not the usual spiv we see in biz jets.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 22:59
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Back in 98 during the Ryanair baggage handler strike in Dublin all males where called out of the Heead office to do baggage handling, and I was on shift with amongst others O'Leary, Eddie Wilson and the Chief Pilot. The pilot of one of the planes being loaded came over to the Chief Pilot and said; Remember back in the days when we where both new in Ryanair, I am a captain now and you are still loading the bags. Before that all new Ryanair chiefs had to do a stint in ground ops to get a feel for the airline.
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Old 1st Jun 2022, 23:54
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Bizjets aren't always as easy as they seem. During a porters strike I was amongst the salaried staff brought in to load baggage - and freight. I foolishly volunteered to load a Westwind which was heading north for a little island with a copper mine. How difficult could it be to load baggage for a handful of pax? Besides I knew the pilots and was eager to help them. Unfortunately no pax today - 'twas a freighter. For the better part of an hour I struggled alone to shoehorn all manner of freight, seemingly ranging from anvils to eiderdowns, into that tiny cabin. Mind you I did succeed in redefining the term "volumetrically availed", albeit while not exactly adhering to a precision timing schedule. Meanwhile the two sympathetic pilots stood by tapping their feet while frequently glancing nervously at their watches. They were itching to help but that would have started trench warfare with the unions. As I recall it was high summer too.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 01:32
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 05:02
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I once witnessed a skipper carry an elderly & frail woman up the front steps of a 737 as there was no ambi-lift available. Cheers all around once she was seated and off we went.

If he had slipped and dropped her he could have killed/injured her/himself and the cheers would have turned to jeers and he'd be out of a job/career. Risk versus reward/Cost-benefit analysis anyone?

Plus for all the pilots saying 'good on
em; it's getting a job done' ; you would be equally happy if your union went on strike for a cause you believed in and the airline brought in qualified crew to replace you whilst you were on strike? That would be the same thing right?
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 05:03
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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I once went down and carried a wheelchair back up to the aircraft as the Groundstaff refused saying Health and Safety prevented them doing it. 2 disciplinary meetings later and I will never offer my support again, just off to the hotel for the night with me.
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Old 2nd Jun 2022, 05:52
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As a professional pilot why would you ever risk injury and the possibility of an extended period without pay to load passengers bags ?


That makes no sense at all
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