Pilot loads baggage
because most of us aren't made of match sticks.
stilton, When visiting Tripoli at the start of the Six Day War when the Algerian air force was ferrying fighter aircraft through there to help the Egyptians. The authorities refused us permission to unload and load the holds, and surrounded us with armed soldiers to stop us. Eventually we managed to persuade them to let us go and we threw everything from the holds of our VC10 out onto the tarmac, loaded the bags of the uncoming pax, started up and got the hell out of the place before they changed their minds. It was a case of all hands to the pumps!
I have seen CEO's do this, as well as serving drinks/cart run etc. But ONLY if a camera is around.
"Before that all new Ryanair chiefs had to do a stint in ground ops to get a feel for the airline."
Years ago I shared an office with a guy who'd worked at Mars i Slough as a student.
he said Ol Mr Mars quite commonly turned up from the USA without warning and could be found operating some new or recalcitrant bit of machinery on the production line to "find out just how it's going"
And of course the guy who founded IKEA who used to book his own hotels as he could find the cheapest ones to stay in close to the office - Travlelodge or Premier Inn in the UK were his favourites
Years ago I shared an office with a guy who'd worked at Mars i Slough as a student.
he said Ol Mr Mars quite commonly turned up from the USA without warning and could be found operating some new or recalcitrant bit of machinery on the production line to "find out just how it's going"
And of course the guy who founded IKEA who used to book his own hotels as he could find the cheapest ones to stay in close to the office - Travlelodge or Premier Inn in the UK were his favourites
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Bad idea
In my opinion he should never do so.
Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.
There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.
Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.
EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.
Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.
Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.
I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.
Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.
There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.
Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.
EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.
Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.
Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.
I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.
Many years ago I was co-pilot of a flt divertrd from Luton to Heathrow. The ramp agent informed us that with a lot of diversions it would be hours before the bags would be unloaded. Captain turned to me and said "We could make a start, are you game for it?" Before I could say anything, the rampie said "If you touch a bag, the baggage handler's union will black the aircraft, and it will be here for a week.". We headed for our taxi back to base.
Years later I was a captain with Ryanair during the handler's strike, and as Viking said, saw M O'L loading bags with half the office staff of Ryanair.
Years later I was a captain with Ryanair during the handler's strike, and as Viking said, saw M O'L loading bags with half the office staff of Ryanair.
6 years in GA unloading and loading was the job , flying was the easy bit . Regionals and the loader was the life of the party so we helped him after last sector so we all got to the bar earlier . Airline level is full of politics but I’ll pickup up bag that’s fallen off a trolley or loader and hand it to someone . If I had to load the belly of a NB I’d do it and if I got injured it be twisting in a seat or retrieving my nav bag a few minutes after the last bag was loaded .
I’d never cross a line though .
I’d never cross a line though .
Also cleaning the aircraft and stocking it as well, although that normally is the domain of the Cabin Crew.
Having said that, in an airline...maybe not, but good on him for doing it.
Last edited by Brian Pern; 2nd Jun 2022 at 17:04.
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https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/...out&li=AAnZ9Ug
Had to say this makes me smile.
At Liverpool some time back I was walking back up the ramp with a colleague.
We came across a Ryan Air pilot loading his own aircraft.
"Need a hand there captain said my mate"
Cue the unusual sight of a Ryan Air 737 being loaded by the captain and two Easyjet engineers.
Of such things memories are made..
Had to say this makes me smile.
At Liverpool some time back I was walking back up the ramp with a colleague.
We came across a Ryan Air pilot loading his own aircraft.
"Need a hand there captain said my mate"
Cue the unusual sight of a Ryan Air 737 being loaded by the captain and two Easyjet engineers.
Of such things memories are made..
Got a call in the Hotel 'where are you' oops all 4 slept in. Now way we could go without bfast so even later. Day went well until some German outfit (LTU?) sent in a A310
and we got asked to offload, No chance as we couldn't even reach the doors
Thread Starter
In my opinion he should never do so.
Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.
There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.
Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.
EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.
Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.
Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.
I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.
Aviation it’s not what it used to be anymore because of these things.
There will be no better time to push for a better working conditions and salary, it’s now when everybody struggled when we have a chance.
Everybody has his role, a pilot is there to fly the aircraft and to ensure the flight goes safely. If there is a lack of ground staff which triggers delays and caos it’s the solely responsibility of the airlines for not paying enough to the ground handling services or for not having their own staff under a permanent contract.
EU261 seems to be the only way airlines step aside of the peanuts contracts, don’t help them for the sake of a facebook post or a goodwill from a manager.
Holidays and air travel is a LUXURY, not a right in any country constitution (may be the British will consider so but…) so if someone wants to travel in an airplane, the price should be in accordance with occidental working conditions and not slavery, therefore if there is no staff, it’s due to the industry not being attractive and low attrition.
Anytime this happens, take a breath, make coffee, refuse to work on discretion and report it.
I am shock to see how the pilots will humiliate themselves to be in a piece of metal tube for peanuts.
I would be truly offended to be in a job where there is poential to earn over £100k a year and retire on a plus £1million pension.
As one of our T.R.E's said recently.
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!
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Typical
I wish to be humiliated as well.
I would be truly offended to be in a job where there is poential to earn over £100k a year and retire on a plus £1million pension.
As one of our T.R.E's said recently.
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!
I would be truly offended to be in a job where there is poential to earn over £100k a year and retire on a plus £1million pension.
As one of our T.R.E's said recently.
How many jobs are there where you spend all day sitting on your arse and looking out of the window for this sort of money!!!!
I can talk about working 20 days on late reports including weekends for those with kids and about fatigue and night flying. I never though that becoming a pilot I would still feel like at the bottom of the rat race.
You can always compare yourself against Cuban pilots of course.
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Either you are not a professional pilot and you try to underestimate the profession, or you are one of those who do nothing during the flight (line training for new pilots, briefing for abnormals, wx for alternate airports, fuel checks etc). Then yes I agree, loading some baggage will help you to get out of your boredom especially on cloudy days.
I also feel so sorry for the Captains of the ships, who spend months looking out of the window and do not even have the opportunity to load some baggage for the salaries they are getting.
As I have worked in the cargo section of the airport before I started flying, I respect the right of my colleagues to strike, in order to avoid further degradation of their working conditions, and I also understand that if I do the work on their behalf (to avoid delays due to lack of personnel), the result will be a reduction in staff for the same number of flights.
Thread Starter
Reading the above I conclude that:
Either you are not a professional pilot and you try to underestimate the profession, or you are one of those who do nothing during the flight (line training for new pilots, briefing for abnormals, wx for alternate airports, fuel checks etc). Then yes I agree, loading some baggage will help you to get out of your boredom especially on cloudy days.
I also feel so sorry for the Captains of the ships, who spend months looking out of the window and do not even have the opportunity to load some baggage for the salaries they are getting.
As I have worked in the cargo section of the airport before I started flying, I respect the right of my colleagues to strike, in order to avoid further degradation of their working conditions, and I also understand that if I do the work on their behalf (to avoid delays due to lack of personnel), the result will be a reduction in staff for the same number of flights.
Either you are not a professional pilot and you try to underestimate the profession, or you are one of those who do nothing during the flight (line training for new pilots, briefing for abnormals, wx for alternate airports, fuel checks etc). Then yes I agree, loading some baggage will help you to get out of your boredom especially on cloudy days.
I also feel so sorry for the Captains of the ships, who spend months looking out of the window and do not even have the opportunity to load some baggage for the salaries they are getting.
As I have worked in the cargo section of the airport before I started flying, I respect the right of my colleagues to strike, in order to avoid further degradation of their working conditions, and I also understand that if I do the work on their behalf (to avoid delays due to lack of personnel), the result will be a reduction in staff for the same number of flights.
In English we have an expression called "tongue in cheek" My tongue was firmly in cheek for my last post.
No sense of humour, ericferret.
Imagine having to spend the day with such a starchy skipper. He knows all the rules but doesn't apparently recognise the sheer joy of competently operating his aeroplane with a happy crew, no matter what..........
Imagine having to spend the day with such a starchy skipper. He knows all the rules but doesn't apparently recognise the sheer joy of competently operating his aeroplane with a happy crew, no matter what..........
Only half a speed-brake
So the people who opine against the reflex reaction of offering a hand freely at all times are not social enough to be given professional respect.
Glad that one is sorted and the thread can be put to rest.
Glad that one is sorted and the thread can be put to rest.
Last edited by FlightDetent; 3rd Jun 2022 at 12:05.
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ericferret
Indeed, I did not connect you with the initial post. I apologize if I misunderstood the sense of what you wrote.
Sleeve Wing
Is there any objective argument on our subject, other than assumptions about my person?
I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but my definition of a “happy crew” does not include loading luggage at 0200 am just before the last leg.
Indeed, I did not connect you with the initial post. I apologize if I misunderstood the sense of what you wrote.
Sleeve Wing
Is there any objective argument on our subject, other than assumptions about my person?
I'm sorry to dissapoint you, but my definition of a “happy crew” does not include loading luggage at 0200 am just before the last leg.
I suppose how far you are prepared to go to help out depends on much goodwill you have towards your employer. I have none whatsoever so I fly the aircraft safely from A to B and make sure that I and the crew have as nice a day as possible. Anything else, no thanks.
Last edited by Max Angle; 4th Jun 2022 at 10:29.
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Few years ago SAS flight arrival ARN remote parking stand, no baggage loaders around due to whatever problems. The Cpt and FO went to offload it themselves along with a male FA, pretty remarkable for a heavily unionised carrier.
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As SLF I have been reading this thread with interest.
I find a useful tool for looking at this kind of situation to be what I have heard called the "ethical square". It is a box with "people" in the centre; the four sides are "the law", "motivation"; "the situation at hand", and "consequences".
The idea is that good decisions are ones that focus on the intrinsic value of people and that take into account the four sides. The "law" can be company regs, a national law, a religious law, or any other form of written code. It is there, but it alone will not help to determine the best outcome. As someone once said, the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The sides I think are the hardest to factor in when considering a decision are "motivation" (it's hard to be really sure of one's own motivation) and "consequences" - we cannot foresee them all, and we must not overlook the consequences of *inaction* either.
A final thing about this square is that the outcome from one instance cannot be held up as a precedent or justification.
Tl;dr: it's impossible to generalise from the actions of this pilot, but it made for a fun social media post.
I find a useful tool for looking at this kind of situation to be what I have heard called the "ethical square". It is a box with "people" in the centre; the four sides are "the law", "motivation"; "the situation at hand", and "consequences".
The idea is that good decisions are ones that focus on the intrinsic value of people and that take into account the four sides. The "law" can be company regs, a national law, a religious law, or any other form of written code. It is there, but it alone will not help to determine the best outcome. As someone once said, the Sabbath is made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
The sides I think are the hardest to factor in when considering a decision are "motivation" (it's hard to be really sure of one's own motivation) and "consequences" - we cannot foresee them all, and we must not overlook the consequences of *inaction* either.
A final thing about this square is that the outcome from one instance cannot be held up as a precedent or justification.
Tl;dr: it's impossible to generalise from the actions of this pilot, but it made for a fun social media post.
I think the issue is many of us that have been in the industry for a while recognise the danger of doing such things to help,out. It won’t be long before the pilots will be required to load and unload pax bags as part of their duties. I’m all for helping out here and there if I get the relevant pay for doing so. I’d also like the H&S training and top cover in case of injury.
I won’t hold my breath. I’ve no wish to “help out” in order to make O’Leary richer.
I won’t hold my breath. I’ve no wish to “help out” in order to make O’Leary richer.
