BA wheelie 777 @heathow
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 1,501
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
We had a pilot like this in our company. Every landing was performed like this. 737. He was the only one who knew how to land a 737, or so he claimed. Ex fighter pilot. That is how it was/is done on the F-16.
It worked until he aerobraked the tail into the runway.
It took him 20 years or so, but he got there in the end.
It worked until he aerobraked the tail into the runway.
It took him 20 years or so, but he got there in the end.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: USA
Posts: 2,524
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
PPRuNE is a funny place. Whenever somebody goes into the ground nose first, killing everyone onboard, there's always excuses. They were fatigued, they were startled, they encountered something they'd never seen in the sim... "Stop blaming the pilots"
But when someone does a perfectly safe landing, never once losing elevator authority and setting the nosewheel down perfectly smoothly, the lynch mob is out in full force because the crew didn't follow standard procedures. I'd rather fly with people who demonstrate positive control of their aircraft and break rules than people who follow the SOPs but get everyone killed.
But when someone does a perfectly safe landing, never once losing elevator authority and setting the nosewheel down perfectly smoothly, the lynch mob is out in full force because the crew didn't follow standard procedures. I'd rather fly with people who demonstrate positive control of their aircraft and break rules than people who follow the SOPs but get everyone killed.
Safety was never compromised. He/she likely had fun. What's the big deal?
*I'm not a 777 pilot
I now see this is on spectators balcony so maybe there is a different focus. But I was interested that nobody picked up on my earlier post that under certain circumstances the aircraft has a natural tendency to pitch up after landing. I had a quick look for examples and was reminded of a tail strike with a Chinese 777 in Amsterdam as well as numerous incidents with other Boeing twin jets. In this case all went well and for the spotters it looked good. But there are reasons this technique is not encouraged. Interestingly I also found a thread on Pprune about ten years ago describing this effect.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spoilers deploy, weight on wheels obviously doing it's job (ground air switch if you want the correct term!)
All braking wheels working just fine, thrust reverse working just fine. Directional control still available from the rudder. No loss of braking action on the longest runway in the south east. Probably been cleared to take a very late exit as the traffic is low at Heathrow at the moment so had the full 3882m available. Fly the nose down, admittedly takes a fair bit of back stick at lower speeds. Continue. Some of these big jets are landing very, very light. Sometimes the 'normal' amount of back pressure holds the nose up a bit longer.
No one will be 'up in front of management' for what was a perfectly fine landing.
All braking wheels working just fine, thrust reverse working just fine. Directional control still available from the rudder. No loss of braking action on the longest runway in the south east. Probably been cleared to take a very late exit as the traffic is low at Heathrow at the moment so had the full 3882m available. Fly the nose down, admittedly takes a fair bit of back stick at lower speeds. Continue. Some of these big jets are landing very, very light. Sometimes the 'normal' amount of back pressure holds the nose up a bit longer.
No one will be 'up in front of management' for what was a perfectly fine landing.
Would the flight data recording actually monitor the point of nosewheel touchdown compared to mainwheel touchdown and flag it according to the RWY length in the database? There must be a great many more important target inputs and this particular parameter would seem to be somewhat frivolous,
Commercial aircraft record mountains of data, mostly it is automatically processed to flag events that meet certain criteria or used when investigating reported incidents.
Spoilers deploy, weight on wheels obviously doing it's job (ground air switch if you want the correct term!)
All braking wheels working just fine, thrust reverse working just fine. Directional control still available from the rudder. No loss of braking action on the longest runway in the south east. Probably been cleared to take a very late exit as the traffic is low at Heathrow at the moment so had the full 3882m available. Fly the nose down, admittedly takes a fair bit of back stick at lower speeds. Continue. Some of these big jets are landing very, very light. Sometimes the 'normal' amount of back pressure holds the nose up a bit longer.
No one will be 'up in front of management' for what was a perfectly fine landing.
All braking wheels working just fine, thrust reverse working just fine. Directional control still available from the rudder. No loss of braking action on the longest runway in the south east. Probably been cleared to take a very late exit as the traffic is low at Heathrow at the moment so had the full 3882m available. Fly the nose down, admittedly takes a fair bit of back stick at lower speeds. Continue. Some of these big jets are landing very, very light. Sometimes the 'normal' amount of back pressure holds the nose up a bit longer.
No one will be 'up in front of management' for what was a perfectly fine landing.
Trying to stick to Boeing advice kept me out of the office at BA and off youtube for over 30 years.
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You may well be right, though IMHO since even I could "grease" the nosewheel onto the runway on a 777 using the FCTM technique so I'm still of the " what's the point" opinion..
Trying to stick to Boeing advice kept me out of the office at BA and off youtube for over 30 years.
Trying to stick to Boeing advice kept me out of the office at BA and off youtube for over 30 years.
Absolutely right. Kept me out of trouble for many years! You are only as good as your last landing! I left trying stupid things in stupidly fast things behind many years ago.
I do seem to remember that N/W touchdown isn't a hard coded switch. It shows up as a spike on the landing data g-loading printout IIRC.
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Derbyshire, England.
Posts: 4,094
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Way back in the mists of time Davis, in his book, "Handling the Big Jets" said that the only aircraft to benefit from aerodynamic breaking was a delta wing and I think gave the Vulcan as an example.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But when someone does a perfectly safe landing, never once losing elevator authority and setting the nosewheel down perfectly smoothly, the lynch mob is out in full force because the crew didn't follow standard procedures. I'd rather fly with people who demonstrate positive control of their aircraft and break rules than people who follow the SOPs but get everyone killed.
By the way, re the touchdown, the 777 is ridiculously easy to land smoothly. You just wait for "30" then pull back a tad. Truck tilt does the rest.
As a TRI/TRE on the 777 with more than a few years experience on type (all Models except the -900) this is definitely how 'NOT ' to do it. If anyone was silly enough to do this during a check it would be an instant 'Fail'. When the aircraft runs out of elevator authority it will subject the NLG to a 'G' loading more than it is designed for, The FCTM may not be 'FAA Approved' however it is 'Boeing for Dummies' and you would need a very good reason not to follow its recommendations.
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is plainly obvious to anyone who has flown the 777 or similar that elevator authority is lost at the end of this guy's amazing wheely. You can see this from the rate of de-rotation. Some have seen (and felt) this from the cockpit and so can judge it even if you cannot. Not sure why you would say he never lost elevator authority when he obviously did. As for your other comment, I guess it's a good thing that attitude has been erased from the big airlines of the world.
By the way, re the touchdown, the 777 is ridiculously easy to land smoothly. You just wait for "30" then pull back a tad. Truck tilt does the rest.
By the way, re the touchdown, the 777 is ridiculously easy to land smoothly. You just wait for "30" then pull back a tad. Truck tilt does the rest.
I don't think he's lost elevator authority or that he planted the n/w. Not agreeing it should be done routinely!
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Am more of the opinion that this was unintentional. I did the very same (only once) on a similar type (747-8) landing no autobrake, lightweight, idle reverse onto a very long runway when we had to vacate at the end. I was a new FO at the time and remember thinking the nose just stayed in the landing attitude until about 80kts then I rather luckily put the nose down smoothly, was certainly not intentional!
Join Date: May 2002
Location: uk
Posts: 337
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: London
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
......and that is why this forum has lost credibility.
Social media allows any enthusiast to make comment on technical issues that they’re not qualified to comment on. In some cases, not necessarily this one, that same comment can encourage, validate, or endorse others to emulate similar actions or behaviour. In all walks of life and regardless of your profession, people will be influenced by others.
In aviation, we train people to influence others in a good way. They’re called instructors and they’re a controlled influence.
Tom from Croydon isn’t an instructor or a subject matter expert. Perhaps he’s never flown before but he pulls a mean wheelie on his motorbike. Yet half the thread is full of unqualified gibberish from the likes of Tom (and sadly some ‘qualified’ people that should know better).
A cut and paste from the FCTM says it all.
If you’re not qualified to make comment good or bad, then don’t. By all means ask a question and if you’re qualified to answer it, do so.
If we can’t respect the first P in PPrune then the forum may as well be renamed Parka Pilots Rumour Network. That’s not a slight on the forum itself, but the contributors.
Pointless rant over...
Social media allows any enthusiast to make comment on technical issues that they’re not qualified to comment on. In some cases, not necessarily this one, that same comment can encourage, validate, or endorse others to emulate similar actions or behaviour. In all walks of life and regardless of your profession, people will be influenced by others.
In aviation, we train people to influence others in a good way. They’re called instructors and they’re a controlled influence.
Tom from Croydon isn’t an instructor or a subject matter expert. Perhaps he’s never flown before but he pulls a mean wheelie on his motorbike. Yet half the thread is full of unqualified gibberish from the likes of Tom (and sadly some ‘qualified’ people that should know better).
A cut and paste from the FCTM says it all.
If you’re not qualified to make comment good or bad, then don’t. By all means ask a question and if you’re qualified to answer it, do so.
If we can’t respect the first P in PPrune then the forum may as well be renamed Parka Pilots Rumour Network. That’s not a slight on the forum itself, but the contributors.
Pointless rant over...
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Uk
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
......and that is why this forum has lost credibility.
Social media allows any enthusiast to make comment on technical issues that they’re not qualified to comment on. In some cases, not necessarily this one, that same comment can encourage, validate, or endorse others to emulate similar actions or behaviour. In all walks of life and regardless of your profession, people will be influenced by others.
In aviation, we train people to influence others in a good way. They’re called instructors and they’re a controlled influence.
Tom from Croydon isn’t an instructor or a subject matter expert. Perhaps he’s never flown before but he pulls a mean wheelie on his motorbike. Yet half the thread is full of unqualified gibberish from the likes of Tom (and sadly some ‘qualified’ people that should know better).
A cut and paste from the FCTM says it all.
If you’re not qualified to make comment good or bad, then don’t. By all means ask a question and if you’re qualified to answer it, do so.
If we can’t respect the first P in PPrune then the forum may as well be renamed Parka Pilots Rumour Network. That’s not a slight on the forum itself, but the contributors.
Pointless rant over...
Social media allows any enthusiast to make comment on technical issues that they’re not qualified to comment on. In some cases, not necessarily this one, that same comment can encourage, validate, or endorse others to emulate similar actions or behaviour. In all walks of life and regardless of your profession, people will be influenced by others.
In aviation, we train people to influence others in a good way. They’re called instructors and they’re a controlled influence.
Tom from Croydon isn’t an instructor or a subject matter expert. Perhaps he’s never flown before but he pulls a mean wheelie on his motorbike. Yet half the thread is full of unqualified gibberish from the likes of Tom (and sadly some ‘qualified’ people that should know better).
A cut and paste from the FCTM says it all.
If you’re not qualified to make comment good or bad, then don’t. By all means ask a question and if you’re qualified to answer it, do so.
If we can’t respect the first P in PPrune then the forum may as well be renamed Parka Pilots Rumour Network. That’s not a slight on the forum itself, but the contributors.
Pointless rant over...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlyingEngineer
Am more of the opinion that this was unintentional. I did the very same (only once) on a similar type (747-8) landing no autobrake, lightweight, idle reverse onto a very long runway when we had to vacate at the end. I was a new FO at the time and remember thinking the nose just stayed in the landing attitude until about 80kts then I rather luckily put the nose down smoothly, was certainly not intentional!
Some people seem to think the wheelie is an indication of great skill and airmanship so maybe it should be part of the check to line. But it's no more difficult than holding any other attitude and I'd be alarmed if he couldn't do it! Nice touchdown, though.
TRE
I am always wary of anyone who quotes their management or training qualifications as 20 years of RHS in legacy carriers meant that with two exceptions (one who went onto Concorde and an ex luftwaffe starfighter jockey) they were always hard work to fly with as they required extra monitoring and never lived up to their own egos.
Listening to their sermons my mind went blank.
Listening to their sermons my mind went blank.