BA wheelie 777 @heathow
When I was a trainer I reminded some pilots that the airline pays them very good money to fly THEIR aircraft in THEIR approved and trained manner.
Any competent captain could, should be able to hold the nosewheel off (Its hardly difficult, used to do it on some military types where it was OK, in fact, required ) but so far as I recall , 73,75,76 it is NOT Boeing procedure. and does run a risk, perhaps small, of a tailstrike or heavy nosewheel arrival, also with possibility of fuselage wrinkling. Didn't an American airline bend a 75 in Madeira recently?
So, fly the aircraft as required by your company SOP s, if you start variations and something does go wrong you are in a very needlessy, difficulty situation.
Whats the point of going out on a limb?
I agree with retired BA/by. Boeing FCTM guidance is to not use aerodynamic braking due potential tail strike, invalid landing performance, directional control etc. Aerodynamic braking is a technique historically used on fighter aircraft. Fine, horses for courses. Finally, I don’t see the high skill commented on here. This is easy to do but for above reasons is just wrong. Airlines are businesses, fly the aircraft the way Boeing and the sops dictate. Training managers are not normally plonkers and they would be right to call this.
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: ...
Posts: 726
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You have to be scared of being a pilot there? If so I'm scared of being a passenger on that flights....
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 192
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I recall, many moons ago, VC-10s doing 'rollers' (touch-and-goes to magenta-line generation) where the landing attitude was held throughout the entire 'roll'; the nosewheel never came anywhere near the runway.
Makes a change
from those half a flare and thump it in brigade. Supposedly manufacturer's recommendation- normally blokes ..at least girlies generally do a decent landing.
ps have I mentioned stand on the brakes?
ps have I mentioned stand on the brakes?
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Planet Moo Moo
Posts: 1,279
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No, it's not SOP.
Yes, you do have to 'fly' the nose wheel on otherwise the effect of spoiler deployment plus reverse thrust will spill the G+T in First.
Yes, you WILL run out of elevator authority if you hold it off for too long.
No, it isn't an F15 which benefited greatly from looking like a 'cool' teenager on a BMX, the 777 doesn't have the same 'slab' underbelly profile so it won't work.
Still, looked like a pretty nice landing all the same.
Yes, I am 777 rated thank you.
Yes, you do have to 'fly' the nose wheel on otherwise the effect of spoiler deployment plus reverse thrust will spill the G+T in First.
Yes, you WILL run out of elevator authority if you hold it off for too long.
No, it isn't an F15 which benefited greatly from looking like a 'cool' teenager on a BMX, the 777 doesn't have the same 'slab' underbelly profile so it won't work.
Still, looked like a pretty nice landing all the same.
Yes, I am 777 rated thank you.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To the guy on about "no plonkers" and wheelies galore, please name the airline so people can avoid it.
The Boeing manuals are not always as enlightening as you'd like however I think the spoilers didn't fully-deploy initially because of the body-angle. Nothing to do with the nose wheels being off the ground.
Yes, 777 rated also. From the FCTM:
Hmmm. I wonder how he computed how much runway it needs if you do a wheelie landing instead of the Boeing-recommended method.
It definitely looks like he ran out of elevator effectiveness at full back column. It would've been a hell of a knock when the nose gear finally met the runway. Not cool, and after such a nice touchdown, too. Shame. Still, at least he made the threshold!
PS: who is the complete pudknocker doing the commentary? What a knob.
The Boeing manuals are not always as enlightening as you'd like however I think the spoilers didn't fully-deploy initially because of the body-angle. Nothing to do with the nose wheels being off the ground.
Yes, 777 rated also. From the FCTM:
Fly the nose wheels smoothly onto the runway without delay. Do not attempt to hold the nose wheels off the runway. Holding the nose up after touchdown for aerodynamic braking is not an effective braking technique and results in high nose gear sink rates upon brake application and reduced braking effectiveness.
If the nose wheels are not promptly lowered to the runway, braking and steering capabilities are significantly degraded and no drag benefit is gained.
It definitely looks like he ran out of elevator effectiveness at full back column. It would've been a hell of a knock when the nose gear finally met the runway. Not cool, and after such a nice touchdown, too. Shame. Still, at least he made the threshold!
PS: who is the complete pudknocker doing the commentary? What a knob.
Firstly, the video is not an example of great skill, it is easy to do. Secondly and interestingly why do some admire / promote going against the guidance / instruction written by the manufacturer and its test pilot body. The technique employed here is completely wrong; do not use aerodynamic braking say Boeing. I know that many pilots have gargantuan egos but I do not understand the risk / reward here. If BA or any airline pay your salary just do the job the way the company recommends. In this case sops backed up by FCTM.
Last edited by olster; 8th Sep 2020 at 15:12.
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Come on folks. You’re all just jealous. I’ve been over twenty years trying to do that.
Get back in your armchairs and just enjoy watching it again and again.
if I can do that ok my final landing I’ll be chuffed!
Get back in your armchairs and just enjoy watching it again and again.
if I can do that ok my final landing I’ll be chuffed!
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: USofA
Posts: 1,235
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is one.
Not uncomon when working with Boeing IPs that we never let the nose wheel touch down on a planned touch and go. Don't construe my comments to mean that the pilot should hold off until the nose falls through as speed bleeds off, with the possible ensuing hard touchdown. as that is not what i meant. Sometimes airmanship is in the eye of the beholder
Sometimes you need to reflect on the fact that the FCTM, which by the way is not an FAA approved document, is written with ane on the lowest common denominator and taught as such, How many tail strikes have occurred while using this technique? I'm not recommending this, just taken back by all the pontification.
Not uncomon when working with Boeing IPs that we never let the nose wheel touch down on a planned touch and go. Don't construe my comments to mean that the pilot should hold off until the nose falls through as speed bleeds off, with the possible ensuing hard touchdown. as that is not what i meant. Sometimes airmanship is in the eye of the beholder
Sometimes you need to reflect on the fact that the FCTM, which by the way is not an FAA approved document, is written with ane on the lowest common denominator and taught as such, How many tail strikes have occurred while using this technique? I'm not recommending this, just taken back by all the pontification.
Last edited by Spooky 2; 8th Sep 2020 at 17:55.
No pontification and not jealous at all. The criterion for a good landing is not necessarily a smooth one. Direct quote from the FCTM. It may or may not be approved by the FAA but it is the go to document for line training, Boeing technique etc. I remain baffled why anyone would do it differently or go against manufacturers advice written in clear , unambiguous language by test pilots. Bizarre.
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UK
Posts: 135
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No pontification and not jealous at all. The criterion for a good landing is not necessarily a smooth one. Direct quote from the FCTM. It may or may not be approved by the FAA but it is the go to document for line training, Boeing technique etc. I remain baffled why anyone would do it differently or go against manufacturers advice written in clear , unambiguous language by test pilots. Bizarre.
The main wheels kissed the runway.
I’m jealous and if you aren’t then you’re not much fun! Simples! X
Last edited by srjumbo747; 8th Sep 2020 at 16:26.
Look mate if I say I’m not jealous I really am not. After 40 plus years flying professionally I have had good landings and not so good landings like most of us I suppose. Either way within minutes I had forgotten about it and tried not to hit anything while taxiing to the stand. The point being I did not hang my ego or adjust my status to the last landing. I was also a trainer for 25 years ( yeah, big deal) and I tried to promote correct practice as per company / Boeing procedure. To go against that is asking for trouble.
As for the low blow about ‘being banned’ I could not give a toss. This was due to an innocuous remark I made about the Swedish teenager, nothing to do with this thread. The moderator went down the standard pc route and banned me. It’s hardly a prison sentence and did not bother me one jot. Freedom of speech, eh?
Why not stick to the thread rather than creepily checking on my history? By the way I spent 10 years on the aircraft you use as a user name. Try landing like that and you will run out of runway very quickly. The misinformation on this site is potentially dangerous. As a professional pilot you are paid to do the job properly. It is not fun, it is a job that you have a professional responsibility to carry out correctly. Simples.
As for the low blow about ‘being banned’ I could not give a toss. This was due to an innocuous remark I made about the Swedish teenager, nothing to do with this thread. The moderator went down the standard pc route and banned me. It’s hardly a prison sentence and did not bother me one jot. Freedom of speech, eh?
Why not stick to the thread rather than creepily checking on my history? By the way I spent 10 years on the aircraft you use as a user name. Try landing like that and you will run out of runway very quickly. The misinformation on this site is potentially dangerous. As a professional pilot you are paid to do the job properly. It is not fun, it is a job that you have a professional responsibility to carry out correctly. Simples.
