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14 day quarantine

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14 day quarantine

Old 10th May 2020, 10:22
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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[QUOTE=BehindBlueEyes;
By the way, don’t believe all the propaganda regarding the NHS you see in the media either. I have friends and family ‘on the front line’ and they are twiddling their thumbs and itching to get back to routine surgery etc as they are spending a lot of time standing around, just in case. A number of them are surprisingly against any further extension of the lockdown too as they can see the long term damage it’s doing to the health system.[/QUOTE]

This is strange but true. I have been taking my ancient relative to hospital (small city) every week since this started. It is amazing watching the tumbleweed blow down the COVID19 free parts of the hospital. CAT Scan sir, yes please anytime now is fine! Same with our nursing friends who, in different parts of the UK, have a very low workload just now. I'm sure its different in London, Brum etc. but I suspect a great many people are not getting routine treatment they need. How many of those will lead to fatal consequences? The only way we'll know is from the Excess Mortality figures, and they aren't available yet.

No one size fits all in this pandemic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 10:28
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PaulH1 View Post
But it appears that it is not just the elderly who are dying. Members of th BAME population are up to 90% more likely to die than white people. In our modern world it is probably acceptable to let a few old people pass away - but what about all of those BAME people. There would be a public outcry!
The elephant in the room? Maybe they should have taken social distancing seriously.
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Old 10th May 2020, 10:35
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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MACDO : I am beginning to sound like a Macdo fan, supporting all your views but, again, you are right on the money. I ragedatt seeing a Vid of fat little NHS nurses dancing round empty wards only to be rounded on by wifey claiming the vid was fake news. Apologies to fat little NHS nurses. I am a bit more wary of propaganda. But, on thread, how will the UK police the 14 day rule of "self" quarantine ? I foresee lots of LHR arrivals smiling with complicity agreements but once outside, saluting with the Churchillian version.
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Old 10th May 2020, 10:45
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Gordomac:

Some nations are policing it with tracking anklets. Others with phone apps and daily visits by the plod.

Others again in supervised accommodation (all expenses hotel)

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Old 10th May 2020, 11:04
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Flying Hi View Post
Star Trek (1987) -" the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few " has come to pass?
Wonderful, I love how popular fiction has spread philosophy. Now try reading Jeremy Bentham (1748–1832) and his version of Utilitarianism.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:05
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by currawong View Post
Gordomac:

Some nations are policing it with tracking anklets. Others with phone apps and daily visits by the plod.

Others again in supervised accommodation (all expenses hotel)
Given previous form I suspect any quarantine won't be policed that seriously in the UK and there's no way it'll be an all expenses paid by HMG stay.

It's more likely to be fill in this form and then a bit of a "mind where you go"....

optics, smoke and mirrors etc.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:20
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Gordomac View Post
MACDO : I am beginning to sound like a Macdo fan, supporting all your views but, again, you are right on the money. I ragedatt seeing a Vid of fat little NHS nurses dancing round empty wards only to be rounded on by wifey claiming the vid was fake news. Apologies to fat little NHS nurses. I am a bit more wary of propaganda. But, on thread, how will the UK police the 14 day rule of "self" quarantine ? I foresee lots of LHR arrivals smiling with complicity agreements but once outside, saluting with the Churchillian version.
Gordomac I can do with the encouragement! My views on this are not popular at home. Or among our friends. I have made the silent observation that is you were a Pro-Remain, Anti Tory sort of person, you're views automatically were skewed towards whatever this government has done is bound to be wrong. This has been massively reinforced by an antagonistic press and the London luvvies. It has polarized views and I see very little evidence of a sense of national unity in our governing classes, which works to all our detriment. Strangely, Kier Starmer has earnt my respect with his sensible approach to probing the government.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:21
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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As alluded to above, UK quarantine will be a farce.

Re-route your flight via Dublin or any Ireland or Northern Ireland port/airport and you're exempt from quarantine - for long haul flights ADP/taxes tend to be cheaper via DUB anyway!

Or, save the hassle, land direct in UK, whether you give a mickey mouse address or a real one, as nothing appears to stop anyone flying out again 24 hours later.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:23
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Fella, over here on the Rock we had 14 day quarantine brought in weeks ago tho. 2 weeks in an unoccupied hotel, fenced in, locked in room except for 1 hr, meals on a tray - and that will be £875 payable to the government, ta. Started to relax things here ahaead of the UK now and it's 2 weeks self-isolation and you can even play golf by yourself.
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:40
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by T250 View Post
As alluded to above, UK quarantine will be a farce.

Re-route your flight via Dublin or any Ireland or Northern Ireland port/airport and you're exempt from quarantine - for long haul flights ADP/taxes tend to be cheaper via DUB anyway!

Or, save the hassle, land direct in UK, whether you give a mickey mouse address or a real one, as nothing appears to stop anyone flying out again 24 hours later.
So whats your point, ask all passengers to behave unethically and be irresponsible ?
Many laws can be worked around, thats not the point. Its a strong government recommendation, a requirement. Sure folks can obviate it, but then we’re back to the middle ages, aren’t we a civilised trustworthy society?

My grip against the current situation, is that pilots are in their own tunnel, and are unwilling to think outside this. For example, a local authority in the uk received 4million quid to fight covid from the gov. Thats for a city with 200,000 inhabitants . Yet Virgin wants half a billion quid so it can fly a few fat cat business men to the states, and deliver a few bucket and spade holidays to those who can afford it.

Is flying that important? Has it now become irrelevant?


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Old 10th May 2020, 11:45
  #111 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by T250 View Post
As alluded to above, UK quarantine will be a farce.

Re-route your flight via Dublin or any Ireland or Northern Ireland port/airport and you're exempt from quarantine - for long haul flights ADP/taxes tend to be cheaper via DUB anyway!

Or, save the hassle, land direct in UK, whether you give a mickey mouse address or a real one, as nothing appears to stop anyone flying out again 24 hours later.
Or land in France take a dingy across!!
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Old 10th May 2020, 11:49
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by captain8 View Post
My grip against the current situation, is that pilots are in their own tunnel, and are unwilling to think outside this. For example, my local authority received 4million quid to fight covid. Thats for a city with 200,000 inhabitants . Yet Virgin wants half a billion quid so it can fly a few fat cat business men to the states, and deliver a few bucket and spade holidays to those who can afford it.

Is flying that important? Has it now become irrelevant?
You do realise the sheer size of the direct and indirect contribution aviation makes to the UK economy, right?
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:36
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by captain8 View Post
So whats your point, ask all passengers to behave unethically and be irresponsible ?
Many laws can be worked around, thats not the point. Its a strong government recommendation, a requirement. Sure folks can obviate it, but then we’re back to the middle ages, aren’t we a civilised trustworthy society?
On Friday, in the supposedly civilised town that I live in, I walked past several street barbecues, all clearly mixing multiple households. So no, I don't think we very trustworthy, sadly. People have clearly had enough, no longer trust the incompetents that they overwhelmingly elected because Boris is a bit of a laugh and have decided to take policy into their own hands. The irony being that they were celebrating VE Day by putting at risk the very people that managed to survive WW2.

Unfortunately the Government have lost the initiative (if they ever had it) and are being held in contempt by people that were until recently doing pretty much as they were told. Control of the situation has been lost and the sooner we accept that and try and mitigate it, the better. A 14 day quarantine for incoming travellers really is the metaphorical re-arranging of the deckchairs.
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Old 10th May 2020, 12:48
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
I made myself exactly the same remark. Reminds me of these 1939 propaganda posters in Germany saying the weak and sick people in hospitals were costing too much money to the Empire...
I'd suggest that the point you are rather missing is that it is not a simple either/or question - it is plainly not a case of saving lives or saving the economy, in both situations people will die. We are already seeing more deaths from people who are afraid to go to hospital for other diseases, deaths from cancer treatment being delayed, mores suicides from loss of job or business etc etc.

In todays Telegraph Doctors in New York hospitals are saying that the lockdown must be lifted there immediately due to the negative effects it is already having on the population.


Peter Singer, a bioethics professor at Princeton, said officials need to think about the consequences other than in terms of deaths. “I think the consequences are horrific, in terms of unemployment in particular, which has been shown to have a very serious effect on well-being, and particularly for poorer people.

“Yes, people will die if we open up, but the consequences of not opening up are so severe that maybe we’ve got to do it anyway.” he told the New York Times.

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Old 10th May 2020, 14:51
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Who knows if a bioethics professor is qualified to discuss the economy, what will happen with the economy and whether the situation with the New York economy is the same as the UK? You only have to look at the markets, which seem to suggest the problem is sorted, to realise the risk in listening to anyone

We should never have got where we are - closing the borders and track and trace in January would have possibly prevented the need for lockdown in the UK, and the phytogenetics suggest it would also have prevented the New York pandemic....but from where we are now we cant release lockdown until new cases are at a level we can track and trace. Of the nine major countries that are releasing lockdown, 4 had new cases in single figures and the others were at a few hundred a day. The UK is at around 4000 positive new tests a day so the true new infection rate is well above anything we can control. To save the economy, and therefore to save aviation in the long term, we need to close the borders and keep lockdown now. My catchphrase would be 'short and sharp'

What will actually happen will I suspect be quite different....
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:05
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by homonculus View Post
We should never have got where we are - closing the borders and track and trace in January would have possibly prevented the need for lockdown in the UK,
Surely that is just operating with hindsight - the WTO didn't declare it a pandemic until the middle of March so to claim that the Government should have closed the UK Borders in January is not very practical.

I can just imagine the outrage on this forum had they shut aviation down in January.
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:13
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jet II View Post
Surely that is just operating with hindsight - the WTO didn't declare it a pandemic until the middle of March so to claim that the Government should have closed the UK Borders in January is not very practical.

I can just imagine the outrage on this forum had they shut aviation down in January.
Greece seems to have managed to control coronavirus despite being almost bankrupt. Compare & contrast. WHO " declared a Public Health Emergency of International Concern on 30 January 2020." Not a pandemic, but a pretty stern warning.
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:20
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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I'd have thought that, having spent the past five years talking about and planning to take back control of our borders, all this quarantine mullarkey should be a walk in the park for us to organise?
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Old 10th May 2020, 15:43
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by b1lanc View Post
Be glad it's as simple as country borders. In the US, you have to worry about state borders (and different lockdown procedures) as well as individual corporate policies. A relative who works for the gov't was told they are mission essential and needs to travel across the country. Problem - once they get there they need to self-quarantine for 14 days before they report to work at the target organization. Totally absurd.
It’s absurd because it’s not true. Federal law, in this case, supersedes state law.
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Old 10th May 2020, 16:24
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by anson harris View Post
On Friday, in the supposedly civilised town that I live in, I walked past several street barbecues, all clearly mixing multiple households. So no, I don't think we very trustworthy, sadly. People have clearly had enough, no longer trust the incompetents that they overwhelmingly elected because Boris is a bit of a laugh and have decided to take policy into their own hands. The irony being that they were celebrating VE Day by putting at risk the very people that managed to survive WW2.
Part of the blame has to go on the opposition for the non-compliance right now - "tell us the plan" "how are we going to get out of lockdown" and the big one "treat the public like adults". So they published or leaked the plans. Result? - the "adult" public goes off half cocked down the planned route way earlier than they should. People are already talking about who is in their "bubble".

But it didn't start this weekend, far too many of us have been working-around or totally ignoring the lockdown since the beginning. I am in the shielding group (and no, for the benefit of other posters above, it's not because I only have months to live, with the pills I can expect decades, in fact normal life expectancy, with covid, probably worse odds than russian roulette) so I am not walking the streets, but I don't have to, just watching the neighbours from my windows, almost all of them have been having extended family or friends round to visit, but I've mostly given up ranting about it. Sad thing is they are all supposedly intelligent folk, it is likely none of them voted for Boris as this area is solidly middle-class liberal/labour voting and remainer.

It is just lack of social responsibility, the WWII veterans were asked to endure terrible things and risk (or lay down) their lives to save others, we're being asked to sit on our f**ing sofas to save others, and "wah wah it's too hard". Weird thing is, I think it's catching, because if we get through this and when boot is on the other foot and the covidiots want some social responsibility from me, I am now resolved to get every clarification, look for every loophole, invoke my human rights to do what I damned well want, and mutter loudly about karma while I'm at it.

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