Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

KLM resumes daily flights from Amsterdam to Madrid,Barcelona and Rome.

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

KLM resumes daily flights from Amsterdam to Madrid,Barcelona and Rome.

Old 7th May 2020, 18:24
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ireland
Posts: 207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
While in a way I do agree with you, what would you have them do though?
Airlines will have to adhere to the rules like the rest of the companies that want to reopen. Similar to restaurants and schools
If they can't manage the recommended distancing separation they can do physical barrier separation. A company like KLM could use it as a marketing tool to entice more back to flying.
They can use something like the old class divider curtains between every row. At least one company has come up with a seats in same row partitioner also.
They can offer each customer a couple of sanitizing napkins to wipe off armrests. And masks should be used.
Security need to allow personal bottles of handsanitizer through so you can sanitize your hands often.
Increase boarding areas so people can queue orderly with greater distance. More floor walkers to rules are followed.
Some sort of cleaning after every flight. Panuts on the floor or sick under your seat would not inspire confidense and will end up in the press.
Ensure proper Hepa filters are installed in air conditioning, and properly cleaned. Cleaning of whole channel system at regular intervalls may be required, similar to what you sometimes do with a gas canister in a car.
Completely avoid possibilities of passengers taking pictures of people on every seat. Excuses by mangement afterwards just sound lame and bare witness of lack of control and that they can't be trusted.
Airlines with sutable planes can also take advantages of possibilities in the cargo market. China-Europe freight is still in a mess. And cargo volumes will rise a lot faster than passenger volumes as people are going back to work without borders being fully opened and quarantines of people still being practised.
Raise prices to required levels. They who fly now are not that price sensitive. The time for getting extra large volumes of passengers back by low low offers will come after CoVid19. Most routes don't even have competition these days.

If you are in the wouldn't fly now as a passenger category, feel free to add what an airline could do that would bring you back. Notwithstanding government no fly rules or impracticability with the long quarantines after cross border travel.
vikingivesterled is offline  
Old 7th May 2020, 20:24
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: malta
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by vikingivesterled View Post
Airlines will have to adhere to the rules like the rest of the companies that want to reopen. Similar to restaurants and schools
If they can't manage the recommended distancing separation they can do physical barrier separation. A company like KLM could use it as a marketing tool to entice more back to flying.
They can use something like the old class divider curtains between every row. At least one company has come up with a seats in same row partitioner also.
They can offer each customer a couple of sanitizing napkins to wipe off armrests. And masks should be used.
Security need to allow personal bottles of handsanitizer through so you can sanitize your hands often.
Increase boarding areas so people can queue orderly with greater distance. More floor walkers to rules are followed.
Some sort of cleaning after every flight. Panuts on the floor or sick under your seat would not inspire confidense and will end up in the press.
Ensure proper Hepa filters are installed in air conditioning, and properly cleaned. Cleaning of whole channel system at regular intervalls may be required, similar to what you sometimes do with a gas canister in a car.
Completely avoid possibilities of passengers taking pictures of people on every seat. Excuses by mangement afterwards just sound lame and bare witness of lack of control and that they can't be trusted.
Airlines with sutable planes can also take advantages of possibilities in the cargo market. China-Europe freight is still in a mess. And cargo volumes will rise a lot faster than passenger volumes as people are going back to work without borders being fully opened and quarantines of people still being practised.
Raise prices to required levels. They who fly now are not that price sensitive. The time for getting extra large volumes of passengers back by low low offers will come after CoVid19. Most routes don't even have competition these days.

If you are in the wouldn't fly now as a passenger category, feel free to add what an airline could do that would bring you back. Notwithstanding government no fly rules or impracticability with the long quarantines after cross border travel.
A lot of those are already in place, as masksamasks mandatory, disinfecting gel is allowed when under 100ml (airlines can't change those rules) and aircraft are cleaner differently.
Others are under discussion or too impractible, for example I wonder how dividers, either between seats of rows, are combined with evacuation protocols/times.

Klm already flies more cargo in pax planes than before corona, most flights are either to or from the destination with just cargo (and pax on the other stretch). They got the 747 back in action after retiring them earlier.
They started a partnership with Philips to start a regular flight schedule to bring medical equipment in from China, they do repatriation flights getting people back to their homecountry.

They are doing a lot, as safe as possible. But there is and will always be a balance between safety and profit and as a registered company, they have to make a profit if they ever want to survive.

​​​​​​
the_stranger is offline  
Old 7th May 2020, 23:09
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Queensland
Posts: 405
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FlightlessParrot View Post
Of course everyone has a right to question the balance of measures adopted in specific countries. But when that opinion is factually (and arithmetically) mistaken, and expresses contempt and disregard for the more vulnerable, people have a right to express their abhorrence.
Claims by FreemaninHK are more suitable for Jetblast where he could start his own thread.
autoflight is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 00:38
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 886
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Aviation changed the world and we are all proud of the roles we play, we take our responsibilities very seriously. If we don't people can die.

Covid - 19 has infected many and will continue to - more will die, a simple fact. How many more will die does depend a lot, exactly how many extra deaths will never be known. We currently just do not know enough about this virus yet, simple things like can you catch it again are not known. We do know a fair portion of cases require medical attention, up to ICU admissions.

Our medical colleges are short on resources from PPE to ventilators and ICU beds in many areas and countries, they are working hours we cannot imagine trying to help the sick and watching people die. They are just asking us for time, time to learn and time to increase capacity of the medical centres. They are happy to treat everyone of us, they just cannot treat all of us at the same time - spread the load.

We, our industry played a large part in transporting this virus around the world in record time. Not intentionally but we did all the same, I expect we shall repeat again but let's try not to.

It is our responsibility to assist our medical counter parts until they are better equipped, we need to minimise infection rates to levels our medical professionals can handle. This is highly variable by location. Mass air travel at this time is not very responsible to many locations.

Limited "required" air travel would be great to see, but booking vacations seems a little selfish at this time.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 06:20
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Limited "required" air travel would be great to see, but booking vacations seems a little selfish at this time.
One simply does not exist without the other. Besides, what is "required" for you might be different to what is required for a hotel owner on Rhodos....
Tommy Gavin is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 06:26
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: europe
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ATC Watcher View Post
and bookmark :

Are you referring to Sud Tyrol or Lombardia ? That is where the first epicenter and origin of the vast majority of cases that started to spread and infected the rest of Europe . Going on holidays there would be equivalent to go to visit Wuhan. Maybe be safe but not really a first choice for destination I would say ...
to tell the truth, I was quoting calypso;
bookmark is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 16:10
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Munich, Germany
Age: 79
Posts: 129
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I just read that from 1st June Mallorca, Crete ( I think ), Rostock-Laage ( Baltic Sea ) and Sylt ( North Sea ) will be served by member airlines of the Lufthansa Group from Frankfurt and Munich. Passengers will be required to wear face masks, etc., etc.. Air travel has always been a important part of my life, spent over three decades working as a front-liner for a major airline, but the thought of travelling under these conditions would not bring me back on board. I think, it is a joke. Itīs either back to normal, flying city pairs and starting from scratch, or nothing.

Last edited by BEA 71; 8th May 2020 at 16:13. Reason: typing errors
BEA 71 is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 16:21
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 1998
Location: 🇬🇧🇪🇸
Posts: 2,075
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Wearing a face mask for hours on end is extremely unpleasant. The moist heat that builds up around the mouth is intolerable in any environment that isn’t fully air conditioned, that includes most of the situations we find ourselves subjected to in Airports and aircraft pre and post Departure until Arrival. Infections around the face will increase as a result. Passengers and Crew will just not tolerate this “new normal” for very long, if at all.
Nightstop is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 17:35
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Europe
Posts: 693
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Face masks will not become the new normal forever. They are just a reasonable compromise to get the wheels turning while there is still an elevated risk of contagion. Hopefully they will no longer be mandatory once the plague is subdued. For the meantime, a mask with a valve could help. It doesn't have to be an expensive and fancy Respro, there are far cheaper analogues of it that do a similar job and are about as comfortable.
PilotLZ is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 20:25
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: est
Posts: 75
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
A mask with a valve protects you, but doesn't protect others, it's useless on aircraft (and basically, everywhere else, if you have an asymptomatic infection). The more protection you get = more difficult for you to breathe; easier to breathe = less protection from the virus, that works for all types of masks and respirators.
liider is offline  
Old 8th May 2020, 22:11
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 886
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Tommy Gavin View Post
One simply does not exist without the other. Besides, what is "required" for you might be different to what is required for a hotel owner on Rhodos....
"Required" would not be determined by myself or the hotel owner on Rhodos but an application made for reasons other than leisure. Reasons could be work related, attending a new born, funerals, weddings, birthdays, study, comply with family & work visa requirements, volunteer work and I am sure there are more examples.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 03:52
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Europe
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bend alot View Post
"Required" would not be determined by myself or the hotel owner on Rhodos but an application made for reasons other than leisure. Reasons could be work related, attending a new born, funerals, weddings, birthdays, study, comply with family & work visa requirements, volunteer work and I am sure there are more examples.
Airlines need a market. There is no market for required flights only.
Tommy Gavin is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 04:36
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 886
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by Tommy Gavin View Post
Airlines need a market. There is no market for required flights only.
There currently is no new travel insurance and borders are closed to many locations, that goes for trains,ships and cars.

The problem with vacation/recreation travel and Covid-19 is the time frame and volume of people, spend time in airports and taxis getting to a destination and a hotel/s for a week or ten days. The see and do all the attractions of that location that most other visitors are doing, then return via the airport often within around 14 days.

This allows for numerous hot spots of break outs that can easily overload local hospitals - none of the hospitals are funded by any airline to my knowledge.

So I find it very selfish that our industry is happy to overload another sector and contribute then to extra deaths simply to have a holiday on the beach some place warm.

Personally I am happy to take some financial pain, miss my kids on birthdays, miss my vacation and comply with some lockdown requirements. This will not be the last time this happens, but next time we all shall be better prepared and our hospitals will be better equipped and prepared.

I recall recently a thread or two with outrage of mercy flights of passengers from cruise ship and lack of ppe and consideration of the aircrew on these flights and flight crew should be allowed to refuse them against the medical advice given. Many now seem to forget concerns because the restrictions are inconvenient.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 9th May 2020, 20:30
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No one is going to fly except if they need to, or got over contracting the infection and realize it won't contact them.
cheapbizclass is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 14:39
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 53
Posts: 2,831
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bend a Lot
"Required" would not be determined by myself or the hotel owner on Rhodos but an application made for reasons other than leisure. Reasons could be work related, attending a new born, funerals, weddings, birthdays, study, comply with family & work visa requirements, volunteer work and I am sure there are more examples.
So who determines 'required'? Muppets like the SAGE advisors? Seems to me YOU would be very happy with a dysfunctional dictatorship! I for one have travelling to do as my family lives all over the world... A face mask should do the trick and a bit of common sense when it comes to personal hygiene!

The World has to keep turning!!! Feel free to hide under your rock
White Knight is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 16:22
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A little South of North
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
No one is going to fly except if they need to

Exactly. I keep saying it, and I will say it again: The older (retired) generation account for a significant percentage of travelers and I'm sure they won't be in a hurry to resume travel by mass transport soon. I personally have gone from roughly 50 flights a year to zero so far. It won't surprise me if zero will be my total for 2020. Am I hiding under a rock? No, I have little choice as things stand at present. Flying may resume to near normal levels by the younger generation but the overall loads won't for a good while yet.
Pistonprop is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 16:31
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Borders
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Pistonprop View Post
No one is going to fly except if they need to

Exactly. I keep saying it, and I will say it again: The older (retired) generation account for a significant percentage of travelers and I'm sure they won't be in a hurry to resume travel by mass transport soon. I personally have gone from roughly 50 flights a year to zero so far. It won't surprise me if zero will be my total for 2020. Am I hiding under a rock? No, I have little choice as things stand at present. Flying may resume to near normal levels by the younger generation but the overall loads won't for a good while yet.
I think this is completely arse about face.

Every single older (not necessarily retired) person in our social circle is intending to go on holiday this autumn/ winter as normal. The older generation are not panicking about this; snowflakes on the other hand are.
guy_incognito is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 20:44
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: A little South of North
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Exact opposite where I come from guy_incognito, no one is planning anything right now. Nothing to do with being snowflakes and all to do with being patient for a while yet. Enjoy your holidays!
Pistonprop is offline  
Old 10th May 2020, 22:18
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Tent
Posts: 886
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
So who determines 'required'? Muppets like the SAGE advisors?
The World has to keep turning!!! Feel free to hide under your rock
I expect the people that would determine "required", would be the same people that have closed the boarders you wish to enter and/or depart as part of your travel.
Bend alot is offline  
Old 11th May 2020, 03:29
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 53
Posts: 2,831
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Bend alot
I expect the people that would determine "required", would be the same people that have closed the boarders you wish to enter and/or depart as part of your travel.
One thing closing borders as part of national security, be it military security or biosecurity. It's quite another to decide what is essential! Maybe try reading 1984 or Brave New World!
White Knight is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.