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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

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UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

Old 25th Mar 2020, 18:13
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Originally Posted by torvalds View Post
Hence throwing cash at companies in this situation is not a solution. Currently we don't know when are things going back to normal. Therefore it can not be called bridging loan, but a high risk taking for an unknown period of time.
Why is/wasn't there a bail-in?

If there aren't enough funds to loan in the banks, then they must prioritize (or wait for the funny-money getting QE-d). We are indeed in a very bad situation.

I'd feel sorry (not sad, have enough important thing to worry about) to see E/J go, but make no mistake, if there was a market and demand, the "next day" there will be another privately owned airline to replace it. They are going to employ staff, pay taxes, the whole 9 yards.
With T&Cs that would make today’s bottom feeders looking like amazing old legacy carrier contracts.

CP

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Old 25th Mar 2020, 19:07
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Originally Posted by TheFiddler View Post
Well done EasyJet Senior Management.
Awe for the most proud and passionate colleagues, modest, with great erudition and who strive for perfection has been replaced with an incomprehensible anger and disappointment.
The quest for kindness and sincerity amid turbulence, for strength within and leadership by example was an ideal we could only desire.
Unity and appetite for success we believed, together. Yet, with a crisis upon us a display of debauchery unfolds, admonitions for solicitude. Honest and genuine spirit has been overshadowed by inequality and greed.
There is great pride felt for those with modesty, humble in their actions and unfaltering in eforts and willingness. Flabbergasted it appears acquiese was anticipated; but, regardless of acceptance we have been foretold our fate, for we are mere peasants to the affluent.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 20:28
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jeez, how short sighted are you torvalds. When a company goes bust it usually leaves huge unpaid creditors, so you are happy that every supplier to these airlines goes bust as well. So short sighted and righteous
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 20:59
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"Taxpayers money is not for bailing out airlines owned by billionaires".... what goes around comes around... how does the saying go? "Be careful of the words you say, So keep them soft and sweet. You'll never know from day to day; Which ones you'll have to eat"

I feel for the employees of these carriers but you are led by dishonest folk

Last edited by Livesinafield; 26th Mar 2020 at 01:27.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 21:49
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Originally Posted by ajwajw View Post
jeez, {...}
Sorry I sure didn't want to hurt your feelings. Some of your neighbour lost their job (recession), or you (depression)?
Our (UK) chancellor doesn't want to bail them out either? What you think he is? Short sighted and righteous too? Just an advice: you should leave your emotions behind when making financial decisions, or you'll get burned.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 21:55
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The Govt response should be to provide support, less the £X million operators insist they have to pay out as dividends.
The companies you mention are obliged by law to pay dividends they have declared, it is not optional. They declared their dividends before all the current chaos.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 22:09
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Originally Posted by Satoshi Nakamoto View Post
The companies you mention are obliged by law to pay dividends they have declared, it is not optional. They declared their dividends before all the current chaos.
Absolutely correct and by law, they could summon a meeting of the board and decide on a bail-in (of the paid dividend).
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 22:25
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The airlines, and especially Easyjet's, failure to use all possible means (including extraordinary manoeuvres like a cash call from shareholders equal to the dividend) is why the Chancellor isn't going to give them a lot of money.
I hope Easyjet's shareholders will be thinking about what the management the shareholders installed did to the shareholder's company if the company runs out of cash later and they're left with their dividend and nothing else except worthless shares in a bankrupt company.
You might see the likes of Jet2 get help if they're about to go under but Easy, and therefore also BA, can now forget about a big helping hand from the Government.

"Well done Easyjet senior management" indeed.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 22:43
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Originally Posted by LTNman View Post
We have to remember how the likes of BA and Easyjet kicked off at the prospect of Government support for Flybe only a few weeks ago.
Absolutely agree, only a week prior to flybe going I spoke about this with a member of their staff and complimented them on their help and how happy I was they were still flying. Funny I cant imagine for a second BA being anything like as helpful on the day. This was about changing a flight to an earlier one at the airport when I finished early one day btw!

I have no axe to grind with EY, but Mr Walsh along with MOL just push my buttons.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 22:53
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Happy to see them all go to the wall.

Then someone who values their passengers’ business can step in. I’d got to the point where a trip on BA was nothing but misery, the life of a tethered cash-cow on its way to slaughter. In fairness, easyJet were better, but then they employed Bellend.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 23:36
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The government could have helped Easy on the cheap. If the airline can't get out of squandering money on the shareholders because of a law, the government (through parliament) can change the law.
Everything is possible in a time of crisis. Probably many other companies that needs the same.
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Old 25th Mar 2020, 23:56
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Originally Posted by Kit Sanbumps KG View Post
Happy to see them all go to the wall.

Then someone who values their passengers’ business can step in. I’d got to the point where a trip on BA was nothing but misery, the life of a tethered cash-cow on its way to slaughter. In fairness, easyJet were better, but then they employed Bellend.

And this is all that is wrong with PPRuNe - used to be a forum for PILOTS, thus you wouldn’t get the general public/ flightless coming here and slagging off our jobs and prospects and moaning they no longer got three peanuts with their orange juice but two.

I eat meat, I don’t go on the vegans page and have a go...

Iv
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 00:12
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
And this is all that is wrong with PPRuNe - used to be a forum for PILOTS, thus you wouldn’t get the general public/ flightless coming here and slagging off our jobs and prospects and moaning they no longer got three peanuts with their orange juice but two.

I eat meat, I don’t go on the vegans page and have a go...

Iv
You sound like a real joy to fly with. Pity I don't know which airline you work for, or I'd avoid it.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 07:02
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In general terms I would agree with the rampant capitalists on here but on this occasion the crisis for airlines is because the government has shut down travel. (I am not commenting on why, only that they have.) I think, therefore, the government might have some responsibility to support them through the crisis, if only with repayable loans.

If the government wants the airlines to suspend already proposed dividends then maybe they should suspend the rules, simple.

I understand the airlines are not at the absolute top of the priority tree just at the moment but the employees and the public will surely punish the government if their jobs and their mobility are permanently destroyed
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 07:13
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Sunak is merely engaging in political posturing. Every other country in Europe is going to support its airlines. The UK is not going to be the odd one out.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 07:36
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Now US Congress has also approved a $2 trillion stimulus package that also includes “a $500 billion government lending program for distressed companies reeling from the impact of the crisis”.

UK and its tax payers have happily cashed in on billions paid in airport taxes, corporate taxes, VAT and income taxes from our industry’s employees, especially from healthy companies like easyJet and BA. But now we are told to find our own solutions through a financial system that’s been bailed out (properly bailed out!) by taxpayers and that’s now showing little interest in finding solutions. The irony......

CP
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 07:37
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Originally Posted by ChrisVJ View Post
In general terms I would agree with the rampant capitalists on here but on this occasion the crisis for airlines is because the government has shut down travel. (I am not commenting on why, only that they have.) I think, therefore, the government might have some responsibility to support them through the crisis, if only with repayable loans.

If the government wants the airlines to suspend already proposed dividends then maybe they should suspend the rules, simple.

I understand the airlines are not at the absolute top of the priority tree just at the moment but the employees and the public will surely punish the government if their jobs and their mobility are permanently destroyed
The government has affected the airline business, it has also affected many many other businesses. All of them are being supported by a range of measures. The airlines are asking for SPECIAL support, without having what makes their needs so different from any other industry.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 08:04
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
And this is all that is wrong with PPRuNe - used to be a forum for PILOTS, thus you wouldn’t get the general public/ flightless coming here and slagging off our jobs and prospects and moaning they no longer got three peanuts with their orange juice but two.

I eat meat, I don’t go on the vegans page and have a go...

Iv
Meester, rest assured I am very much a professional pilot, and have been for decades, though I’m fortunate that none of my present work involves CAT passenger flying.

I have been flying as a passenger a lot in recent years, and I mean what I said. The lack of respect airlines and airports show their passengers has been astonishing, epitomised by the abject misery of T5, or the fact that only two weeks ago having disembarked a Eurowings aircraft, and more or less successfully practiced social distancing throughout the trip, we were then crammed like sardines onto a single coach to the terminal. Criminal.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 08:34
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Originally Posted by flocci_non_faccio View Post
Sunak is merely engaging in political posturing. Every other country in Europe is going to support its airlines. The UK is not going to be the odd one out.
Its got to the point, quite literally, that if the EU do it this Government won’t. Just like it wouldn’t take part in pandemic monitoring, and hasn’t taken part in ventilator purchasing.
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Old 26th Mar 2020, 09:50
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn View Post
Unfortunately, this young chancellor is mesmerised by the aura of St Greta. He totally buys into the whole armageddonist vision of the global warming religion. No doubt he believes he has single-handedly saved the planet with this ill-judged announcement. He will learn ... but too late for many of our familiar airlines and airports. Sajid Javid was much more pragmatic. Real pity he has returned to the back benches.
Greta just says listen to the evidence of the scientists.
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