Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

UK government says no industry-wide bailout for aviation

Old 26th Mar 2020, 18:42
  #81 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: UK
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I must say cir-cum is a very funny word.

Jokes aside, this industry will contract, as many industries will and have done. It's going to be a very sad few years, but I can't help but feel some people in this industry are terribly entitled. At least this industry has a healthy underlying trend (you're not miners in the 80s!).

Any government help will be appreciated, but we can't take it for granted one bit. It was only a few weeks ago that EZY, BA & FR were moaning about rescuing flybe not being fair. Not that all the 1000s of employees deserve to pay for the sins of the greedy executives.
dobby88 is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2020, 19:27
  #82 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hector's house
Posts: 140
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not that all the 1000s of employees deserve to pay for the sins of the greedy executives.
I really hope that this will throw a spotlight on CEO pay and be a watershed for boardroom greed if any good can come out of it.
hec7or is offline  
Old 26th Mar 2020, 22:27
  #83 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: england
Posts: 826
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Quite right. Shouldn’t the owners bail out their own companies first? When they’re on the point of collapse, and if it’s in the public interest, maybe public money should be put in. I’d expect drastic changes in the boardrooms and executive pay and bonuses to be slashed. Hopefully, the government learnt its lesson from the banking bailout.
hunterboy is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 00:37
  #84 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Middlesex (under the flightpath)
Posts: 1,947
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Without being political, what seems most strange is that all the right wing Tory policies that they thought served them best over the last 12 years (corporate super-profits, austerity for the working classes, privatising the NHS, stopping the nanny state, and going ultra-small state intervention, oh and isolating ourselves from our colleagues in Govts across Europe who want a collaborative approach).... are now seen as completely the opposite of what we all are crying out for now (care workers, nurses, delivery drivers, sorters, stackers, ie: all those on minimum wages, gig economy types, and migrants that we apparently thought should go home). Since 2016 we have driven 50,000+ NHS workers out of the country because we didn't want them.
Without being political, privatisation of the NHS has been going on longer than 12 years. It started under Blair (who else!). Just saying.


nationalization comes to mind...and kick out those blood sucking CEOs who's wages largly depend on stock exchange values.
Only when the stockmarket is high: their wages haven't collapsed in line with the stockmarket this last month.


Fairdealfrank is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 01:12
  #85 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Canada
Posts: 593
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hec7or
I really hope that this will throw a spotlight on CEO pay and be a watershed for boardroom greed if any good can come out of it.
If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company..... HHHHmmMMM
Longtimer is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:09
  #86 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Mr Mac
Anyway as far as Sallyanne comment on Zoom etc we use them a lot as a company, and personally have been using video conferencing since late 80,s when you needed video conferencing suites to do it, but I was still doing a minimum of 2 transatlantic s a month regardless, as people want to interact with you, and know you, and watching a monitor does not appear to work as well as the makers and suppliers would like because we are human. Therefore I do think Business travel will come back, but leisure maybe a little slower, and more so at the lower end of the market as that section of society will financially hurt the most as ever.
Mr Mac
I fully agree! And good luck if you rely only on videoconferencing to do business with persons of other culture, not only language but culture....
.
Bidule is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:42
  #87 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Late to the thread but all I can say is good riddance. No bailouts for the banks, aviation or the rail companies should be given.

​​​​​For far too long customers have been squeezed and screwed over by companies in the name of soaring profits and dividend payouts. Especially in aviation employees have been treated like dirt too whilst their senior management teams sat on inflated pay rises and bonuses. We're all in it together? My backside we are.

So kindly take your dwindling profits and sob stories and sod off. Use your bottom line to fight your way through this mess like the rest of us are having to do. If your banking agreements and credit lines don't extend far enough so that you collapse, so be it.

Why is that when there's a crisis like this individuals are expected to be sat on a ton of personal savings to see us through it all with no bailouts and no protection from blatant price gouging by greedy companies. Yet the moment the going gets tough for big companies they go running to the government begging for more of our tax money.

Airlines are rotten to the core anyway. Its time for a shake up.
shamrock_f22 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 06:42
  #88 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hector's house
Posts: 140
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company.....
with respect, this is precisely the tosh that is always trotted out to justify CEO greed, look at the car crash demonstration of boardroom incompetence over at Boeing and the wreckage they have made of a former world leader.
hec7or is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 08:09
  #89 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cashash
The big difference between now and 9/11 is that after 9/11 most of the economy was intact
no it wasnít, far from it.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 09:39
  #90 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: England
Posts: 1,899
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
If you take the high end CEO pay and divide it among all the employees, they would end up with squat and a dead company.....
Who said you have to divide it among all the employees and leave them with nothing? How much would you need to earn to fund a luxury lifestyle? 1 million, 2, 5 at a push?

https://www.payscale.com/data-packag...-pay/full-list


Total compensation: https://aflcio.org/paywatch/highest-paid-ceos and https://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/12/Rank_1.html
Superpilot is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:20
  #91 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: England
Posts: 480
Received 31 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Bidule
I fully agree! And good luck if you rely only on videoconferencing to do business with persons of other culture, not only language but culture....
.
If you're going out into the world to find new business then of course you will fly there, no question.
But for routine progress meetings, why travel? I'm actually looking forward to one that I can do without leaving home. There is little pleasure in airline flight these days.
Sallyann1234 is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 10:24
  #92 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Luton
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by cashash
Well the argument is that with these multinational groups with diverse ownership patterns then if the airline cannot survive the Government should just nationalise the UK part.
they can then merge, them, so there is 1 full service long haul, 1 low cost short haul and 1 beach holiday charter type....3 airlines per country max, all on the lowest T&Cs of each get rid of thousands of crew and office staff, bankrupt a few lessor by returning hundreds of aircraft. run for 5 years then start selling bits off again to get some cash back into the government coffers?

Even more complex with the tour operators however, since of course the tour operator is needed for the airline to operate, they can't be treated as separate and many have functions spread across the various countries. They will be a bigger challenge than the scheduled airlines, but guess they could just close the airlines and hope the tour operators survive and force them to fly passengers on the other 2 airlines (shorthaul low cost and longhaul full service)
clipstone1 is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 12:44
  #93 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Planet earth
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
To be honest and i am talking against my own professional domaine, i hope there will be less air traffic in the post corona era. The customer was simply spoiled with choices of airlines and destinations. All this was leading to eroding terms and conditions. And top of that: why do we have to do 6 city trips a year, going shopping in new york on a friday and coming back on a sunday or having a weekend party in Ibiza?

Why cant we just be happy with a normal trip bike or hike on a sunny day?

To be honest, at the moment i like the peace and hearing the birds again. Or am i just too old fashioned?

dboy is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 13:39
  #94 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by hec7or
with respect, this is precisely the tosh that is always trotted out to justify CEO greed, look at the car crash demonstration of boardroom incompetence over at Boeing and the wreckage they have made of a former world leader.

I don't see where the Board has anything to do with the detailed workings of validating the software-pilot interactions of a single aircraft.

Now if you have other evidence of something that the boardroom affects than carry on with facts analysis
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:31
  #95 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: London
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by RexBanner
no it wasnít, far from it.

Not sure how you are measuring that - the country didn't go into recession in 2001 or see a rise in unemployment.
cashash is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:39
  #96 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Botswana
Posts: 887
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By any measure, the US was well into recession by the time 9/11 happened. As was the European Union. If youíre talking the U.K. then no, but only just. It was no bed of roses in 2001. Just look at Enron.
RexBanner is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 14:59
  #97 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: hector's house
Posts: 140
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lomapaseo
I don't see where the Board has anything to do with the detailed workings of validating the software-pilot interactions of a single aircraft.

Now if you have other evidence of something that the boardroom affects than carry on with facts analysis
Well they sacked the CEO, I think that constitutes sufficient evidence.
hec7or is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 15:07
  #98 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: EU
Posts: 625
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by shamrock_f22
Airlines are rotten to the core anyway. Its time for a shake up.
And you think less competition will fix the problems of poor staff and customer treatment?
pudoc is online now  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 16:40
  #99 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Uk
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by marchino61
You sound like a real joy to fly with. Pity I don't know which airline you work for, or I'd avoid it.
Am i there to entertain you ? Quite the reverse, Iím unfailingly optimistic - I just donít know why non pilots come on pprune to slag off pilots jobs-

Anyway it wonít matter to you down the back, as long as we are on time and the WiFi works
Meester proach is offline  
Old 27th Mar 2020, 17:58
  #100 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: N/A
Posts: 1,189
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Why should he bailout businesses who are sat on huge piles of cash?

Why should be bailout huge companies who are willing to shaft staff members for the sake of satisfying shareholders?

I think he's doing a good job.
student88 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.