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Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported

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Pegasus accident in SAW; just reported

Old 12th Feb 2020, 12:59
  #241 (permalink)  
 
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SFP OPTION:

• A reduced idle thrust transition delay

between approach- and ground-idle speeds, which improves stopping distances and in- creases field-length-limited landing weight.

• Increased flight-spoiler deflection from 30 degrees to 60 degrees, which aids brake performance when landing.

• A two-position tailskid at the rear of the aircraft. The tailskid protects longer- bodied 737-800s and -900ERs against inad- vertent tailstrikes during landing, which al- lows higher aircraft approach attitudes and lower landing speeds.

It wouldn't have mattered if they had parachutes!, they die was cast once they decided to land.. or rather didn't elect for a missed approach like the preceding 2 aircraft.
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 13:26
  #242 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by grizzled View Post
Re Clandestino's post (#213):

Best post of a general nature regarding culture and safety in a very long time. Should be mandatory reading for those heading off on their first foray into a culture different from their own.

Grizz
We had this cultural problem in Air France, leading to 2000/2009 period and series of accidents.
Things were under control till recently, seems arrogance and negligence are back ...
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Old 12th Feb 2020, 21:49
  #243 (permalink)  
 
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It wouldn't have mattered if they had parachutes!, they die was cast once they decided to land.. or rather didn't elect for a missed approach like the preceding 2 aircraft.
Exactly, you could’ve thrown the anchor of the QE2 from the back, you’d still be hoping for the best. Arguing for or against the stopping capabilities of a SFP vs a conventional-800 is totally pointless. The rules of flying and the basis of notecs seem to have been well and truly bypassed on this one. If the facts behind this overrun are as they have been presented then it’s very sad to see the apparent risks that people are prepared to take.
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Old 13th Feb 2020, 19:04
  #244 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Peter H View Post
Reading that for the first time within the context of the recent Max accidents is sobering to say the least. It's no wonder that Boeing and the NTSB are circling the wagons in response to renewed Dutch interest.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 00:52
  #245 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CurtainTwitcher View Post
I don't believe this is quite correct. The FMC derived headwind/tailwind component is actually quite accurate, although it does have an averaging function and thus not instantaneous. The crosswind component on the other hand is not reliable. There were other cues, GS, ROD, thrust levers back close to idle and the visual picture would have looked like a rocketship.
There is a good paper on this tha covers FMC wind component calculation: Safety aspects of tailwind operationsSafety aspects of tailwind operations Safety aspects of tailwind operations G.W.H. van Es and A.K. Karwal

it’s the best when FO’s are heads down, on approach, calling out the wind component and parroting the radar altimeter.
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Old 14th Feb 2020, 10:02
  #246 (permalink)  
 
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Not even W/V measuring units along a RWY can be trusted. I remember a long discussion with a MET chap (whose position was on a mayor airport) who noted bizarre wind values, even on quiet days. He found out the units could pick up vortices from departing A/C's wake.
Normally the MET observers would discard the readings as "spurious" signals, but later those values were auto-inserted in reports like ATIS.
When reporting that to his superiors he was told to shut up because in that time the MET service wanted to go fully automatic w/o any human intervention anymore.... and said that if the readings were like they were, the pilots needed to be warned for that......
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 18:11
  #247 (permalink)  
 
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"then maybe one should take a minute to self critic and reread how to land a 737...." - relevant to any particular post, or just cast to the wind?
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 18:16
  #248 (permalink)  
 
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Vilas, you got your private license yet?
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 18:28
  #249 (permalink)  
 
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Another PEGASUS mishap.

Pegasus EVAC DUS
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Old 15th Feb 2020, 19:06
  #250 (permalink)  
 
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Plenty of bags, trolleys...
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Old 16th Feb 2020, 08:28
  #251 (permalink)  
 
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https://simpleflying.com/pegasus-737...rf-evacuation/



Last edited by Roti Canai; 16th Feb 2020 at 09:16.
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Old 16th Feb 2020, 08:29
  #252 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by PJ2 View Post
I've been waiting for your other shoe to drop by way of explaining to others why it's wrong. If so, please say why. We fly 800s with the package and I can't find anything in the FCTM, the FCOM or the QRH performance section except data on the pitch-roll angles at which various extremities of the airframe are at risk or not depending upon whether an SFP package is installed.

The only information I am able to find online is from non-Boeing sites which in itself points to another issue regarding getting information for operators from Boeing, but I'll leave that aside.

Here is what B737.org has to say, as linked to previously:
Because the SFP was designed to do just that, using the features posted in this thread a couple of times now.

As the name sais, it increases performance on short fields, for takeoffs and landings.

If you calculate the incident at SAW with the BOEING OPT the difference of operational ldg. distance between the two Aircraft options is about 10% or 250m.

So the statement that SFP does not affect landperf is simply wrong, and thats what i said.


Last edited by KRH270/12; 16th Feb 2020 at 08:42.
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Old 16th Feb 2020, 21:13
  #253 (permalink)  
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Thanks for the comeback KRH, appreciated. - PJ2
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Old 17th Feb 2020, 04:36
  #254 (permalink)  
 
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I'm not a 737 pilot, but aren't the Flaps supposed to be down during an evacuation? To allow pax to use the overwing exits?
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Old 17th Feb 2020, 08:25
  #255 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KingAir1978 View Post
I'm not a 737 pilot, but aren't the Flaps supposed to be down during an evacuation? To allow pax to use the overwing exits?
Yes, part of the evacuation checklist is to set flaps to 40, before the engine start levers are set to ‘cut-off’ if the situation allows. But that presupposes an orderly stop, still on the undercarriage, engines running, and a still functioning cockpit crew. Not to mention the flap lever still connected to the flaps.

Last edited by Jump Complete; 17th Feb 2020 at 08:42.
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 02:46
  #256 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by KingAir1978 View Post
I'm not a 737 pilot, but aren't the Flaps supposed to be down during an evacuation? To allow pax to use the overwing exits?
it does, however this looks more like a controlled disembarkation using the Left Hand slides only.
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Old 18th Feb 2020, 06:33
  #257 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Jump Complete View Post
Not to mention the flap lever still connected to the flaps.
Or not, as the case may be.



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Old 18th Feb 2020, 08:20
  #258 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Or not, as the case may be.

Well, quite. Don’t suppose putting the engine start levers to cut off would achieve much, either.
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Old 24th Feb 2020, 18:57
  #259 (permalink)  
 
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News on Turkish TV saying the captain has been arrested. It seems he is being charged for causing death by negligence.

Last edited by Tetsuo; 25th Feb 2020 at 12:12.
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Old 24th Feb 2020, 21:32
  #260 (permalink)  
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Turkey arrests captain of crashed Pegasus flight in Istanbul: Anadolu
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