Airport security
I think a few posts ago hit the nail on the head for me. The complete inconsistency of it all in the U.K. what is allowed at one airport is not at another all at the discretion of the local managers.
we all know that Manchester is probably the worst in the U.K. by a country mile. I’ve operated and pax’s out of there and it’s just a truly awful experience. The massive row of bags being pulled and the absolutely massive queue to get them back. Being shouted at by the operators and then the smug grin when they “catch you out”. Manchester is not a safer airport because they have stricter rules.
Gatwick and Heathrow are an absolute joy by comparison.
TSA in the USA are brilliant. If you’re operating everything stays in the bag and you’re whisked through. No liquid or electronic issues And it seems to be the same rules at every airport. The one time I’ve had to be searched the operative was courteous to the point of being slightly embarrassed he had to search my waist band.
we all know that Manchester is probably the worst in the U.K. by a country mile. I’ve operated and pax’s out of there and it’s just a truly awful experience. The massive row of bags being pulled and the absolutely massive queue to get them back. Being shouted at by the operators and then the smug grin when they “catch you out”. Manchester is not a safer airport because they have stricter rules.
Gatwick and Heathrow are an absolute joy by comparison.
TSA in the USA are brilliant. If you’re operating everything stays in the bag and you’re whisked through. No liquid or electronic issues And it seems to be the same rules at every airport. The one time I’ve had to be searched the operative was courteous to the point of being slightly embarrassed he had to search my waist band.
Been following this for a while, at least its now a little less one sided than the first couple of pages. Its 10 years since I was involved in a joint military civil role, but the principles are the same.
Thanks to Will-161 for the update - I promise not to wear my padded posing pouch at BHZ
. Seriously, well done for sticking your head above the parapet and putting your side of the story. Unfortunately there are still a number of dinosaurs with 4 gold stripesbwho clearly haven't spoken to their nominated TranSec Liaison (if its still called that) about the threat, think because they have a pair of wings that they know everything about this highly complex system called aviation, be afforded royal deference by all and sundry and feel justified in being patronising to security operatives (which are among the better paid ground jobs at British airports). Yes, equally there are some security folk that could do with some customer relationship retraining, but as someone else said not following SOPs in an aircraft would be tantamount to negligence.
Thanks to Will-161 for the update - I promise not to wear my padded posing pouch at BHZ
. Seriously, well done for sticking your head above the parapet and putting your side of the story. Unfortunately there are still a number of dinosaurs with 4 gold stripesbwho clearly haven't spoken to their nominated TranSec Liaison (if its still called that) about the threat, think because they have a pair of wings that they know everything about this highly complex system called aviation, be afforded royal deference by all and sundry and feel justified in being patronising to security operatives (which are among the better paid ground jobs at British airports). Yes, equally there are some security folk that could do with some customer relationship retraining, but as someone else said not following SOPs in an aircraft would be tantamount to negligence.
a young Arab male wearing a bandana would be looked at more closely than a 70 year old rabbi
Controversial, moi?
The Israelis profile ON TOP OF the usual security measures. So what's the point? Are you sure you want the Israeli treatment every time you board a flight?
I always feel that I have been properly security screened. That reassures me not irritates me unlike the nausea from around the rest of the world.
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I think the pro-UK security “those are the rules” and “I don’t care about your crash axe comment” posters should ask them selves why there are so many problems with crew in the UK. Why does someone start a topic specifically mentioning his past 20 years experience in the UK? Is this purely due to rebellious, obstinate and cocky crew? Where does effective safety & security stop and power-play & humiliation start?
From a flight-crew standpoint UK Security is by far the worst experience in europe. Talking to you like you are some kind of animal and waiting for you to make a mistake so they can start their power-play. If you say “good-morning”, either you don’t get a reply or they think you are testing them or you are being sarcastic, amplifying their need to make life more difficult for you. Let alone using the word “please” in a sentence when you are been given a command.
LBA and BRS airport are the worst to my opinion. Having the same management with the same political, generic and content-less replies on crew complaints even frustrates my company. Out of all our double daily lay-overs, by far the most complaints are received by these two airports. Last year higher management flew out to LBA to escalate the matter after multiple flights were delayed due to incidents between crew and security. And yes, the Dutch are direct, however we are there to work, not to be subject of power-play and humiliation with delays as a result since they refuse crew their spare lenses since they are in a fluid. Last year, in BRS a flight was delayed for 1,5 hours after crew refused to have mascara confiscated since according security it had been a liquid before?
Like Will mentions, AMS airport security for pax is already quite innovative, but also for crew it is quite laid-back, only swiping your hands, belt and carry-on. No scanner at all, unless you are random. However, in LBA they have already tried to take away nasal spray and (the before mentioned) spare lenses unfortunately left In a bag.
Others (among myself), have had their bag quarantined for 10-15 minutes in LBA before they received the provoking question “if the bag had been in their property the entire time”. Try any smart answer and the supervisor would be there within a heartbeat.
In BRS the other week the fast lane entrance (which we normally use as crew) was closed. An employee directed us to the pax security entrance. When entering, the first Interaction with security over there was a (disguised) reprimande why we were not using the other entrance.
What these UK airports (with their local rules) forget, is that we have 64 destinations in entire Europe. All having their own rules, ways of operating, etc, etc. Furthermore, more and more airports use the swipe method, discarding the need to take anything out.
Off course I try to comply to all the rules, however when I make the mistake of forgetting that a yogurt of two days ago is still in my bag at 05:00 in the morning at the 4th different airport that week, I don’t need to have my bag quarantined for 15 min and subsequently emptied in front of my crew and all the pax (including spare underwear). As a summun I was confronted by the supervisor since the respective employee concluded I was mocking him due to due to my phoney laugh because my crew now knew the type of underwear I was wearing.
Above are a just a few recent first and second-hand examples. When I put on my uniform, I have the responsibility of multiple crew and +150 pax. I am not a terrorist, criminal or animal. UK security should ask them selves the question why there are so many problems with flight crew. I do not have these problems in any other country (well, maybe sometimes in Germany ). UK security could start with saying “good morning”, having a common sense (being only allowed to anwser “yes” or “no” sounds familiar) and avoid any form of provocation or power-play, just because they can.
We are all adults, more-so professionals in the same field, having to support each-other to keep our workplace safe. Having my yogurt from breakfast or nasal spray taken away like the lolly pop of a little child does not make my specific flight more safe. I do not need to give examples of how active crew might proceed when they are up to something bad. One thing is for sure, they do not need need any materials for that.
Security rules are a means to keep us al safe, not a goal on itself. Common sense and humanity should prevail.
From a flight-crew standpoint UK Security is by far the worst experience in europe. Talking to you like you are some kind of animal and waiting for you to make a mistake so they can start their power-play. If you say “good-morning”, either you don’t get a reply or they think you are testing them or you are being sarcastic, amplifying their need to make life more difficult for you. Let alone using the word “please” in a sentence when you are been given a command.
LBA and BRS airport are the worst to my opinion. Having the same management with the same political, generic and content-less replies on crew complaints even frustrates my company. Out of all our double daily lay-overs, by far the most complaints are received by these two airports. Last year higher management flew out to LBA to escalate the matter after multiple flights were delayed due to incidents between crew and security. And yes, the Dutch are direct, however we are there to work, not to be subject of power-play and humiliation with delays as a result since they refuse crew their spare lenses since they are in a fluid. Last year, in BRS a flight was delayed for 1,5 hours after crew refused to have mascara confiscated since according security it had been a liquid before?
Like Will mentions, AMS airport security for pax is already quite innovative, but also for crew it is quite laid-back, only swiping your hands, belt and carry-on. No scanner at all, unless you are random. However, in LBA they have already tried to take away nasal spray and (the before mentioned) spare lenses unfortunately left In a bag.
Others (among myself), have had their bag quarantined for 10-15 minutes in LBA before they received the provoking question “if the bag had been in their property the entire time”. Try any smart answer and the supervisor would be there within a heartbeat.
In BRS the other week the fast lane entrance (which we normally use as crew) was closed. An employee directed us to the pax security entrance. When entering, the first Interaction with security over there was a (disguised) reprimande why we were not using the other entrance.
What these UK airports (with their local rules) forget, is that we have 64 destinations in entire Europe. All having their own rules, ways of operating, etc, etc. Furthermore, more and more airports use the swipe method, discarding the need to take anything out.
Off course I try to comply to all the rules, however when I make the mistake of forgetting that a yogurt of two days ago is still in my bag at 05:00 in the morning at the 4th different airport that week, I don’t need to have my bag quarantined for 15 min and subsequently emptied in front of my crew and all the pax (including spare underwear). As a summun I was confronted by the supervisor since the respective employee concluded I was mocking him due to due to my phoney laugh because my crew now knew the type of underwear I was wearing.
Above are a just a few recent first and second-hand examples. When I put on my uniform, I have the responsibility of multiple crew and +150 pax. I am not a terrorist, criminal or animal. UK security should ask them selves the question why there are so many problems with flight crew. I do not have these problems in any other country (well, maybe sometimes in Germany ). UK security could start with saying “good morning”, having a common sense (being only allowed to anwser “yes” or “no” sounds familiar) and avoid any form of provocation or power-play, just because they can.
We are all adults, more-so professionals in the same field, having to support each-other to keep our workplace safe. Having my yogurt from breakfast or nasal spray taken away like the lolly pop of a little child does not make my specific flight more safe. I do not need to give examples of how active crew might proceed when they are up to something bad. One thing is for sure, they do not need need any materials for that.
Security rules are a means to keep us al safe, not a goal on itself. Common sense and humanity should prevail.
Last edited by Pander216; 9th Nov 2019 at 21:35.
Underwear???
You are asking for embarrassment. If you have an unscheduled night stop, you can hand wash your trolleys and socks in the hotel in the sink with a bit of soap or shampoo and dry them on the radiator ready for the next day. That’s what I do
I am amazed that any fight crew bother with yoghurt any more.
I have been going through UK security, (and Europe, the US, Caribbean, Mexico, India, Africa and Canada), for 18 years as a pilot and have not had the sort of problems you seem to have had.
You are asking for embarrassment. If you have an unscheduled night stop, you can hand wash your trolleys and socks in the hotel in the sink with a bit of soap or shampoo and dry them on the radiator ready for the next day. That’s what I do
I am amazed that any fight crew bother with yoghurt any more.
I have been going through UK security, (and Europe, the US, Caribbean, Mexico, India, Africa and Canada), for 18 years as a pilot and have not had the sort of problems you seem to have had.
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Underwear???
You are asking for embarrassment. If you have an unscheduled night stop, you can hand wash your trolleys and socks in the hotel in the sink with a bit of soap or shampoo and dry them on the radiator ready for the next day. That’s what I do
I am amazed that any fight crew bother with yoghurt any more.
I have been going through UK security, (and Europe, the US, Caribbean, Mexico, India, Africa and Canada), for 18 years as a pilot and have not had the sort of problems you seem to have had.
You are asking for embarrassment. If you have an unscheduled night stop, you can hand wash your trolleys and socks in the hotel in the sink with a bit of soap or shampoo and dry them on the radiator ready for the next day. That’s what I do
I am amazed that any fight crew bother with yoghurt any more.
I have been going through UK security, (and Europe, the US, Caribbean, Mexico, India, Africa and Canada), for 18 years as a pilot and have not had the sort of problems you seem to have had.
But does that make me asking for embarrassment? That is a strange point of view if you ask me.But thank you for your advice. If you have any more practical tips on how to not embarrass myself at security by taking nutrition and other basic needs on a multiple day trip, please let me know...
No uplinker, almost every night is a night stop for us. We have crew suitcases handed in at outstation, transiting via AMS to the night stop destination, 4 or 5 days in a row. Every now and then this process does not function, leaving you to end up at your destination without your suitcase. Security is not the only thing that makes execution of the job more difficult But does that make me asking for embarrassment? That is a strange point of view if you ask me.
But thank you for your advice. If you have any more practical tips on how to not embarrass myself at security by taking nutrition and other basic needs on a multiple day trip, please let me know...
But does that make me asking for embarrassment? That is a strange point of view if you ask me.But thank you for your advice. If you have any more practical tips on how to not embarrass myself at security by taking nutrition and other basic needs on a multiple day trip, please let me know...
Don't really have an SOP for yogurt.
No uplinker, almost every night is a night stop for us. We have crew suitcases handed in at outstation, transiting via AMS to the night stop destination, 4 or 5 days in a row. Every now and then this process does not function, leaving you to end up at your destination without your suitcase. Security is not the only thing that makes execution of the job more difficult But does that make me asking for embarrassment? That is a strange point of view if you ask me.
But thank you for your advice. If you have any more practical tips on how to not embarrass myself at security by taking nutrition and other basic needs on a multiple day trip, please let me know...
But does that make me asking for embarrassment? That is a strange point of view if you ask me.But thank you for your advice. If you have any more practical tips on how to not embarrass myself at security by taking nutrition and other basic needs on a multiple day trip, please let me know...
Well, presumably you got through an ATPL course and a full type rating, so I am sure you can work out a way to make this process easier and less embarrassing ! My suggestion is easy, and saves carrying a lot of cr*p around in your flight bag
Other tips ? Iron your washed shirt when it is still very slightly damp to the touch, and it will come out beautifully. If you let it dry completely first, it is harder to iron the creases out - even with a steam iron.
Food-wise ?, well in 18 years of commercial flying, I have never had any food items confiscated. From my home base I make a pasta or salad - no sauce - in a Tupperware container, or make sandwiches, or take fruit, which is enough during the flight duty. I can eat more substantially before and after the flight. Down route, there is generally somewhere you can buy a sandwich or a salad and fruit, often in the airport itself.
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Very pleased for your 18 years of success Uplinker.
What if you are doing a 12+ hour duty day and want something more substantial than a salad, a sandwich, or dry pasta?
What if you are doing a 12+ hour duty day and want something more substantial than a salad, a sandwich, or dry pasta?
A while back, I was departing Hong Kong, and there was secondary screening happening for flights to Oz. The security bloke decided my toothpaste was a great danger and confiscated it. (As a side note, given that small toothpaste tubes are 110 g, why on earth did they select 100g as the limit?)
We departed, and a bit down the way, the aircraft decided to blow up. Strangely, taking my toothpaste didn't seem to help.
We departed, and a bit down the way, the aircraft decided to blow up. Strangely, taking my toothpaste didn't seem to help.
It's all a question of attitude. I've been going through UK security for 15 years as a passenger and as a pilot. I can't recall one issue. Probably because I follow the very simple rules and do my best to be nice to everyone. Every person I know who has had problems has, in most cases, been the cause of them.
Exactly, anson.
Good grief. I don’t know how some of them managed to pass their ATPLs, if they can’t work out how to follow simple security rules
PS, I said ‘no sauce’, not ‘dry’ pasta, and you can get toothpaste in less than 100ml tubes.
Good grief. I don’t know how some of them managed to pass their ATPLs, if they can’t work out how to follow simple security rules
PS, I said ‘no sauce’, not ‘dry’ pasta, and you can get toothpaste in less than 100ml tubes.
