Ezy cancel flights due to crew shortage
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Steve Moody:
I think you will find that you have a problem. You are the one engaging in personal attacks and being immature. If you cannot handle people's points of view, put your head back in the sand.
If you want to know who I am, do some research. I am not obliged to tell you or anyone else.
I have explained my point of view.
How does it feel to work for a company who belittled another outfit and then bragged about 25% growth? Only then it starts falling apart? Great feeling I would imagine.
You display the same traits as your lovely Training Captain interviewer. A blind obsession with slagging people personally...........all very mature Steve.
No offence to you Steve, but chill out man. You will need to remain relaxed with horror of a roster you no doubt have!!
Oh, and by the way: If you did not realise this was an anonymous place, perhaps you should think again. Or maybe you couldn't understand the concept?
This whole place works on anonymity!!!!! Sometimes posters may not be as they seem. That is the whole point of it!!!!!
I think you will find that you have a problem. You are the one engaging in personal attacks and being immature. If you cannot handle people's points of view, put your head back in the sand.
If you want to know who I am, do some research. I am not obliged to tell you or anyone else.
I have explained my point of view.
How does it feel to work for a company who belittled another outfit and then bragged about 25% growth? Only then it starts falling apart? Great feeling I would imagine.
You display the same traits as your lovely Training Captain interviewer. A blind obsession with slagging people personally...........all very mature Steve.
No offence to you Steve, but chill out man. You will need to remain relaxed with horror of a roster you no doubt have!!
Oh, and by the way: If you did not realise this was an anonymous place, perhaps you should think again. Or maybe you couldn't understand the concept?
This whole place works on anonymity!!!!! Sometimes posters may not be as they seem. That is the whole point of it!!!!!
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Cruella
Of course pilots look at easyjet in terms as 2nd option..a contingency plan. How many pilots have you employed over the last year who were made redundant and needed a job. Do you seriously think they would have been flocking to your door if they hadn't had too. How many have you offered courses to in the new year that are just hedging their bets. Probably many of them.
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I must correct one earlier posting about this company having some remote similarity to Southwest.There is no similarity whatsoever.The tickets on SWA are low-cost...but the airline is anything but.Crew loyalty is very high and has been for years.Imitation is flattering(and I hope EJ improves into a worthwhile product) but its a very poor imitation.
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Tailscrape
easy/ryan etc are looking for guys who can take shed loads of pressure,and solve problems for them.
if they play good guy/bad guy (girl) at the interview stage and succeed in rattling your cage,what are you going to do when the s@@t really hits the fan?
you can't throw the toys out at fl 350....
anyway good luck with your new job.
easy/ryan etc are looking for guys who can take shed loads of pressure,and solve problems for them.
if they play good guy/bad guy (girl) at the interview stage and succeed in rattling your cage,what are you going to do when the s@@t really hits the fan?
you can't throw the toys out at fl 350....
anyway good luck with your new job.
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regarding this idea that Easyjet are reviewing the cases of previous successful applicants who were unable to accept the initial offer, does anyone know of a case where this has happened. Anybody been phoned lately and asked to come to Luton after all? What about Floppy Link..any progress?
Didn't think so
Didn't think so
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Easy are taking a hammering in the press and the top level management especially deserve every bit of it, it might just change attitudes enough to allow them to move forward.
My opinions were not reached in only two years!
Steve I know you are being positive but many of the longer term pilots have heard all the rhetoric from the company time and time again.There was no need for things to get this bad, and as we are now a major player it cannot be swept aside /covered up, as has happened in the past. Lets hope we have all learned from this unfortunate episode.
My opinions were not reached in only two years!
Steve I know you are being positive but many of the longer term pilots have heard all the rhetoric from the company time and time again.There was no need for things to get this bad, and as we are now a major player it cannot be swept aside /covered up, as has happened in the past. Lets hope we have all learned from this unfortunate episode.
Last edited by Groundhog Night; 10th Aug 2002 at 14:17.
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Zoru,
Thanks for your best wishes. Much appreciated.
I do hope that you can sort of see my point. What this Trainer did was shameful. He actually put another company down to my face, hence my bad feeling! That is unprofessional, not just playing good cop bad cop!
I know that ALL pilots in eJ are highly skilled and very competent, because they wouldn't employ fools. However, as in any airline there are a few twits.
This chap was one, and I have had this corroborated by others who have flown with him!
I believe the problem is this:
eJ have (or had) a high profile chairman. He makes a lot of noise (some good some bad). This flows down to some idiots who try and be "Stelios", except they are not him, and have not got the right character to be him....so it doesn't sit right I am afraid.
Anyhow, if you guys are happy that's great. If we all wanted to work for eJ, very few of us would have jobs now would we!!
Good luck to you Zoru.......and Steve Moody!
Thanks for your best wishes. Much appreciated.
I do hope that you can sort of see my point. What this Trainer did was shameful. He actually put another company down to my face, hence my bad feeling! That is unprofessional, not just playing good cop bad cop!
I know that ALL pilots in eJ are highly skilled and very competent, because they wouldn't employ fools. However, as in any airline there are a few twits.
This chap was one, and I have had this corroborated by others who have flown with him!
I believe the problem is this:
eJ have (or had) a high profile chairman. He makes a lot of noise (some good some bad). This flows down to some idiots who try and be "Stelios", except they are not him, and have not got the right character to be him....so it doesn't sit right I am afraid.
Anyhow, if you guys are happy that's great. If we all wanted to work for eJ, very few of us would have jobs now would we!!
Good luck to you Zoru.......and Steve Moody!
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Here's a little story that might fit here -
Five years ago I was accepted by easy but also by a foreign carrier. I took the foreign job - let down #1.
Two years later I re-applied to easy and , following a re-interview, was re-accepted. At the same time I had what appeared to be a good offer from another company, which would have enabled me to live at home. Again I sent a letter of apology to easy - let down #2.
Two weeks later, having found out that the "good offer"from the other company was full of worms, I re-applied, tail between legs, to easy, fully expecting a curt answer. The result was a course "starting next monday" and a three year span with easy.
I found that the training and pilots were as least as good as those I had encountered in an 8 year RAF, 25 year Swissair and 3 year career with later companies. They were very good to me when I had a health problem and I felt goodwill towards them in return.
That's just one man's story and there are of course some very different ones. Work there was always hard and personnel matters were not the best on a daily basis - that's what happens in an expanding airline and is to be expected. I hope that the problems will be surmounted and that the show will be back on the road before acrimony spoils things completely.
Five years ago I was accepted by easy but also by a foreign carrier. I took the foreign job - let down #1.
Two years later I re-applied to easy and , following a re-interview, was re-accepted. At the same time I had what appeared to be a good offer from another company, which would have enabled me to live at home. Again I sent a letter of apology to easy - let down #2.
Two weeks later, having found out that the "good offer"from the other company was full of worms, I re-applied, tail between legs, to easy, fully expecting a curt answer. The result was a course "starting next monday" and a three year span with easy.
I found that the training and pilots were as least as good as those I had encountered in an 8 year RAF, 25 year Swissair and 3 year career with later companies. They were very good to me when I had a health problem and I felt goodwill towards them in return.
That's just one man's story and there are of course some very different ones. Work there was always hard and personnel matters were not the best on a daily basis - that's what happens in an expanding airline and is to be expected. I hope that the problems will be surmounted and that the show will be back on the road before acrimony spoils things completely.
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FO Janeaway,
Nope, the Swiss outfit was quite a seperate entity at that time with no chance of a base change. As I said it's just one man's story. Down on the easy site some promises are being made - I just hope it isn't too little, too late.
Nope, the Swiss outfit was quite a seperate entity at that time with no chance of a base change. As I said it's just one man's story. Down on the easy site some promises are being made - I just hope it isn't too little, too late.
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easyJet outgrow 'orange culture' ????
Reading the thread about easyJet being short of crews I wonder if their delusional belief in an 'orange culture' and trying to match potential crews to this has handicaped their own empolyment process?
Who belives in this 'orange' crap anyway?
Who belives in this 'orange' crap anyway?
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IMHO - and I don't work for EasyJet, they are like any other organisation that is starting to suffer the effects of size. At least they had the b***s to come out in public and say they got the roster system wrong. That takes guts when reputations are at stake. Aside from this I must say that I am impressed at the sudden increase in the media profile of BALPA. Saw the organisation mentioned in numerous articles in the papers today -I guess that might be a result of the change of leader.
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All I can say is I agree with all of you in different ways. For instance, if BA offered me and at the same time easyJet did too I'd take BA. Then, lets say BA made me redundant, and I applied to easyJet, I would expect not to be allowed into the airline. They know I would rather choose other airlines over them already, which shows that if my contract with them eventually runs out, I could always very easily want to switch back to BA. I would love to fly either way, but BA are easier on their pilots and their pilots are respected by the entire staff at BA. What is sad is that if what you guys have said is true above then it shows that easyJet dont even have the courtesy or decency to tell you that either they made a mistake or you arent what they were looking for after all. This would be dissapointing, but at least they have told you that there is no need in messing around with them lettting you look for more jobs. I really have nothing against low-cost airlines, but I think they really should ease up on their pilots, otherwise soon, something in my opinion will go very wrong.
Mark Wilson
Mark Wilson
The report in the Daily Telegraph yesterday (not one of my usual reads, but just happened to pick up a copy!) said that the new rostering system had pilots, cabin crew and aircraft all working to different patterns so that the pilots and aircraft could be in Luton but cabin crew still coming in from Barcelona.
Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like Carmen (also known as Carnage) from BA. BA only cope with Carmen by building in so much spare time into their flying programme and crew turnrounds that it rarely has any effect. easy have obviously tried to use Carmen but without building in the productivity-munching punctuality buffers that BA put into their programme.
Carmen looks great on paper - optimised crew numbers - but is completely impractical in real life as it takes no account of the disruption caused by exactly this problem. It is not uncommon at BA to have an aircraft coming in from Stockholm, Captain & FO from Frankfurt, CSD from Amsterdam and four more cabin crew from Madrid all meeting up to operate a flight to Munich. Optimised crew numbers are great until one of the four flights which you need to arrive on time to achieve an on-time departure on your Munich flight goes wrong. But BA, being BA, do not recognise the extra airport standby crews and disruption as a cost to be set against the allegedly optimised crew numbers and so still have not realised that this system is costing them a fortune.
In summary, methinks BA could learn a thing or two - i.e. their short-haul rostering system is rubbish and that you can't run a low-cost airline from it, as easyJet have found to their horror.
Well done easyJet for having the guts to stand up and admit they have got it wrong. The true test will now be what they do to fix it and restore confidence from those passengers who have been affected by the whole debacle.
Hmmm...sounds suspiciously like Carmen (also known as Carnage) from BA. BA only cope with Carmen by building in so much spare time into their flying programme and crew turnrounds that it rarely has any effect. easy have obviously tried to use Carmen but without building in the productivity-munching punctuality buffers that BA put into their programme.
Carmen looks great on paper - optimised crew numbers - but is completely impractical in real life as it takes no account of the disruption caused by exactly this problem. It is not uncommon at BA to have an aircraft coming in from Stockholm, Captain & FO from Frankfurt, CSD from Amsterdam and four more cabin crew from Madrid all meeting up to operate a flight to Munich. Optimised crew numbers are great until one of the four flights which you need to arrive on time to achieve an on-time departure on your Munich flight goes wrong. But BA, being BA, do not recognise the extra airport standby crews and disruption as a cost to be set against the allegedly optimised crew numbers and so still have not realised that this system is costing them a fortune.
In summary, methinks BA could learn a thing or two - i.e. their short-haul rostering system is rubbish and that you can't run a low-cost airline from it, as easyJet have found to their horror.
Well done easyJet for having the guts to stand up and admit they have got it wrong. The true test will now be what they do to fix it and restore confidence from those passengers who have been affected by the whole debacle.
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The self righteous arrogance of many of the EJ pilots (Steve Moody etc) on this forum leads me to conclude that many of them have very short memories. Only 4 years ago EJ would literally take anyone they could get and consequently got what they deserved. I know of 2 guys who left us to join EJ at that time – both were F/Os who had been assessed by our company as “unsuitable for command” – one for “attitude problems” and the other for simple incompetence. Although neither had any command time, they joined EJ as direct entry captains. These are the same sort of guys that now preach on this forum (and I suspect on the EJ selection panel) about “quality pilots”, “the orange culture” and the fact that “easyJet can pick and choose”. I wonder how far they would get if they applied now?.
Might I suggest that anyone going for an EJ interview takes the opportunity to ask the question -
“Tell me captain, what exactly is your background?”.
I doubt you will get an honest answer but it might help stem the arrogance coming out of this outfit if the “quality” of the very pilots conducting the interviews, sim checks and training was put under the spotlight.
Might I suggest that anyone going for an EJ interview takes the opportunity to ask the question -
“Tell me captain, what exactly is your background?”.
I doubt you will get an honest answer but it might help stem the arrogance coming out of this outfit if the “quality” of the very pilots conducting the interviews, sim checks and training was put under the spotlight.
Last edited by Rufrix Heavywash; 11th Aug 2002 at 15:00.
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Spot on Rufrix Heavywash.
They were paying £25K Golden Hello to each person that joined them at that time, knowing that otherwise these people would have gone elsewhere - better! So those preachers about quality personnel at eJ, try and defend this one.
I'll just spell it out to those that don't get it - easyJet took ANYONE in the year before 9/11 and they are the captains and management and the interviewers of today. What a load of youknowhat.
They were paying £25K Golden Hello to each person that joined them at that time, knowing that otherwise these people would have gone elsewhere - better! So those preachers about quality personnel at eJ, try and defend this one.
I'll just spell it out to those that don't get it - easyJet took ANYONE in the year before 9/11 and they are the captains and management and the interviewers of today. What a load of youknowhat.
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just a point about computerised rostering systems; I work on BA's 'ATLAS' system for a short time but this was so unweildly that it was eventually scrapped I believe. At the time they were trialing it on Euro gatwick (I think!), does anybody here know the eventual outcome of this work and is the easyJet problem related to that product?
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Tff
I think easy only gave direct entry commands to FO's in the early days, up to (guessing) early 1999.
Certainly at the time of the 25/30k golden hellos (early 2001) I believe it was only available to 737 Captains.
I think easy only gave direct entry commands to FO's in the early days, up to (guessing) early 1999.
Certainly at the time of the 25/30k golden hellos (early 2001) I believe it was only available to 737 Captains.
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Good point Flightrider - it does look good on paper, but as you point out, as soon as it goes wrong, it does so big time.
c.f. with an operationally driven programme - yes, it may look more expensive on paper, and utilisation is less, BUT....when we had all the ATC disruption a few months back, easy had to cancel 44 flights - our airline cancelled none.
As you say, no cost is factored in for the "******ation" factor.
On the plus side, at least they are coming out openly and admitting it is "rubbish" - I hope the right decisions are made to correct it.
(I can't believe Pprune doesn't let me write bugg3r!)
c.f. with an operationally driven programme - yes, it may look more expensive on paper, and utilisation is less, BUT....when we had all the ATC disruption a few months back, easy had to cancel 44 flights - our airline cancelled none.
As you say, no cost is factored in for the "******ation" factor.
On the plus side, at least they are coming out openly and admitting it is "rubbish" - I hope the right decisions are made to correct it.
(I can't believe Pprune doesn't let me write bugg3r!)