Hard times for Norwegian
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Don't know of the validity of management's statements, but that is the message they presented to NUK cabin crew just a few months ago.
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https://www.flightglobal.com/strateg...137774.article
“HSBC believes all of the airlines it covers bar Norwegian will survive”
“HSBC believes all of the airlines it covers bar Norwegian will survive”
”New Norwegian”, here we go
Last edited by uncle-traveling-matt; 8th Apr 2020 at 14:52.
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I agree. HSBC writes for investors which might indeed get wiped out, therefore their piece has some logic. Norwegian will survive simply because driving 1500km across Norway in the winter is not an option and Norwegians want to be able to go catch some sun in Malaga every now and then. On top of that who wants their basic infrastructure in the hands of Ryanair? Norway needs Norwegian; they can afford to save it so they will even If they have to nationalise it. The LH structure from European capitals to the US I am not so sure. Given time, money and a permanent fix to the RR engine issue it could become quite profitable but I fear that right now none of those are available.
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SVT (Sveriges Television) reporting that Norwegian has called for an Extraordinary General Meeting to discuss a proposal to negotiate its debts into shares in the company. Source here, 16:04 8/4/20.
Good luck with that.
Good luck with that.
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The Norwegian state is not the largest shareholder. It is the third largest, sitting at 4.15% of the shares. Hardly a massive amount.
https://www.marketscreener.com/NORWE...13204/company/
https://www.marketscreener.com/NORWE...13204/company/
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The Norwegian state is not the largest shareholder. It is the third largest, sitting at 4.15% of the shares. Hardly a massive amount.
https://www.marketscreener.com/NORWE...13204/company/
https://www.marketscreener.com/NORWE...13204/company/
https://m.ftf.no/?lang=en_GB and Scandi banks.
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You link to the front page of the sovereign wealth fund, which of course shows nothing. When you then go to the notice page, nothing is listed either: https://www.folketrygdfondet.no/flag...tegory182.html
There has been nothing in the news either. Can you please link to a page where the ownership is more updated than the one I provided?
Looking at the Oslo stock exchange website, no major transactions have taken place. https://www.oslobors.no/markedsaktiv...S.OSE/messages
It does seem odd that you, uncle, seem to know more about the ownership structure than disclosed by the stock exchange.
There has been nothing in the news either. Can you please link to a page where the ownership is more updated than the one I provided?
Looking at the Oslo stock exchange website, no major transactions have taken place. https://www.oslobors.no/markedsaktiv...S.OSE/messages
It does seem odd that you, uncle, seem to know more about the ownership structure than disclosed by the stock exchange.
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I don't think is as simple or transparent as that. You are talking about the pension fund which manages 20 odd billion dollars but there is also the Oil Wealth Fund which is much much larger at the trillion dollar level. Not all holdings are owned directly by the Pension fund. Both funds combined also own many banks, companies and financial institutions which in turn also own all sorts of shares.
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The trillion dollar fund is mainly for investment abroad and it is their own statement that the fund cannot own more than 10% of a listed company: https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/sl...forvaltningen/ NAS is not listed anywhere there.
This is starting to sound more and more like smoke and mirrors to present some illusion that NAS is a state carrier just because it uses the name "Norwegian". It is really not. SAS was formed by Norway, Sweden and Denmark a long time ago, but Notway sold its shares in them years ago.
I have no skin in this game, but when someone claims that the Norwegian state is majority shareholder in NAS, I expect it to be backed up by hard facts. Just wishy washy speculation and insinuations.
This is starting to sound more and more like smoke and mirrors to present some illusion that NAS is a state carrier just because it uses the name "Norwegian". It is really not. SAS was formed by Norway, Sweden and Denmark a long time ago, but Notway sold its shares in them years ago.
I have no skin in this game, but when someone claims that the Norwegian state is majority shareholder in NAS, I expect it to be backed up by hard facts. Just wishy washy speculation and insinuations.
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The trillion dollar fund is mainly for investment abroad and it is their own statement that the fund cannot own more than 10% of a listed company: https://www.nbim.no/no/oljefondet/sl...forvaltningen/ NAS is not listed anywhere there.
This is starting to sound more and more like smoke and mirrors to present some illusion that NAS is a state carrier just because it uses the name "Norwegian". It is really not. SAS was formed by Norway, Sweden and Denmark a long time ago, but Notway sold its shares in them years ago.
I have no skin in this game, but when someone claims that the Norwegian state is majority shareholder in NAS, I expect it to be backed up by hard facts. Just wishy washy speculation and insinuations.
This is starting to sound more and more like smoke and mirrors to present some illusion that NAS is a state carrier just because it uses the name "Norwegian". It is really not. SAS was formed by Norway, Sweden and Denmark a long time ago, but Notway sold its shares in them years ago.
I have no skin in this game, but when someone claims that the Norwegian state is majority shareholder in NAS, I expect it to be backed up by hard facts. Just wishy washy speculation and insinuations.
Norway sold it's last shares in sas and made Norwegian it's main national airline. Without Norwegian, Norway would never had sold it's shares in sas
Last edited by uncle-traveling-matt; 9th Apr 2020 at 15:36.
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Last edited by maxpeck; 9th Apr 2020 at 14:25.
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Maxpeck, thanks. Which source is that? I prefer to read it myself than a screenshot.
What the Norwegian state has offered is a loan guarantee, provided that NAS came live up to some pretty tough conditions including 8% equity which they are nowhere near meeting. Only a PR manager working for NAS could come up with the ludicrous notion that NAS is "in a perfect position to sort out its debt." It is the absolutely last arrow of desperation, for what they are asking to convert massive debt to shares of an imaginary value in the hope that the creditors want a lottery ticket instead of the assests that the loans are secured against. As you can see right here: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...tatt-pa-sengen the creditors did not even know about this notion. If it was that simple, I wonder why any company would ever go bankrupt if they can just hand over shares to their creditors to make the debt magically disappear?
Should this debt to equity swap work against all odds and sense, you will still end up wiping basically all current shareholders out to nothing: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...r-redningsplan
Norwegian is not a national carrier. It is and has always been a private company. The strategy now is a variant of the "privatize the profits, but socialize the losses." An argument used is that Norwegian in lieu of its name advertises Norway around the world. Pretty desperate argumentation. If you want connectivity in Norway due to the geography, Widerøe is much better suited for that. Flying Norwegians to the sun can be achieved by any airline.
What the Norwegian state has offered is a loan guarantee, provided that NAS came live up to some pretty tough conditions including 8% equity which they are nowhere near meeting. Only a PR manager working for NAS could come up with the ludicrous notion that NAS is "in a perfect position to sort out its debt." It is the absolutely last arrow of desperation, for what they are asking to convert massive debt to shares of an imaginary value in the hope that the creditors want a lottery ticket instead of the assests that the loans are secured against. As you can see right here: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...tatt-pa-sengen the creditors did not even know about this notion. If it was that simple, I wonder why any company would ever go bankrupt if they can just hand over shares to their creditors to make the debt magically disappear?
Should this debt to equity swap work against all odds and sense, you will still end up wiping basically all current shareholders out to nothing: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...r-redningsplan
Norwegian is not a national carrier. It is and has always been a private company. The strategy now is a variant of the "privatize the profits, but socialize the losses." An argument used is that Norwegian in lieu of its name advertises Norway around the world. Pretty desperate argumentation. If you want connectivity in Norway due to the geography, Widerøe is much better suited for that. Flying Norwegians to the sun can be achieved by any airline.
Last edited by ReallyAnnoyed; 9th Apr 2020 at 14:34.
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Maxpeck, thanks. Which source is that? I prefer to read it myself than a screenshot.
What the Norwegian state has offered is a loan guarantee, provided that NAS came live up to some pretty tough conditions including 8% equity which they are nowhere near meeting. Only a PR manager working for NAS could come up with the ludicrous notion that NAS is "in a perfect position to sort out its debt." It is the absolutely last arrow of desperation, for what they are asking to convert massive debt to shares of an imaginary value in the hope that the creditors want a lottery ticket instead of the assests that the loans are secured against. As you can see right here: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...tatt-pa-sengen the creditors did not even know about this notion. If it was that simple, I wonder why any company would ever go bankrupt if they can just hand over shares to their creditors to make the debt magically disappear?
Should this debt to equity swap work against all odds and sense, you will still end up wiping basically all current shareholders out to nothing: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...r-redningsplan
Norwegian is not a national carrier. It is and has always been a private company. The strategy now is a variant of the "privatize the profits, but socialize the losses." An argument used is that Norwegian in lieu of its name advertises Norway around the world. Pretty desperate argumentation. If you want connectivity in Norway due to the geography, Widerøe is much better suited for that. Flying Norwegians to the sun can be achieved by any airline.
What the Norwegian state has offered is a loan guarantee, provided that NAS came live up to some pretty tough conditions including 8% equity which they are nowhere near meeting. Only a PR manager working for NAS could come up with the ludicrous notion that NAS is "in a perfect position to sort out its debt." It is the absolutely last arrow of desperation, for what they are asking to convert massive debt to shares of an imaginary value in the hope that the creditors want a lottery ticket instead of the assests that the loans are secured against. As you can see right here: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...tatt-pa-sengen the creditors did not even know about this notion. If it was that simple, I wonder why any company would ever go bankrupt if they can just hand over shares to their creditors to make the debt magically disappear?
Should this debt to equity swap work against all odds and sense, you will still end up wiping basically all current shareholders out to nothing: https://finansavisen.no/nyheter/luft...r-redningsplan
Norwegian is not a national carrier. It is and has always been a private company. The strategy now is a variant of the "privatize the profits, but socialize the losses." An argument used is that Norwegian in lieu of its name advertises Norway around the world. Pretty desperate argumentation. If you want connectivity in Norway due to the geography, Widerøe is much better suited for that. Flying Norwegians to the sun can be achieved by any airline.
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You're welcome. It is available from here, but to get the latest updates you have to pay.
https://tekinvestor.no/aksjonaerlister/nas_ol
https://tekinvestor.no/aksjonaerlister/nas_ol
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Well uncle, you are about as credible as Comical Ali and I only interject because you so obviously misinform on purpose. You remind me of the PR managers that NAS like to employ. The former one, DK, was completely delusional as well. I provided you with facts, but when you are fact-resistant, one can not but wonder about your obvious lack of neutrality. This is an open forum, not an organ for company propaganda.
Thanks, Maxpeck.
Thanks, Maxpeck.
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Well uncle, you are about as credible as Comical Ali and I only interject because you so obviously misinform on purpose. You remind me of the PR managers that NAS like to employ. The former one, DK, was completely delusional as well. I provided you with facts, but when you are fact-resistant, one can not but wonder about your obvious lack of neutrality. This is an open forum, not an organ for company propaganda.
Thanks, Maxpeck.
Thanks, Maxpeck.
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Judging by the way some people are writing here you would think that Norway owns 60% of the company, while they only have 6% of the shares. Hardly relevant.
Considering the market value of the company that 6% is worth less than 10 millions euros, which is the equivalent of less than peanuts, enough to run the company for maybe 2 days. With a debt of what, 6 billions eur?
The more I look at the number the more I realize that government loans are not going to be enough.
If they want to survive they need a monstrous full blown bail out, not a guaranteed loan of a few hundreds millions.
Considering the market value of the company that 6% is worth less than 10 millions euros, which is the equivalent of less than peanuts, enough to run the company for maybe 2 days. With a debt of what, 6 billions eur?
The more I look at the number the more I realize that government loans are not going to be enough.
If they want to survive they need a monstrous full blown bail out, not a guaranteed loan of a few hundreds millions.
Last edited by dirk85; 9th Apr 2020 at 19:13.
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Sounding desperate …. their debt is simply horrific
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...e-final-gambit
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/ar...e-final-gambit
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Under water with rocks in their pockets
I personally can't see Norwegian getting themselves out of this mess now. To be honest, I'm surprised they managed to survive Winter 19/20 after last years' troubles, so without an enormous injection of cash from the Norwegian Government, I suspect they may be the first major airlines to come unstuck by the current crisis.