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BA422 smoke incident Valencia

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BA422 smoke incident Valencia

Old 8th Aug 2019, 17:40
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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In Valencia people without a passport get to sit in the baggage area and served water. On an international flight into the US they'd get carted off to jail as undocumented immigrants / potential terrorists and have to wait for a few days in detention until consular services wake up and supply them with documentation - and then they'd have to get their credit card company to reissue cards without which they can't get around, and then find their kids wherever the system has put them as they'd have been taken away to a different place. No airline employee would venture to get in the way of Homeland and ICE who would have a field day protecting the nation from invasion.

I think this went rather well for an unplanned arrival - I wouldn't have complained: Healthy, on the ground, unhurt, and not in detention, in a safe environment. Europe has its good sides. Any flight you are allowed to walk away from is a good flight.

Edmund

Last edited by edmundronald; 8th Aug 2019 at 18:30.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 17:50
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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Hence the reason I always carry a small bag across my chest with passport, wallet, phone, charging cables etc to bring with me if I have to evacuate.

Family think I'm paranoid....
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 18:39
  #103 (permalink)  

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Originally Posted by Dominator2 View Post
Can anyone answer the following,
What you, wiggy and Small Cog said is how it is played. Details available here, http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/FCTM_A318_to_A321.pdf go to page 422.

If it is not evident from the read, the Smoke procedure is a troubleshooting / isolating exercise in the worst-case shutting large parts of the electrical system too. And it clearly says: Any time the present smoke itself becomes the greatest threat, apply immediately the SMOKE REMOVAL procedure. And that is down, slow, no packs and open the hull to ventilate.

The sentiment already mentioned that use of pax oxy generators is discouraged is shared AFAIK.

And this: http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/A320-Smoke_A320.pdf

Last edited by FlightDetent; 8th Aug 2019 at 19:05.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 18:55
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
In Valencia people without a passport get to sit in the baggage area and served water. On an international flight into the US they'd get carted off to jail as undocumented immigrants / potential terrorists and have to wait for a few days in detention until consular services wake up and supply them with documentation - and then they'd have to get their credit card company to reissue cards without which they can't get around, and then find their kids wherever the system has put them as they'd have been taken away to a different place. No airline employee would venture to get in the way of Homeland and ICE who would have a field day protecting the nation from invasion.
That's a ludicrous fiction. US DHS have a complete set of procedures for such an event (credit card absence is a different matter).
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 19:05
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
In Valencia people without a passport get to sit in the baggage area and served water. On an international flight into the US they'd get carted off to jail as undocumented immigrants / potential terrorists and have to wait for a few days in detention until consular services wake up and supply them with documentation - and then they'd have to get their credit card company to reissue cards without which they can't get around, and then find their kids wherever the system has put them as they'd have been taken away to a different place. No airline employee would venture to get in the way of Homeland and ICE who would have a field day protecting the nation from invasion.

I think this went rather well for an unplanned arrival - I wouldn't have complained: Healthy, on the ground, unhurt, and not in detention, in a safe environment. Europe has its good sides. Any flight you are allowed to walk away from is a good flight.

Edmund
it wasnít exactly an unplanned arrival - we landed in the planned airport at the planned time ! We just didnít have our passports because they were on the plane.

They were very very relaxed about the passports. No complaints there. Just a bit of care towards the elderly and those with small children would have been lovely. When you walk away from an emergency evacuation you donít think ďwow Iím so lucky to have escaped I feel like I want to sit on a carousel for hours without waterĒ. You kind of want to be cared for until your senses come around from the shock and you want someone to help you sort yourself out.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 19:38
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
That's a ludicrous fiction. US DHS have a complete set of procedures for such an event (credit card absence is a different matter).
They will let an alien walk out of the airport without an id? Tell me a funnier joke. Iím certain they have a procedure, itís called undocumented immigrant detention and separation from your kids until they document you, and in case you read the news itís being done a lot.

Iím certain that once they can document you from their own records they will be very friendly and release you,but if itís a large flight and/or an airport without the appropriate personnel I guess you would spend a long time locked up. Iím not even certain you would be allowed consular assistance during this detention as technically speaking you have not entrered the US and have no rights.

Edmund





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Old 8th Aug 2019, 20:04
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
They will let an alien walk out of the airport without an id? Tell me a funnier joke. I’m certain they have a procedure, it’s called undocumented immigrant detention and separation from your kids until they document you, and in case you read the news it’s being done a lot.
You are describing undocumented potential US immigrants trying to bust the system. Please quote from an arriving aircraft, with all on board pre-checked, which has had an emergency evac on the airfield, and let's not ruin this discussion about the Valencia incident with irrelevant nonsenses.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 20:56
  #108 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
You are describing undocumented potential US immigrants trying to bust the system. Please quote from an arriving aircraft, with all on board pre-checked, which has had an emergency evac on the airfield, and let's not ruin this discussion about the Valencia incident with irrelevant nonsenses.
Well, concerning Valencia, I am quite surprised nobody went to hold the passenger's hands, get them some food/comfort. I mean I am genuinely surprised, not offended or outraged, something slipped through the cracks here, I would have assumed the airport management would step in.

Edmund
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 22:02
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Balpa & CAQ

Hi Brian,

Still looking forward to hearing BALPA's latest position on CAQ.

Thanks,

John

-----Original Message-----

From: Brian Strutton <[email protected]>

Sent: 10 June 2019 18:05

To: John Hoyte <[email protected]>

Subject: Your Letter

Hi John

I received your letter dated 6 June which will be carefully considered.

In the meantime can I please make it clear that BALPA does not give permission for the use of the conference paper you refer to or to any other use of BALPAs name or materials.

I will revert back to you in due course.

Best wishes

Brian
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 22:21
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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Straight record, it is highly likely you and your husband have been exposed to Organophosphates from the engine oil. To confirm if it is at a level in your blood stream you could get tested at a clinic in London upon your return called Biolab Medical Unit, an environmental medicine clinic. (I have no financial interest in this establishment by the way).

If you continue to have symptoms, respiratory or neurologically you could potentially claim for Aerotoxic damages against the airline, but itís a long process.

Here are some links to educate yourselves on this issue which aircrew have been campaigning to prevent events like this happening. Airlines can fit filters but are in denial that itís an issue worth spending the £10k per aircraft on. Profits before health it seems. DHL cargo airlines have fitted them on their aircraft so at least the mail and parcels are safe.

https://www.aerotoxic.org/
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 22:31
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
No airline employee would venture to get in the way of Homeland and ICE who would have a field day protecting the nation from invasion.

I think this went rather well for an unplanned arrival - I wouldn't have complained: Healthy, on the ground, unhurt, and not in detention, in a safe environment. Europe has its good sides. Any flight you are allowed to walk away from is a good flight.
Edmund
I'm surprised you did not mention president Trump in your diatribe. You will definitely be inconvenienced if you have no passport with you (as in many other places) but you won't end in detention separated from your kids. Complete nonsense.

And let's try to keep it to the event at hand.
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Old 8th Aug 2019, 23:36
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Niallo View Post
Does anyone know of any type of breathing mask that a passenger could purchase and pack in their carry-on for when the cabin fills with smoke?
I have an device called the Saver Emergency Breath System by Safety iQ. It's not a smoke hood so it doesn't offer any protection for your eyes, but it's designed to prevent smoke inhalation.

I had purchased it for when staying at hotels, but I also carry it on my person when flying as it filters chemical substances and removes carbon monoxide and toxic gases for up to 5 minutes.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 10:09
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by carmel View Post
I have an device called the Saver Emergency Breath System by Safety iQ. It's not a smoke hood so it doesn't offer any protection for your eyes, but it's designed to prevent smoke inhalation.
Just curious - what do you carry to prevent injury in a car accident? The overall lifetime risks are dramatically greater than the risk of smoke inhalation in a hotel or aircraft.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 10:46
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by sabbasolo View Post
Just curious - what do you carry to prevent injury in a car accident? The overall lifetime risks are dramatically greater than the risk of smoke inhalation in a hotel or aircraft.
In a car, seat belts, add in airbags plus, plus, plus. There are companies that require that their employees carry smoke hoods when they travel for business and stays at hotels. This after one lost a number of people in a hotel fire.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 11:27
  #115 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by straightrecord View Post
Just a bit of care towards the elderly and those with small children would have been lovely. When you walk away from an emergency evacuation you donít think ďwow Iím so lucky to have escaped I feel like I want to sit on a carousel for hours without waterĒ. You kind of want to be cared for until your senses come around from the shock and you want someone to help you sort yourself out.
I think we are very grateful to Mr (or Ms) Straightrecord for a first hand regular passenger account of being in an emergency evacuation, and all the collateral that happens (or, in this case, didn't happen). Airline top management commonly rely nowadays just on reports from the local management (such as they are) for how it went, and of course they are not going to write anything negative about themselves.

Alas I'm old enough to remember (probably when Alex Cruz was still in short trousers) the days when BA had a very firm plan should such a serious incident happen to one of their flights. Instantly it was whichever available managers, right up to directors, were first to an aircraft at Heathrow, generally it was to be one of the Shuttle Backup aircraft for immediate availability with crew, a pre-prepared set of stores and supplies loaded, and they were off to the location to supplement the local team. Now that we are all IAG, Madrid headquarters are less than an hour from Valencia. Did anybody from there go down ?

In passing, has Alex Cruz spoken or written personally, not PR department boilerplate word processing, to any of the affected passengers ?
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 13:25
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by edmundronald View Post
In Valencia people without a passport get to sit in the baggage area and served water. On an international flight into the US they'd get carted off to jail as undocumented immigrants / potential terrorists and have to wait for a few days in detention until consular services wake up and supply them with documentation - and then they'd have to get their credit card company to reissue cards without which they can't get around, and then find their kids wherever the system has put them as they'd have been taken away to a different place. No airline employee would venture to get in the way of Homeland and ICE who would have a field day protecting the nation from invasion.

I think this went rather well for an unplanned arrival - I wouldn't have complained: Healthy, on the ground, unhurt, and not in detention, in a safe environment. Europe has its good sides. Any flight you are allowed to walk away from is a good flight.

Edmund
After the BA engine fire in Houston the passengers were accommodated in the BA lounges until reunited with their luggage / passports, but were free to come and go from the lounge. They were then let back into the US with no immigration checks. They were let out of the US the next day even though they no longer had the little white piece of paper you used to have to hand in when you left. This is not anecdotal. I was one of them. It took a while (nearly 6 hours) but that was not surprising under the circumstances.

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Old 9th Aug 2019, 14:34
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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So what was the cause?

Might have missed this but what was the cause of the smoke or vapour? Engine?
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 21:41
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
I think we are very grateful to Mr (or Ms) Straightrecord for a first hand regular passenger account of being in an emergency evacuation, and all the collateral that happens (or, in this case, didn't happen). Airline top management commonly rely nowadays just on reports from the local management (such as they are) for how it went, and of course they are not going to write anything negative about themselves.

Alas I'm old enough to remember (probably when Alex Cruz was still in short trousers) the days when BA had a very firm plan should such a serious incident happen to one of their flights. Instantly it was whichever available managers, right up to directors, were first to an aircraft at Heathrow, generally it was to be one of the Shuttle Backup aircraft for immediate availability with crew, a pre-prepared set of stores and supplies loaded, and they were off to the location to supplement the local team. Now that we are all IAG, Madrid headquarters are less than an hour from Valencia. Did anybody from there go down ?

In passing, has Alex Cruz spoken or written personally, not PR department boilerplate word processing, to any of the affected passengers ?
Hi - Madrid team arrived about 4 hours after the event and although we had gone by then ( we abandoned our luggage and decided to try and locate it the next day) those that stayed said the Madrid team were great and sorted people out with their luggage, accommodation, taxis etc. If the ground staff in Valencia had told us that a proper BA team were on their way we would have stayed and waited for them.

Weíve had a couple of emails that are boilerplate ďwe donít underestimate the impact this has had on you ....Ē and offering us a counselling service. I also just went onto my app and noted weíve been upgraded on the flight home next week !
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 22:20
  #119 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SLF3 View Post
After the BA engine fire in Houston the passengers were accommodated in the BA lounges until reunited with their luggage / passports, but were free to come and go from the lounge. They were then let back into the US with no immigration checks. They were let out of the US the next day even though they no longer had the little white piece of paper you used to have to hand in when you left. This is not anecdotal. I was one of them. It took a while (nearly 6 hours) but that was not surprising under the circumstances.
If I understand rightly you and all these passengers had embarked in the US.
What would be interesting would be the first person story of some passenger whose aircraft crashed on arrival and who lost their IDs in the crash.

Edmund

Last edited by edmundronald; 9th Aug 2019 at 22:43.
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Old 9th Aug 2019, 22:35
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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A replacement engine from RR was flown out in an AN-12 from PIK to Valencia yesterday and apparently returning to PIK with damaged engine for repair.
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