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BA422 smoke incident Valencia

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BA422 smoke incident Valencia

Old 6th Aug 2019, 07:39
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Perhaps there was a good reason why the two exits closest to the left hand engine weren't used?
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 07:57
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by meet and greet View Post
{ have no doubt that the crew of this aircraft handled this emergency in a very professional manner. The evacuation took place, and no lives were lost...that is the important thing. But clearly after the event no one was looking after the needs of the pax,. who would understandably be suffering from shock and would be distressed. It is this aspect of BA's customer care that I am criticizing.
I'm not sure about "clearly", we haven't heard the full story from everybody but we know it's an evacuation, at an BA outstation.

Personally once off the aircraft and in a safe place I'd be expecting the airport resources/the airport authorities to take over from the crew and be responsible for providing medical attention for those genuinely in shock or seriously distressed.

It is also perhaps worth considering that it is entirely possible that the only BA staff on hand were the crew - who I'm sure tried to do their best once off the aircraft but had just been through the wringer themselves..

Last edited by wiggy; 6th Aug 2019 at 08:13.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 08:19
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Buswinker View Post
Rumour it was an engine fire- anyone have any advance on this?

If you're basing that rumour on one of the passengers supposedly quoted on the BBC News website: "Another passenger at Valencia airport told the BBC a member of staff on the ground had said there had been a "fire in the motor" of the aircraft."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49243757

Then I think we can safely discount that one at this point in proceedings.

Looks more like mist than smoke. Once had that on an Air India 737-200ADV - people were getting worried until the cabin crew said it was caused by sudden temperature differences as we descended.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 08:30
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Auxtank no not that one but saw a report in the Spanish press. Was trying to square the report with a bit more technical insight than that provided by el pais 😉
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 08:56
  #25 (permalink)  
 
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In the event of passengers hauling their luggage off with them , the crew manning the slides do have a dilema , you cannot really send them back to put their luggage back or pile up the luggage at the door so I suppose they have to let them go so to speak . There has been the usual suggestions of lockable overheads , all baggage checked into the hold , fines and so on .
What about the following ; Anyone with luggage retrieved during an emergency evacuation will have to give it up and basically forfeit it for 3 months before they are allowed to pass thro back into the terminal . The only thing that they will be allowed to retain is essential medical supplys , everything else is retained and can only be collected / reclaimed at their own expence after the 3 month period has expired . Failure to collect for a duration of one month after this and the goods will be destroyed or handed over for charities. If this is widely publicised and highlighted on the conditions of travel
I am sure the message would soon get through and this stupidity would for the most part cease .
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 09:08
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by CYTN View Post
In the event of passengers hauling their luggage off with them , the crew manning the slides do have a dilema , you cannot really send them back to put their luggage back or pile up the luggage at the door so I suppose they have to let them go so to speak . There has been the usual suggestions of lockable overheads , all baggage checked into the hold , fines and so on .
What about the following ; Anyone with luggage retrieved during an emergency evacuation will have to give it up and basically forfeit it for 3 months before they are allowed to pass thro back into the terminal . The only thing that they will be allowed to retain is essential medical supplys , everything else is retained and can only be collected / reclaimed at their own expence after the 3 month period has expired . Failure to collect for a duration of one month after this and the goods will be destroyed or handed over for charities. If this is widely publicised and highlighted on the conditions of travel
I am sure the message would soon get through and this stupidity would for the most part cease .
So now you have passengers going through their bag and getting essentials out before evacuating?

Or perhaps they just wonít know because they havenít listened..
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 09:16
  #27 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by EcamSurprise View Post


So now you have passengers going through their bag and getting essentials out before evacuating?

Or perhaps they just wonít know because they havenít listened..
I'm sure CYTN means the bags will be confiscated AFTER the evacuation (back in the terminal) and at that point essential medical supplies can be returned before the bag is then impounded.

I don't know if CYTN's plan would deter people - their thinking would be; "I'd rather lose my bag for 3 months than have it burn."
No - what needs to happen is strenuous education, and awareness of just how bloody stupid it is. Recent Russian event statistics provide all the evidence you need that it caused unnecessary deaths.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 09:28
  #28 (permalink)  
 
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Threatening aggressive behaviour with landing and ejection by police doesn't stop that from happening so why would any threat stop someone from taking their bags out during evac.
i think the reality is the "training" doesn't sink in and faced with emergency the shock of the situation doesn't make people think clearly or to reasoning.
The best thing the cabin crew can do is keep the exit clear once the passenger has brought their belongings to the door. So the bag had to go out at that point.

This argument will roll and roll like the enormous "hand luggage" but unless your faced with the emergency yourself you won't know what you'd do.

It's hard enough getting people to board the aircraft. The amount of times I've been sat at the front of the plane watching people board. Stop at row 1. then look at their ticket. Read it out loud. 27f. Then say something like is that at the back of the plane looking at row 4 thinking it's somewhere near there....
its no wonder the elements of the safety briefing fall on deaf ears.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 09:49
  #29 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by zukini View Post
... I've been sat at the front of the plane watching people board. Stop at row 1. then look at their ticket. Read it out loud. 27f. Then say something like is that at the back of the plane looking at row 4 thinking it's somewhere near there..
If you catch a train you get a display telling you where your seat is. Should there be something similar on the boarding screen. Given that infrequent travelers will probably have a printing boarding pass of some sort, why not clearly mark the position of the seat on a layout of the plane. You might also want to make it clear "How to read your boarding card" .

The first time my father flew, he was told they would fly over the alps. The plane was just above the cloud at one point with wisps of vapour visible at the window. He was terrified! He thought the plane was so low over the mountains that they were skimming the snow.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 10:37
  #30 (permalink)  
 
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I think that so many of you are missing the point. If an aircraft suffers from smoke, fumes, mist or and other unannounced substance in the air then carry out the SMOKE AND FUMES Emergency drill.

If the front end put on their masks and declared an Emergency then why was that not carried out in the cabin. I would rather breath Oxygen for ten minutes as a precaution than be killed by some poisonous particles in the cabin air conditioning.

Saying that because no one was injured the cabin crew performed their job correctly is ridiculous.

I am assuming that the whole crew has been grounded pending a full investigation by BA and if need be by the CAA?
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 11:27
  #31 (permalink)  
 
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Fairly sensible interviewee on BBC just said they were descending, there was a "bang" (undercarriage lowering?) and then the mist started to enter the cabin. Does that narrow down possible causes?
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 11:28
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by A340Yumyum View Post



And the the prize for the most stupid person on this thread goes to...........
And the prize for the rudest person on this thread goes to you.

Easy to see why the two are similar for the reasons given.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 11:57
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Possibly people were not aware that they will face a slide on the way out or that this was still formally considered to be some emergency? If people misbehave like that I'd say they must be instructed differently and not threatened afterwards. The plan must be made for panic situations like the style and volume of emergency announcements already is. Actually remote locking the bins might help.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 12:19
  #34 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dominator2 View Post
I think that so many of you are missing the point. If an aircraft suffers from smoke, fumes, mist or and other unannounced substance in the air then carry out the SMOKE AND FUMES Emergency drill.

If the front end put on their masks and declared an Emergency then why was that not carried out in the cabin. I would rather breath Oxygen for ten minutes as a precaution than be killed by some poisonous particles in the cabin air conditioning.

Saying that because no one was injured the cabin crew performed their job correctly is ridiculous.

I am assuming that the whole crew has been grounded pending a full investigation by BA and if need be by the CAA?
Really? Would be interested to know of any SMOKE AND FUMES Emergency drill that requires masked to be dropped for the cabin.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 12:21
  #35 (permalink)  
 
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Airlines want to make all their baggage loaders redundant so they discourage their passengers from bringing checked baggage on by: 1) promising generous cabin bag allowances and 2) charging for hold baggage. This finds a great degree of success with the punters who are generally scared of checked baggage getting lost and are never shy of saving $1.

Result: Already dense cabins are overloaded with full overheads and bags under every seat. Ground staff are obliged to take baggage away from passengers as it will not all fit into the cabin... to be loaded into the hold by the loaders who now remain. The boarding process takes twice as long and becomes more labour intensive. 100% of evacuations recently have seen passengers struggling towards slides with their wheelie bags. If we have another Airtours 737 fire in all likelihood nobody will get out.

Who thought this was a good idea? Why did the Authority approve it?


@Dominator2..... Do you know nothing about commercial aircraft? Passenger oxygen masks mix chemically generated oxygen with ambient air to provide enough oxygen to sustain consciousness during an emergency descent. In this case the ambient air contains smoke - So you will still be breathing smoke. That's why they are never used deployed such situations.
P.S. Locking overhead lockers remotely only solves half the problem. What about all the baggage under the seats?

Last edited by Magplug; 6th Aug 2019 at 12:29. Reason: typo!
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 12:31
  #36 (permalink)  
 
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In the meanwhile there are several vids on YT etc.
Seems no one had breathing problems e.g. pax were talking even laughing.
Condensation?
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 12:47
  #37 (permalink)  
 
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Magplug,

My Mistake. In the military aircraft that I flew that were similar to commercial aircraft the rear crew had oxygen masks which could provide 100% oxygen if required.

If the press reports concerning this incident are true it would still appear that the BA crew were lacking in providing passengers information as to what was happening. If the front end are busy I assume that it falls to the Cabin Service Manager (or equivalent) to inform the passengers?

Remote locking lockers and no bags under seats is the answer but that will never happen. Why should Flight Safety be allowed to over-ride commercial pressures?
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 13:12
  #38 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Dominator2 View Post
Magplug, If the front end are busy I assume that it falls to the Cabin Service Manager (or equivalent) to inform the passengers?
That requires the Cabin crew knowing exactly why the "front end" are busy ....

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Old 6th Aug 2019, 13:17
  #39 (permalink)  
 
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BBC News talking about "acrid smoke" would suggest more than just condensation, though it's not clear who they were quoting.
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Old 6th Aug 2019, 13:22
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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Making a passenger address from the Flight Deck whilst wearing a Smoke Mask not impossible but the 'Darth Vader' type audio is hardly reassuring , probably better to delegate and focus on getting Aircraft on ground whilst avoiding hills around Valencia.
Cabin Crew have difficult dilemma, Smoke Mask generally the best idea but is does rather isolate you and makes communication difficult.
Not a nice situation to find yourself in but a successful outcome.
Real events are never perfect in their execution.
Any long term fume effects need to be considered.
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